Lassef, thanks! I'll await Maglofster's comment. There are so many variables here, that I understand there isn't really a canned answer to all questions!
Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build
- Thread starter maglofster
- Start date
Lassef, thanks! I'll await Maglofster's comment. There are so many variables here, that I understand there isn't really a canned answer to all questions!
J'canReefMan
New member
Thanks,
Do you think 2 50W 10K plus 4 10W Royal Blues will be enough for a 30" x 22" X 20" tank?
Lassef
Member
I have looked at Mean Wells specification. You can adjust the voltage with a potentiometer between 43.2 ~ 52.8V. The overvoltage protection is triggered between 54-60 V. I measured the FV on my chip to about 9 V. You are right on the border so I do not know. Probably you can do it by going down a bit to on the curent but then lose in effect. I would connected them into two loops (3 and 3) up in the ramp and serially connected the loops down at the driver and tried if it works with one driver. Would it not work, it's easy to purchase a second drive and run the loops for themselves with their own power. Then you would be able to get a little more effect from the chip
Sincerely Lasse
Hi Lasse and Maglofster,
Im now in my final design stage and i will be using 20pcs of 10watters and Meanwell ELN-60-48D driver (5 leds in a series per driver)
I will be using two heatsinks (10pcs per heatsink), heatsink size is 48(l)x6(w)x2-3(h) - i will try and post a picture later on (this heatsink is free from work - offcuts)
my tank dimension is 48(l)x30(w)x20(h) with mixed reef, with the sps side 1-2pcs of acropora but the rest are montipora, poccilopora, millipora and stylophora
Can you please tell me your opinion regarding the white light and blue light:
white light - 10k chip and 16k chip or get a 10k-15k chip
Royal Blue - I have seen 452-455nm, 455-465nm, 455-460nm and 445-450nm
too many royal blues to choose from???
What i do know is:
Chlorophyllb peak is at 450nm(primary) 650nm(secondary)
B-Carotene peak is at 445nm(primary) and 480nm(secondary)
I will also add UV at a later stage (seperate driver and maybe use 3watts led)
In regards to a hybrid chip with 3 chips 10k-15k (which makes it approximately 3.33watts) and 6 chips royal blue 450-460nm (and approximately 6.66watts) - wouldnt this type of chip at this wattage (10W) is not as effective as the full 10Watts chip?
Sorry too many questions.
Thanks
George
Im now in my final design stage and i will be using 20pcs of 10watters and Meanwell ELN-60-48D driver (5 leds in a series per driver)
I will be using two heatsinks (10pcs per heatsink), heatsink size is 48(l)x6(w)x2-3(h) - i will try and post a picture later on (this heatsink is free from work - offcuts)
my tank dimension is 48(l)x30(w)x20(h) with mixed reef, with the sps side 1-2pcs of acropora but the rest are montipora, poccilopora, millipora and stylophora
Can you please tell me your opinion regarding the white light and blue light:
white light - 10k chip and 16k chip or get a 10k-15k chip
Royal Blue - I have seen 452-455nm, 455-465nm, 455-460nm and 445-450nm
too many royal blues to choose from???
What i do know is:
Chlorophyllb peak is at 450nm(primary) 650nm(secondary)
B-Carotene peak is at 445nm(primary) and 480nm(secondary)
I will also add UV at a later stage (seperate driver and maybe use 3watts led)
In regards to a hybrid chip with 3 chips 10k-15k (which makes it approximately 3.33watts) and 6 chips royal blue 450-460nm (and approximately 6.66watts) - wouldnt this type of chip at this wattage (10W) is not as effective as the full 10Watts chip?
Sorry too many questions.
Thanks
George
Lassef
Member
@ GY2202
The problem for me is that I do not have much experience in LED that are verifiable in a good way but I have in my designs went on feeling and common sense (and some knowledge of photosynthesis and light conditions in the sea). This with light color is also one personal matter of taste, some like the blue light - some do not. I have chosen to work with white LED of high Kelvin temperatures (10, 16 and 20 000 K). This means that there is a significant blue peak already in the white chips, compared to the you have chosen chip at 6500K. Therefore, I have used a distribution of 2 white to 1 Royal Blue chip. I have also chosen to work without lenses on my head lights.
Nothing says this is the right choice for everyone but it has suited me.
My opinion is many corals do not need so much red wavelengths for photosynthesis like plants on land and plant in shallow freshwater areas. At about 5 meters deep in the sea, the red wavelengths are basically already filtered out. The red wavelengths are therefore for me only an aesthetic issue to see reflected red colors of fish and other animals. In my eyes I achieve that goal with the selection of the ratio to white and blue chip and my choice of color temperatures.
As regards the various Royal Blue, I've only been using RB with wavelengths around 455 nm because there were others at that time. Today I had in trying to get hold of all wavelengths from about 400 to 460 nm with most chip around 445-455 nm and a few around 400-420 nm.
Hybrids provide a bit to blue light for me (ratio 2 RB: 1 white) but where is all a matter of taste I think.
UV or actually 400-420 nm is on my wish list too and I am preparing a ramp to one of my aquariums (RSM 130) at these wavelengths as well.
@ J'canReefMan: Yes, but I think it may be too strong. I would not have lenses of the 50 watts . I would also try to get dimmable drivers
Sincerely Lasse
The problem for me is that I do not have much experience in LED that are verifiable in a good way but I have in my designs went on feeling and common sense (and some knowledge of photosynthesis and light conditions in the sea). This with light color is also one personal matter of taste, some like the blue light - some do not. I have chosen to work with white LED of high Kelvin temperatures (10, 16 and 20 000 K). This means that there is a significant blue peak already in the white chips, compared to the you have chosen chip at 6500K. Therefore, I have used a distribution of 2 white to 1 Royal Blue chip. I have also chosen to work without lenses on my head lights.
Nothing says this is the right choice for everyone but it has suited me.
My opinion is many corals do not need so much red wavelengths for photosynthesis like plants on land and plant in shallow freshwater areas. At about 5 meters deep in the sea, the red wavelengths are basically already filtered out. The red wavelengths are therefore for me only an aesthetic issue to see reflected red colors of fish and other animals. In my eyes I achieve that goal with the selection of the ratio to white and blue chip and my choice of color temperatures.
As regards the various Royal Blue, I've only been using RB with wavelengths around 455 nm because there were others at that time. Today I had in trying to get hold of all wavelengths from about 400 to 460 nm with most chip around 445-455 nm and a few around 400-420 nm.
Hybrids provide a bit to blue light for me (ratio 2 RB: 1 white) but where is all a matter of taste I think.
UV or actually 400-420 nm is on my wish list too and I am preparing a ramp to one of my aquariums (RSM 130) at these wavelengths as well.
@ J'canReefMan: Yes, but I think it may be too strong. I would not have lenses of the 50 watts . I would also try to get dimmable drivers
Sincerely Lasse
J'canReefMan
New member
Dimmable drivers was the plan thanks
maglofster
New member
My cube is 24" deep, I'm running two 100W without lenses. The light penetrates all the way to the bottom. If you´re mostly going to go for softies I think you will be allright with 3x100W without lenses. If you need more focused light you can always add lenses later on.
J'canReefMan
New member
Are the Royal Blue and Cool white LEDs on the Hybrid chips on different circuits?
Lassef
Member
matt_shanahan
New member
Cannot wait to start this DIY build I have a 66x30x30 this could be the answer to getting to the bottom of the tank! You have a PM Maglofster!
Haxer
Member
If one is going for the "radium" type look, Lassef do you feel the 20,000 k 100w led's are enough or do they need supplimentation ? I.e 20w Blue leds around the 100W. Or is it better to get the "super-actinic" led's ac-rc sells? I am also looking at their 420nm blue 20w leds. I currently have a 220 gallon deep tank. 72X24x28 " I run 3 250 watt Radium MH bulbs. I want the same look, just minus the heat...
Tmoriarty
New member
I am sure you are swamped with PM's at this point but I figure I would ask some questions as well. First I will define the tank I am building a fixture for...
65x24x30 tank (30inches deep)
I want to build a fixture that is easily moveable and efficient, with some ability to modify the color temprature in the tank. Building LED fixtures is new to me and indeed quite complicated. I considered the idea of going with 3 100w multi chips, but realize that with this I will lose the ability to change the lighting color within the tank. A second thought was to create 3 seperate fixtures (like pendants) each one would have 5 20w multi chips. I would like to combine some colors within these pendants and attach them to a controller that would allow me to change each multi chips output (dimmable). This way If I wanted more or less white or blue light I could simply adjust the multi chip to get the color I want. I also considered doing 3 50w multichips per fixture if it would be easier to implement. I am currently working with a Aluminum company to see if they can make me custom heatsinks for this application.
Another question I have is in the overdrive ability of the chips. You said in one of your posts that the 100w multichips are capable of pushing 250w's (2.5w per led), Is it safe to assume that the 10/20/50w multi chips are capable of this same overdrive. Is it possible to push a 50w multi chip to 150w's? I ask this because If The pendants are used in the way I would like I should be able to build Lights that can be reproduced If i decide to get a longer tank in the future. Also if the 50w chips can be overdriven to 150w's, then I could take a 3x50w fixture and overdrive it to 450w's total to reach a deeper tank more efficiently.
Also How do you set the wattage each bulb in a chip will run at (im assuming the driver controls this through a potentiometer???). Like I said im new to LED builds but you obviously know what you are doing. Your guide is excellent but just doesnt work exactlly like I need (it doesnt cover using a driver to dim the bulbs or adjust individual multichips).
65x24x30 tank (30inches deep)
I want to build a fixture that is easily moveable and efficient, with some ability to modify the color temprature in the tank. Building LED fixtures is new to me and indeed quite complicated. I considered the idea of going with 3 100w multi chips, but realize that with this I will lose the ability to change the lighting color within the tank. A second thought was to create 3 seperate fixtures (like pendants) each one would have 5 20w multi chips. I would like to combine some colors within these pendants and attach them to a controller that would allow me to change each multi chips output (dimmable). This way If I wanted more or less white or blue light I could simply adjust the multi chip to get the color I want. I also considered doing 3 50w multichips per fixture if it would be easier to implement. I am currently working with a Aluminum company to see if they can make me custom heatsinks for this application.
Another question I have is in the overdrive ability of the chips. You said in one of your posts that the 100w multichips are capable of pushing 250w's (2.5w per led), Is it safe to assume that the 10/20/50w multi chips are capable of this same overdrive. Is it possible to push a 50w multi chip to 150w's? I ask this because If The pendants are used in the way I would like I should be able to build Lights that can be reproduced If i decide to get a longer tank in the future. Also if the 50w chips can be overdriven to 150w's, then I could take a 3x50w fixture and overdrive it to 450w's total to reach a deeper tank more efficiently.
Also How do you set the wattage each bulb in a chip will run at (im assuming the driver controls this through a potentiometer???). Like I said im new to LED builds but you obviously know what you are doing. Your guide is excellent but just doesnt work exactlly like I need (it doesnt cover using a driver to dim the bulbs or adjust individual multichips).
Lassef
Member
It is difficult to answer this question, because how we perceive light and light temperatures are very personal. The advantage of LEDs is that with the help of dimming can adjust the light if you have enough different chip, and many drivers. Generally you do not have the possibility of "super actnic" because the colors are on the same circuit. In general I would say that mixing different chip and control them individually gives the best fit to individual needs.
Sincerely Lasse
Lassef
Member
First to the issue of "overdrive". There are only a few chips that can run at higher rates. It is usually in the specification. These chips are actually consists of a series of 2.5 watt LED, but they choose to recommend that they run as the normal one-watt LED. Why they choose to run the 2.5 watt LED as 1 watt LED depends on the durability and heat dissipation (and to a certain degree light output per watt)
Dimming of high power LED is normally done with a method called PWM (Pulse Widht Modulation I think) and requires special drivers. It is hard to come by these higher wattage. Mean Well have a few that might fit but I have not tried. For lower wattage so have a guy here in Sweden, designed a card where you can have between 1 to 2 pcs 10 watts or 20 watts per drive (or 2 pieces parallel drivers for 20 watts). You can have up to 64 individually controlled circuits with his design. Otherwise you have to try to find drivers adapted to each chip or set of chips you want manage.
Your aquarium is deep and if you want stony corals to thrive on the bottom you probably need to use 100 watt chip (or "overdrive" chips) with lenses to penetrate deep down. If you imagine a base of powerful chip for growth (and preferably dimmable) and a number of individually managed smaller chip (actually 10 or 20 watt chip with so many variations you can find of the blue and white LEDs) to control the light temperature, I think you can build a ramp that fits your needs.
Sincerely Lasse
Lasse,
Do you have a link or specification for the driver that you mentioned?
Thanks
George
Do you have a link or specification for the driver that you mentioned?
Thanks
George
Lassef
Member
I think this will work with the different 100 watts chip, HLG-185-36b, but I have not tested it
Sincerely Lasse
Sincerely Lasse
Landsailor
New member
Well, this is the other end of the spectrum from 100W chips, but my two 10W LEDs and accessories arrived. From AC-RC, I bought a Chargery CP-A1 10W driver, 10W heatsink, and 20K & Super Actinic 10W chips.
Here are some photos I took last night:
https://plus.google.com/photos/1061...ms/5727048882624983857?authkey=CK_Xmr660qv8Mw
They should be self explanatory. I set the camera to manual to try to have the same exposure in the same shots for accurate comparison, but one is overexposed.
With some optics, the light would be even more concentrated. Based on the last picture (granted, it's empty, but still...), I think that five or six of the 20K 10W chips along with blue supplementation would cover a 125 well. Heck, even ten of them would only be about $100 for the LEDs.
Wow!
Here are some photos I took last night:
https://plus.google.com/photos/1061...ms/5727048882624983857?authkey=CK_Xmr660qv8Mw
They should be self explanatory. I set the camera to manual to try to have the same exposure in the same shots for accurate comparison, but one is overexposed.
With some optics, the light would be even more concentrated. Based on the last picture (granted, it's empty, but still...), I think that five or six of the 20K 10W chips along with blue supplementation would cover a 125 well. Heck, even ten of them would only be about $100 for the LEDs.
Wow!
Tmoriarty
New member
I looked more at the supplies they have, it would seem that they do have 50w chips that are actually rated at around 127w max. 3 of this chips combined could push around 400w if needed. The next issue of these is optics. I have started laying out a schmeatic for the lights and feel that 3 50w's could work well. The center would have a decent size fan that would push air downward through the case to allow for cooling of the heatsink. I would like to incorporate any drivers into the design as to see one finished looking light, with controls on the front side to adjust the lights. How well do you think the lights would combine (not disco band) if they were around 3 inches apart, the two on the front of the fixture would be combo lights with the light in the back beign pure actinic. The pendant would require two drivers, one for the two 50w' chips in the front and one for the blue 50w in the back. I would require two dimmable switches on the front of the fixture to turn the lights down or off.
If I buy drivers with PWM, can I use a controller (reefkeeper light) to dimm the lights for sunrise/sunset effects? I would like the ability to set the max level on the front of the fixture yet have the sunrise/sunset effects controlled through my controller.
Another option is to build/buy a controller for each individual fixture but this option would for sure be more costly than I want.
For reference for people who are looking, the 50w chips that you can overdrive to 127w are 85 dollars each instead of the 50 dollars the regular 50w chips cost. the most cost effective solution is still to use the 100w chips.
