Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[TropTrea]

I did ask the question in the lighting forum and got some replies, but I think you guys here might be able to help much more.

This is an existing 75x20x12 frag tank (water level is actually about 10"). That's 190x50x30cm for Europeans with water level at 25cm. Does anyone have an estimate on how many hybrid LEDs would be needed to light this for SPS corals?

We are thinking about using these LEDs: http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPISTAR-20W-Super-Actinic-Blue-Hybrid-Led-Panel-Aquarium-/220990452654

Thanks a lot!

With a tank this shallow the problem is keeping the LED's close enough together so you have good overlap and without having to raise the light so high that you start loosing there effecency in the air. Remember that from a single point source of light if you get a PAr of 300 at 6 inches you will have a Par of 150 at 12 inches and a Par of 75 at 24". For this reason I would go with Multiple LED's at lower wattage rather than few LED's at a higher wattage.

The 20 Watt Super Atinic you noted I think will give you a very Blue look. They are listed at being basicly 9 LED's running at 2.12 Watts each. Three of the LED's are 20,500K which already is a very blueish white, and the other six are 453 nm Royal Blues. With 20,000K Whites I would prefer more whites than Royal Blues for appearance purposes.

The real determination for your needs is how high you want to locate the LED's above your tank. I personly would go with 5 Watt LED's like the CREE XP series putting them about 6" to 8" above the water surface. If you want to go up to the 8" to 12" above the surface then I would consider going up to 10 watts and if you go 12" to 18" over the surface I'd consider using up to 20 Watt LED's. But also keep in mind that the higher the put to lights the more total wattage you will need.

 

[TropTrea]

I'm curious as to whether anyone here (Original poster?) can recommend a piece of hardware that would allow me to control [preferably through a GUI based software application] both the time (on/off) AND sequential dimming of several channels?

the goal would be to program an array of multichips to simulate spectral and intensity changes throughout the day (i.e. 0600-0900hrs: royal blue channel sequencing from X current [wattage? amperage? i suck at electrical, sorry] to Y current [simulate dawn into morning]; 0800-1200hrs: 20000k [maybe also a 10000K] channel sequencing from X current to Y current [simulate morning-daytime transition]; 1200-1600hrs: 20000K channel sequencing from Y current back down to X current [simulate afternoon transition to evening]; 1600-2000hrs: Royal blue channel sequencing from Y current back down to X current [simulate evening into night]) as well as an occasional cloudcover simulation. I know this sounds complicated, but between 7 billion people, I'm sure someone has figured out how to do it easily. I KNOW the LED's have the capacity to be controlled as such.

I've more or less wrapped my head around the minimalist construction aspects (largely thanks to this thread) but if i'm going to use such capable lighting elements, i'd love to use them to their full potential of natural condition simulation.

Thanks again for a great thread.

For what you mentioning you can go extremly minimalistic. What I have going are actualy 3 seperat timers each costing under $20.00. I have on timer that turns on 24 watts of Royal Blue LED's for predawn to post Dusk, 24 Watts of Royal Blue, 24 Watts of Blue, and 24 Watts of whites for Dawn to Dusk, and finally 48 Watts of Royal Blue, 48 Watts of Blues, and 24 Watts of Whites for mid day.

Note I am using 4,000K Whites with higher K temperature White LED's I would be using more Whites, however this combination gives me the total colr effect that is the most pleasing to my eye as well as the best overall coral growth.

Yes with some controlers you can gradualy turn up the light on each bank of LED's however you are paying a premium price for this which is no more benifical for your corals than the lower cost way of doing it. Some people go as far as programing moon lighting to duplicate the moon phases which also adds cost and questionable as far as true benifit goes to the corals.

 

[kahkah]

I saw a few posts back that you're starting to play with the multichips for lighting refugiums. How effective do you think one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/16W-Greenhouse-Fast-Grow-Led-Panel-/220844846100?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336b60ec14 would be at lighting a 12"x18"x14" refugium, compared to my current 23w CFL bulb? Would I be better off using a standard 6500k mutlichip like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Epistar-20W-6500K-White-High-Power-LED-Panel-/220787520321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3367f63341?

The 630 reds are what you want for a algae turf scrubber, and most people seem to say tha a similar setup should work on a fuge for macro alga. I would think it would work, but I barely understand multichips

I have been wanting to do a led setup in my sump because of lack of space so I hope someone can chime in to give you an more "offical" answer

 

[mr.wilson]

The 630 reds are what you want for a algae turf scrubber, and most people seem to say tha a similar setup should work on a fuge for macro alga. I would think it would work, but I barely understand multichips

I have been wanting to do a led setup in my sump because of lack of space so I hope someone can chime in to give you an more "offical" answer

I find that full spectrum lighting with a lot of red grows cyanobacteria in a refugium that you don't get in the display where you use high kelvin light.

Pot growers use red light for stretched out growth, and blue light for compact growth, as they are growing terrestrial plants. For our purpose (marine algae), we need blue light to simulate refracted light from the sea.

For a refugium, I would just buy a cheap Chinese PAR 38 light with a mix of white and blue chips.

 

[wogga]

Lassef -

I have a ~150 litre tank which measures 91cmLx46cmWx46cmH. I will be running a divider-based horizontal gyre flow, so i will only need light penetration down to about 36cm.

I'm interested in building a small array of multichips comprised of ~400nm; ~420nm; ~450nm; ~460nm and 3000K or 6000k multichips, respectively. I would like to either use 10, 20, or 30w chips.

Could you please recommend an arrangement pattern (maybe even lenses) that would allow for balanced light spread with that many different color sources? I do not expect a definitive answer, but i appreciate any advice you may offer.

If it helps, i would like the chips to be higher off the surface of the water.

Thank you.

 

[mpf]

I've been looking to add more power to my Mazarras and the detailed information in this thread has given me some confidence to try my own DIY.

Off eBay, I got an EPISTAR 100W Super Actinic Blue Hybrid Led Panel. I'm wondering if there will be any problems using the Mean Well HLG-240H-36B to run it, if I wanted the option to go up to 6A?

Also, if I do end up running it at 3A or less, will there be any problems (eg. efficiency, heat etc)?

Thanks!

 

[Lassef]

I saw a few posts back that you're starting to play with the multichips for lighting refugiums. How effective do you think one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/16W-Greenhouse-Fast-Grow-Led-Panel-/220844846100?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336b60ec14 would be at lighting a 12"x18"x14" refugium, compared to my current 23w CFL bulb? Would I be better off using a standard 6500k mutlichip like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Epistar-20W-6500K-White-High-Power-LED-Panel-/220787520321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3367f63341?

My goal is to later produce a light that I can use for macro-algae in the interior sump in my Aqua Medic Percula 120 I am convinced that one can reach very far by using the red wavelengths of 660 and 630 nm, and blue wavelengths between 400 and 450 nm. In order not to give the eye the wrong impression, I will also use some white chip of 16000 K. I will not go the route of saying that a full spectrum source at 6500 K is the best option. Read through the list in my post 1080 in this thread. There is much information about which wavelengths can be used - and which to avoid. LEDs are a new type of light source that gives us the ability to customize exactly (well almost) the wavelengths needed. Post 1091 and post 1092 shows how to do also still have a good light to the eye when you combine different types of LED. The white light (which gives many wavelengths) is also important because there are wavelengths that have other biological meanings than just photosynthesis.

@ wogga: Look at the pattern I made in post 1091st I think it would be great for you. 1 piece 20-watt (or stronger) white light source in the middle and the blue spread evenly around.

I have noticed that the red in the middle gives a "disco effect" if it runs too strong or too close. This is because the wave movements resulting in a "shimmer" effect in the right corner of the aquarium. Have never seen this with blue light or white light. The test was the lighting only 15 cm from the surface. You wanted the lighting higher up and then you should probably use lenses. If you have a 90 in the middle and 60 degrees on the other, I think it will be good. Of course you may increase the distance between the chips so you can fit lenses. You can try things out but I think you get the best effect (or lack of effect) if you put the chips as a plus with the most divergent in the middle. The middle one should also have higher output - how much higher I do not know but I do not think there is a problem with either 30 or 50 watts - 20 watts works, I know.

@ mpf: The B versions of the HLG series can you not manual, to my knowledge, regulate the level of constant current. The effect is controlled by dimming instead. If you choose HLG-240-36 B you will get, what I know, 6.7 A of current. But you can choose any of the others. HLG-240-42 B gives 5.72 A, HLG-240-48 B to give 5 A and HLG-240-54b provides 4:45 A. Your chip's FV ranges for all these drivers constant current region. Remember, these drivers provide a constant current and regulates the voltage to what is needed.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[mpf]

@ mpf: The B versions of the HLG series can you not manual, to my knowledge, regulate the level of constant current. The effect is controlled by dimming instead. If you choose HLG-240-36 B you will get, what I know, 6.7 A of current. But you can choose any of the others. HLG-240-42 B gives 5.72 A, HLG-240-48 B to give 5 A and HLG-240-54b provides 4:45 A. Your chip's FV ranges for all these drivers constant current region. Remember, these drivers provide a constant current and regulates the voltage to what is needed.

Sincerely Lasse

Hi Lasse,

So I should go for the HLG-240H-36A (terminal block for I/O - what is this?) or HLG-240H-36C since both allow adjustment of output voltage and constant current level? Any reason not to go with HLG-240H-36A with more features, since price for both is the same?

My chip supports FV of 32-36V only. If I wanted the most options, to run it from say 2A all the way up to 6A, are there better drivers I can consider?

I'm not sure I want to run it at 6.7A which is very close to the max rating of 7A!

Really appreciate the help, thanks!

 

[ggrillo]

These leds seem very promising. I'd love to see some more pics of them running on the tank. Hows the color look? Do they look washed out like a lot of Leds?

 

[monty2k]

I have read the article and I think they totally missed the power of the LED. The power LED is that it is possible to specialize the wavelengths in such way that the energy is inserted where its needed.

In your case I would put a lot of blue in the wavelengths between 420-455 nm and some red at wavelengths around 630-660 nm. To get a more normal light, I would also equal watts as white light of 10000-16000 K. Use lenses to driving down the light. Red 20 Watt (wavelength 660 nm) and red 10 Watt (about 630 nm) are to come by. How many you need, you try your way up to but I would start with 3 x 50 watt white and 3 * 20 red (660 nm) 3 * 10 red (630) and at least a total of 100 watts of blue (420-455 nm). Divide into three even groups.

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse,

Thank you for your answer.
Are those blue 420nm you refer to UV? Because i can't find any Blue 420nm LEDs.

Thanks!

 

[Lassef]

Hi Lasse,

So I should go for the HLG-240H-36A (terminal block for I/O - what is this?) or HLG-240H-36C since both allow adjustment of output voltage and constant current level? Any reason not to go with HLG-240H-36A with more features, since price for both is the same?

My chip supports FV of 32-36V only. If I wanted the most options, to run it from say 2A all the way up to 6A, are there better drivers I can consider?

I'm not sure I want to run it at 6.7A which is very close to the max rating of 7A!

Really appreciate the help, thanks!

No I think you should use the B-serie - the other is no dimable.

You need not be afraid for volt's in the description of the driver. It simply indicates the area where the driver can maintain constant current. What volts you actually get is determined by what is called the Forward Voltage of your chip. In your case it is between 32-36 V and it is the voltage where your chip begins to carry current and thus light up. Since your driver provides a constant current (as opposed to drivers for many other things) it does not provide more volts than the load requires (in your case between 32 V and 36 V) - select a driver with 6 A and you will end in a FV around 36 and choose a driver with 3 A and you will end in a FV about 32 -33 V. the important thing is that your chip variation (32 - 36 V) is within driverns variation off the voltage it can provide at a particular current. If we look now at HLG - 240-36B, it provides 6.7 A at a FV of your chip, which is between 18-36V (CONSTANT CURRENT REGION). It works with your chip. HLG-240 - 42 B gives 5.7 A between a FV between 21 - 42 V (still works with your chip). It is the same for 48 B and 54B where FV between 24-48 V and 27-54 V works. your chips FV is still between 32 - 36 V and fit into each area. But the first case, 6.7 A and about 36 V FV, you get an effect.

But the first case, 6.7 A and about 36 V FV, you get a power of 240 W. The next drive giving 5.7 A, and probably a FV of about 35 V and thus you get about 199 W. 5 A provides an FV in your chips around 34 V, and therefore about 170 W. I would in your case choose 42 or 48 B and then with dimming adjust the effect. You can dim through the function: Constant current level adjustable through output cable with 1 ~ 10Vdc or 10V PWM signal or resistance. In reality, it seems that no matter what method you use to dim (1-10 V, PWM or resistance) it's the constant current level which will be affected.

You would also probably be able to use HLG-185h-36B even if they have not indicated any Constant Current Region for the model. Personally if I had the opportunity to dim I'd probably choose HLG-240H-42B. If you do not intend you to use a dim-function, but only have on and off, choose HLG-240H-36 A or HLG-240H-42 A.

@monty2k: Some people call it UV but the real UV starts below 400 nm. Here and here you have two examples. This is below 400 nm.

I have 420 and 405 nm and for the eye it is a large difference.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[mpf]

Hi Lasse,

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain! I have a clearer understanding now.

Cheers!

 

[Giga]

I have two of these guys and my DIY driver(not built by me) just went out. Can someone point out a good meanwell to drive two of these guys. I can't seem to find the difference between all the meanwells, and can be dimmed via pwm. Great thread and am about to use these for my mangrove light


http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BXRA-50C5300-H-00/976-1077-ND/2797751

 

[onetrickpony]

Look at these
http://www.satisled.com/constant-cu...ower-led-ac85vac265v-input-dc2026v-p-264.html
http://www.satisled.com/constant-cu...t-22v26v-output-for-yellow-and-red-p-443.html
http://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-eln-60-27d-dimmable-driver/
http://shop.stevesleds.com/The-Single-Dimming-LED-Driver-Driver-Single.htm

 

[garbled]

I've used the Meanwell HLG-150-36B and the HLG-185-36B with the hybrid 100w chips. Both worked great, both provided excellent power and dimming. I'm fully happy with these two drivers.

 

[Giga]

wherd you get them?

 

[onetrickpony]

I've used the Meanwell HLG-150-36B and the HLG-185-36B with the hybrid 100w chips. Both worked great, both provided excellent power and dimming. I'm fully happy with these two drivers.

I would check the spec sheet on the HLG-150-36B and the HLG-185-36B,
Im not sure they are a good match with your Bridgelux LED,

The Mean Well ELN-60-27P , one for each Bridgelux LED, Looks like a good match but check the spec sheet
http://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-eln-60-27p-dimmable-driver/

BXRA-50C5300-H-00
Forward Voltage Vf Min-21.9 Typ-24.4 Max-26.8
Ma- 1400-3000
http://www.bridgelux.com/assets/files/DS25 Bridgelux RS Array Data Sheet DS25 120311.pdf

 

[Cmoua]

Hey guys, finally got my LEDs after what seems like a year in transit. LOL Well I used my multimeter to measure the resistance of the LED and one of them reads Overload and the other reads a resistance of 5Kohms.

I also hooked the meter in series to the circuit to find the current and I am not getting any current reading.
I ask because my LEDs are not working.
I have my positive (+) hooked to the anode and negative (-) hooked to the cathode.

 

[Giga]

I would check the spec sheet on the HLG-150-36B and the HLG-185-36B,
Im not sure they are a good match with your Bridgelux LED,

The Mean Well ELN-60-27P , one for each Bridgelux LED, Looks like a good match but check the spec sheet
http://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-eln-60-27p-dimmable-driver/

BXRA-50C5300-H-00
Forward Voltage Vf Min-21.9 Typ-24.4 Max-26.8
Ma- 1400-3000
http://www.bridgelux.com/assets/files/DS25 Bridgelux RS Array Data Sheet DS25 120311.pdf

That eln is only recommended to run at 1.3ma so not enough there

 

[GY2202]

Hi All,

Just an update... I finally finish my build... and installed last night.

just to recap... my build details using 10Watts chip:

4pcs - Blue 460-470nm
4pcs - Royal Blue 455-465nm
2pcs - Royal Blue 445-450nm
2pcs - Near UV (violet) 402-405nm
8pcs - 10000k-16000k

Driver: Meanwell ELN-60-48D running 5 chips per driver at 850mA
Heatsink: 1220mm x 150mm x 75mm Aluminum, I also added some fins under the fans. All metal work is made of aluminum for the extra heat sink.
Fan: 2pcs Noctua NF-P12 120mm @12V
Floramate for Dimming and Sunrise & Sunset simulation