Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

Most of us will only be using 80% or less of the chip once we get it dialed into where we want it. Some more blue, others more white, etc.

I was under the impression that we were ordering a chip that could be tuned to a WIDE range of color renderings so that it had a broad appeal, not a "pre tuned" chip designed to be run at 100% (or near) for each color. I will buy 6 freakin chips (instead of 2) to get the OUTPUT intensity I need. My concern is color rendering and appeal/versatility. I am trying to avoid the disco effect by using point sources and still have a fixture that can be tuned to any of a million colors and output levels.


Respectfully (again), I don't think we are all on the same page here. Some of us want a tuneable chip as I describe above and some of you want a pre-tuned chip that meets your ideal idea of output.

At this point count me out, too many opinions and many of them contrary to my needs. No disrespect to anybody, but I have seen too many fixtures that people "love" that to me look like crap. If it can't be tuned over a broad range, then I don't want it.

I may try one of whatever you end up deciding on (and it may be wonderful) but my desire is to have a fixture that can be color tuned throughout the day from pee yellow to smurf blue. Sunrise--high noon--sunset and anything in between I desire.
 
Just received an answer from the manufacturer regarding the color rendering across the different wattages and brands:

Although the multichip manufacturer whose using identical phosphors but our 10W and 100W is difference brand and wave length thus the color could not be same. For example the 100W(EPISTAR chips)which the base wave length is 445-455nm but 10W(EPILEDS chips) is configure with 460-470nm so the 10W panel would be appears somemore yellowish.
Click to expand...
 
The question is very easy. We - who have negative experiences with 6500 K can not (if they are in a chip) turn of them because in such case we surly get the blue illness (a ratio 3:1) With 10 000 and 16 000 K can those that do not want to much blue (as my self) easy turn down the blues and get exactly the colors he or she want. This is based on my experiences with this type of chip´s and not and not on guesswork.

The AC-RC 10 000 K and 16 000 K gives enough of different colors so no one will be washed out. I have provide a lot of pictures of my fishes in this thread and no one has complain over bad colors. The pictures has been taken without flash and during different ratois of blue and high Kelvin white.

I do not understand the way of argue - the people that want 6 500 K in the chip argue from experiences with 3 watts chip, cree and others. Me that do not want any 6 500 K in my chip argue from the experiences with multichips and from the same vendor that will suply the "super" chip with LED.

I do not like blue looking aquariums but i fully understand the blue wavelenghts biological importance -that was the reason why I first (1.6 year ago) began to do experiment with AC-RC high Kelvin chip. I have not use the normal two colors multichips because it gives to much of blue for my taste. I use white and blue indvidual chips and group them so I avoid disco.

Now have Ron done an excellent job and for the first time I can see that it is a chanse for a real breakthrough according to LED and reef aquaristic. With the option A there is a possibility to get exact that rendering and light temperature that different persons want because you can manage every leg seperatly. The option A is also more or less in a biologicalt point of view - spot on.

To use 6 500 K in this chip will lead to the use of to much blue power to take out the yellow tint from 6 500 K so the light will be too blue for me and there is no major biological importance with the extra intensity of colors in the 470 - 660 nm range a 6 500 K based chip will give compared with that amunt of this wavelenghts an AC-RC chip in 10 to 16 000 K gives.

If you do not like the idea (with multichip or high K temperature) nobody force you to buy. The intellectual work with a basic idea, the study of technical ability and contact with potential supplier is made in this thread and reported quite openly and it is only just to collect people that has the same beliving and order.

If we do not collect an order of 50 chip of the A version (or without 6 500 K) - thats ok but sad because we miss an opurtunity. I will go further with my experiments and instead base them on clusters an different lenses. But I will not put a 6 500 K chip in my constructions - I have been on that road (both according cree and AC-RC chip) and I did not like the result.

BeanAnimal wrote:
Some of us want a tuneable chip as I describe above and some of you want a pre-tuned chip that meets your ideal idea of output.
Click to expand...

According to my experiences with both epiled and epistar based chip from AC-RC the 10 000 t0 16 000 K range gives just this - a totaly tuneable chip.

What I see from the figures Ron has given - the "super" chip will no be based on epistar (no overdriving)

Sincerely Lasse
 
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Bean,
Im going to order a 10K and 14K Epistar 20 Watt LED from them. Would you still be interested in taking a look? Otherwise I will start hunting for a bench top power supply. I think seeing two representative whites from them will make it pretty clear which combinations may work for us without committing to a number of these multichips. I for one would use 4 for my display just to reduce shadowing, whether that meant significantly underpowering them or not, and would need 1-2 for my frag tank. I don't know that I really need to test the blue in person, still waffling on that.

LasseF, I am in no way discounting your experience. I merely know how personal aesthetics are. I have heard many times that people didn't feel their colors were washed out when I felt they were. I also will not base lighting decisions off a photograph on the Internet. I have seen quite a few multichip and panel fixtures. Both Cree and others. Orphek, Kessil, Ecotech, Ecoxotic, ReefTech, AI. I have seen many fixtures. I do not have experience with these specific LEDs so I will order some to test and I mat find you are correct. I am however skeptical based on my own experiences. I have no problem admitting that.
 
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The multichips that we are voting on..are they the ones that can be ran at 250watts or just 100watts? I read where we will get 30 % off. Off of what price? What will happen if we get the order of 50 and something happens to one and we need another? Is ac-rc going to have more if we need/want more?
 
Ron thanks for doing all this work! I will take a very very small mention for this post
RiddleEagle18 said:
Even better if he can make 2 connections allowing the Blues/UV and the Whites to be run on separate controllers but all mounted on the same chip.
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:lmao:

You guy have taken it to a new level though. These multichips are the future of reef lighting.

I think I would prefer this setup

20 10k
15 445 5 420
20 15k
15 455 5 420
20 10k

But that may not be possible.

If I had to chose one of the options you guys have going

My 1st option:
1) 20 x 10000K
2) 20 x 455nm
3) 20 x 445nm
4) 10 x 420nm, 10 x 430nm
5) 20 x 15000K
 
I will order some of those heatsinks too if he makes that happen soon. Gives it a somewhat finished look for guys like me without many DIY skills.
 
Lassef said:
The question is very easy. We - who have negative experiences with 6500 K can not (if they are in a chip) turn of them because in such case we surly get the blue illness (a ratio 3:1) With 10 000 and 16 000 K can those that do not want to much blue (as my self) easy turn down the blues and get exactly the colors he or she want.

Sincerely Lasse
Click to expand...

Why would you want a white strip with a ton of blue in it (15000k) if you don't like a lot of blue, when the chip already has 1:1 in blue wavelengths and Actinic covered discretely? You would almost have to shut off a row of 455nm to get the look you like. Mixing the whites as 10k and 6500k would keep that 455nm channel running without the need to turn it down so much and produce nearly the same effect. The benefit of extra spectrum is added, which cannot be reproduced by more 10k or 15k leds, and could be dialed down at will. Whether you think the extra spectrum is useful or not for color or coral is a matter of opinion. You're contradicting yourself a bit.

Even though they are from a different company, you can see tons of blue from just my 10-14k Epistars and rb in the algae pic. Its not truly accurate to compare, but its a closer rendition than not having any other source at all to look at.

There are differing opinions, and there is nothing wrong with that. I happen to be in the same line of thinking with Jerpa and Bean, but that doesn't mean anyone is right or wrong. To think one way is the "right and only way" to go is a bit insulting and presumptuous.

I did see your pics of your tank, and I would not be happy with the way your tank looks for my tank. It doesn't mean your tank looks bad at all, it means we have different tastes.

I hope we can get 100 chips, because I would love to test both options. Even with the same test results or results favoring a chip, one could still like one chip over the other. Either way, I'm glad Ron is helping put this together for us, and I fully support it.
 
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bhazard451 said:
Why would you want a white strip with a ton of blue in it (15000k) if you don't like a lot of blue, when the chip already has 1:1 in blue wavelengths and Actinic covered discretely?
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Have you ever seen a 15000K chip from AC-RC? I do not think you know what you are talking about. Here is a 20 000 K from AC-RC - where do you see the toons of blue - this is white for me.

attachment.php



Compare with the daylight picture

attachment.php



The blue you se ner the lightsource is blue acrylic

Sincerely Lasse
 
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Lassef said:
Have you ever seen a 15000K chip from AC-RC? I do not think you know what you are talking about. Here is a 20 000 K from AC-RC - where do you see the toons of blue - this is white for me.
Click to expand...

That does nothing in showing me how it would look in a multichip alongside 1:1 royal blue, on your wood floor, with a camera. The fact it isn't somewhat yellow means yes, there is plenty of blue in it. It also goes to show the 20000k label means nothing. If you want to use basic math skills, some blue + more blue added alongside it = lots of blue.

Your insults are starting to get really tiring. It does nothing to promote the discussion here. I'm not looking to start an argument, but I will unload on you if you continue with the insults.
 
In hopes that this thread stays open we should keep the discourse civil. No one needs to convince anyone else what color that individual will like over their aquarium. Hopefully in the next few weeks I will have a 6500K, 10000K and 14000K in front of me. I will then have a better grasp on what one of these multichip arrays will look like and if it will be suitable for me. If I've missed the boat by then I will just buy at the regular price. Arguing with pictures over the internet is pointless. I haven't seen the LEDs and you have no idea what I want my tank to look like. We can argue facts but I see nothing productive from arguing opinions.
 
Which of these will work for a 50w ??

Model BG-50-12 BG-50-24
DC output voltage 12V 24V
Output voltage error ±1% ±1%
Rated output current 4.2A 2.1A
Output current rage 0-4.2A 0-2.1A
Wave and noise 100mVp-p 100mVp-p
Inlet stability ±0.5% ±0.5%
Load stability ±0.5% ±0.5%
DC output power 50W 50W
Efficiency 80% 82%
 
If this thread is closed it will be due to the AC-RC commercial and "group buy", not over a white vs. blue argument.

I can't comment on other people's aesthetic preferences, but I will say that the three blue chips being considered here are all at the less visible end of the spectrum.

I like the 480nm "blue" chip because it is more white & bright. The best Windex bang for the buck is out of 465nm royal blues. You need fewer low nm (blue) chips when you use blues at the higher end of the spectrum (465-480). Of course a broad spectrum of blue is ideal, and I'm not saying your choices are not beneficial for coral growth and pigmentation, they just won't be as "blue" to the human eye as some are predicting.

The 15,000k white has a slight purple/pink tinge to it when run with blues, even when driven on separate channels. Your proposed mix may seem heavy in the blue spectrum on paper, but considering the low nm aspect of them, they will be overpowered by the whites.

Buying 100 multichips without testing the spectral mix first is risky to say the least. My other suggestion would be to select a multichip and matching drivers that will give you room to dim individual colour channels 50% without compromising minimum PAR values. In other words, if your tank needs 100w multichips for intensity, you can't start dimming it down to 50% to get the spectrum you want.

I would also like to offer a caveat with regard to fitting five individual colour channels on one multichip unless it is made on the much larger 300w frame. The blues you are considering are very close together so there is no need for individual colour control. If you aren't using reds, then you only need two channels. This will give you a dawn/dusk sequence of white & blue exclusivity.
 
jerpa said:
In hopes that this thread stays open we should keep the discourse civil. No one needs to convince anyone else what color that individual will like over their aquarium. Hopefully in the next few weeks I will have a 6500K, 10000K and 14000K in front of me. I will then have a better grasp on what one of these multichip arrays will look like and if it will be suitable for me. If I've missed the boat by then I will just buy at the regular price. Arguing with pictures over the internet is pointless. I haven't seen the LEDs and you have no idea what I want my tank to look like. We can argue facts but I see nothing productive from arguing opinions.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Lassef said:
Have you ever seen a 15000K chip from AC-RC? I do not think you know what you are talking about. Here is a 20 000 K from AC-RC - where do you see the toons of blue - this is white for me.



Compare with the daylight picture



The blue you se ner the lightsource is blue acrylic

Sincerely Lasse
Click to expand...


Having two seperate pictures does not realy give anyone a true confident comparison. The only true way would be to have these LED's in the same picture frame but seperated so the light from one would not effect the light from another. If you simply take seperate photos most digital cameras will automaticly correct for the color balance.

Now in reality you can take probably a dozen different brands of LED's that are rated at the the same color temperature and get extremly different results. The difference between a 14,000K and a 20,000K light source is so close that manufacturer specs will easily overlap these values. So it is very possibe to get a 14,000K LED from manufaturer A that is Bluer than a 20,000K LED from another manufacturer.

Claiming a 20,000K light source is not blue to me only means that the light source is not truely a 20,000K light source. The truest White light is in the 8,000K too 10,000K range. Anything above 10,000 K will move the spectrum more to the blue side as the rating increases. There is very fine line from the infinity point where all the light is blue and 20,000K. Simularly anything under 8,000K will move the spectrum to the red side. However there is much wider difference between a 1,000K light source and a 0 K light Source where there is no detectable Blue or Green Light.

Another thing to keep in mind is that your eyes will automaticly adjust to different color temperatures. If your in a room with all 3,200 K incadescent light bulbs it will appear to you that is all white light, Simularly if you go to room with all 12,000K floresent light it will pappear to you as all white light. But if you put the two light sources into the same room you will see the 3,200K light as Orange light and the 12,000K light as Blue light.
 
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