Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[Landsailor]

As the single Chip LED's are becoming more powerful I believe they will make the multichips obsolete before they we know it. Cree is making 10 Watt chips at this point which are more effecient than most multi chips...Another big factor is cost for many people. Cree 10 Watt chips are now selling in the 6 to 7 dollar range.

What company is selling Cree 10W chips in reef wavelengths for $7?

 

[SeaMonkey4]

New PLN Mean Well Drivers

New PLN Mean Well Drivers

Would any of the PLN drivers work with the 20W Epistar multi chips from acrc?

The LPF-90D-48 are over 50 bucks a piece. i was hoping these would be less expensive.

I have three Epistar 20W Super Actinic Blue Hybrid and two Epistar 20W 445 Royal Blue. I was hoping to put them on two drivers that are dimmable.

I am still undecided on either the rapidled heat sink or the MakersLed heat sink.

Thanks, I am a complete newbie at this led build and electronics in general so I hope not to mess up.

This is from the mean well site:


In response to the increasing demands of LED lighting and decorative lighting applications, MEAN WELL introduced another new AD/DC enclosed type LED power supply ~PLN-45 series~ 45W fully isolated plastic case with active PFC function designed for dustproof and waterproof purpose. Including this new series, right now our PLN family can fully satisfy the demands of all kinds of LED lighting fixtures by different wattage selections from 30W to 100W. These new power units comply with UL 1310 class 2 which represent the output power can less than 100VA or 5A under any situation. This feature significantly reduces the hazardous condition exposed to the technicians who execute the construction or maintenance of LED lighting system. In addition, the IP64 enclosure design can protect the electronic components against from dust and moisture that makes them can be used at all kind of locations.

Thanks to the simplified single stage PFC topology, the requirements for LED lighting/ decorative lighting industry, such as high power factor, cost effective as well as EN61000-3-2 harmonic class C compliance, can be achieved economically (> 75% loading). The working efficiency of PLN-45 series is up to 87.5%, hence, they can be operated between -30 ~ +50℃ by only free air convection, which can meet the LED drivers operating conditions in the world. Standard functions include 277VAC input voltage capability, short circuit, over load, over voltage, and over temperature protections. As for input/ output connection, 18AWG power cord is equipped to provide users a great flexibility for all kinds of system installation. To guarantee your safety, these power supplies comply with TUV/UL/CUL/CE certificates, includes major lighting standards such as UL 1310, UL879 SAM List, EN61347-1, EN61347-2-13.




AC input 90~295VAC/ Full range

Fully isolated plastic case with IP64 level

Built-in active PFC function/ EN61000-3-2 Class C compliance(>75% load)

PF>0.9 for 75% of load or higher

User adjustable output voltage and constant current level

Working efficiency up to 87.5%

Cooling by free air convection

Protections: Short circuit/ Overload/ Over voltage/ Over temperature

Low cost, high reliability

UL1310, EN61347-2-13, EN55015, EN61547 lighting standards approved

Dimension(LxWxH): 181x 61.5x 35mm

2 years warranty

Here is a link to the SPECs:

http://www.meanwell.com/search/PLN-45/PLN-45-spec.pdf

 

[zoaracer]

Multichip LED lifespan..

Multichip LED lifespan..

have any of you guys had failures in these multichip LED's ??

asking just because it internally has series parallel arrangements..i have used 10W ones for some time and i have mixed results..


regards
zoaracer

 

[megadeth72]

For those of us that can or do not want to run a big wide heatsink the multichip are a dream come true, they are perfect for a small tank pendant

I have both and I really love the pendant setup, I'm trying to get in on next buy, and I'm not sure what production problems were referenced above, anyone know what they are if they are still an issue?

 

[ShipWreck2]

So realizing the dream chip is not available, and not sure it is my dream what other options are there?

I was thinking more of using 2-3 of the 100w chips with some 10 or 20w in blue that would be adjusted for color and dawn dusk effect. Thoughts on setting up this? If it is too much cost or not going to work I will just go buy 2 400w MH bulbs and call it good until the bulbs need replacing.

 

[burnah]

from what ive read earlier it is my understanding that supplementing a 100w chip with 10 or 20w blues is not going to work out well. also what ive read is that the color the sellers state is not necessary correct, so if you buy a 10k chip you might end up with 6.5k, so i would buy 2 20k kelvin chips and one with say 16000 kelvin or 12000k

greetings

 

[SeaMonkey4]

Well, forget my post on the PLN driver. Not sure where my brain was, but it is NOT new, the write I read was not a current one!

Anyhow, are there any newer drivers that would be more efficient and/or less expensive? I will eventually need more drivers if this unit works out for me. I have a 75 gallon and a 58 gallon tank so I am thinking 4 units for now.

 

[Lassef]

have any of you guys had failures in these multichip LED's ??

asking just because it internally has series parallel arrangements..i have used 10W ones for some time and i have mixed results..


regards
zoaracer

I have use 10 watts (of the
Ebay link removed~dc
type but the old 38 mil version - both RB and whites at 14 000 - 16 000K) for nearly 2 years without any problems. There is differences in quality out there. I have a total amount of 50 pcs of 10 watts chip running in different aquariums. 25 of them has been running nearly 2 years - the others for 1 year. Normally I run this chip at 900 mA. temperature at the backside from 35 to 45 degree C.

The last year I have also run 5 cree XM-L at 2000 mA (5 watts) and 10 Cree XP-E RB at 900 mA. 2 of the XP-E has been broken.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lassef]

For those of us that can or do not want to run a big wide heatsink the multichip are a dream come true, they are perfect for a small tank pendant

I have both and I really love the pendant setup, I'm trying to get in on next buy, and I'm not sure what production problems were referenced above, anyone know what they are if they are still an issue?

There is no production problems of the Dream Chip as I know. There is some issues that you need to know about when you mount your chip. There is different LED in different channels so the FV will vary. The Dream Chip is build for 5 different drivers but if you want to connect some channels in parallel you need to be careful and don´t run the channels at max amperage. There is a discussion about DIY Multi chip LED Build taken place in an other part of the cyberspace - try to found it an you get information from people that just now build their set up and test things in order to help other people.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lassef]

What company is selling Cree 10W chips in reef wavelengths for $7?

Hi 007Bond

He is probably referring to the Cree XM-L LED. They are produced in Kelvin´s between 2600-8300 No other colours.

The interesting things with this LED is that it can be driven up to 3000 mA and at that amperage is the FV 3,35 V. This give around 10 W. The effectiveness of this chip will vary with the current. Cree by them self do not give any min. luminous flux for 3000 mA but for the best variant (the cool white U2) they give 300 lm for 700 mA, 416 lm for 1000 mA, 590 lm for 1500 mA and 742 lm for 2000 mA. The FV for 700 mA is typical 2.9, 1000 mA - around 3 V, 1500 mA - 3.1 V and for 2000 mA - 3.2.

Wattage at 700 mA -> 0.7*2.9=2W -> lm/W= 150lm/W
Wattage at 1000 mA -> 1*3= 3 W -> lm/W= 1.38 lm/W
Wattage at 1500 mA -> 1.5*3.1=4.5W -> lm/W = 1.31 l/W
Wattage at 2000 mA -> 2*3.2=6.4W -> lm/W = 115 lm/W

You can clearly see that the effectiveness drop rather much when the current increase to 2000 mA and they have no figures at 3000 mA

Probably they are not better than the 10 watts multi chip if you run the XM-L at 10 watts. and this is for the best variant. some of the warm whites will not give more than 450 lm at 2000 mA -> lm/W = 70 lm/W.

You can see the whole specification and do your own calculations here

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lassef]

from what ive read earlier it is my understanding that supplementing a 100w chip with 10 or 20w blues is not going to work out well. also what ive read is that the color the sellers state is not necessary correct, so if you buy a 10k chip you might end up with 6.5k, so i would buy 2 20k kelvin chips and one with say 16000 kelvin or 12000k

greetings

For my eyes I prefer the 16 000 K of the Epiled and Epistar LED from AC-RC. For me the 20 000 K is more yellow than the 16 000 K. I have compared more than once. If you want a blue look some of the combo multichip probably will suit you.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lassef]

No...

Par readings can sometimes be higher in a small tank compared to a large tank simply due to the glass reflecting some of the light back to the sensor. The water absorbs far more light than the air, per distance traveled and any collimating effect of the water (surface refraction) is negated by the scattering and reflectance of the (not smooth) water surface. That is, even if the water surface was a collimating lens (breaking the inverse square law), the losses through the body of water are greater than that of the collimating effect, save the reflection from the glass.

Lets not make LEDs or the "dream chip" into some magical device that is not bound by the laws of physics

I´m not agree with you. I have done som calculation that shows that if you use a 60 degree lens and take with the waters refractive index in the calculation - the area of the light beam will be around 43 % larger if the beam has travel in 70 cm of only air compared with 10 cm of air and 60 cm of water. I asume that I have the chip 10 cm over the water surface and that it is 60 cm to the bottom (total 70 cm).

This is enough for me to understand why I allways measure higher PAR in water at the same distance from source to the bottom as in pure air.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[megadeth72]

I have use 10 watts (of the
Ebay link removed~dc
type but the old 38 mil version
Sincerely Lasse

what does the "mil" refer to?

 

[Lassef]

what does the "mil" refer to?

The size of the invidual LED. Larger size means higher current. The 40 mil only manage 350 mA to each LED - the 45 mil (of epistar and epiled) manage 700 mA to each invidual LED. Many of the 42 mil also manage 700 mA. Look at the spec.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[BeanAnimal]

I´m not agree with you. I have done som calculation that shows that if you use a 60 degree lens and take with the waters refractive index in the calculation - the area of the light beam will be around 43 % larger if the beam has travel in 70 cm of only air compared with 10 cm of air and 60 cm of water. I asume that I have the chip 10 cm over the water surface and that it is 60 cm to the bottom (total 70 cm).

This is enough for me to understand why I allways measure higher PAR in water at the same distance from source to the bottom as in pure air.

Sincerely Lasse

Respectfully, your calculations simply do not account for several realities and the fact that the rest of us don't get better PAR in water than in air....

As stated, if we take into account the refractive index of seawater and air (not a seawater and a vacuum), couple that with the losses incured by the density and clarity of the water and the fact that a partially collimated light source is already present (a focused beam) then account for the small diameter of the sensor reading the PAR it is hard to fathom a gain.


Look at it this way:
A large portion of this thread has been spent talking about the color of light that reaches the coral and what is absent, but presnt in the sunshine that strikes the water. That light travels 83 million miles from the sun (subject to the Law of Inverse Squares) and then passes through about 600 miles of "air" with most of its wavelengths still intact when it strikes the water surface (even on a cloudy day), only to have MOST of those wavelengths stripped away in the first few feet of water.


This is not something your spreadsheet calculations are going to model very well


If you are seeing an increase in PAR in some areas during in water measurments (as compared to the in air measurements) they are likely due to the reflectance of the glass, and to that end the more focused the initial beam, the less collimating effect you from the water and/or reflectance from the glass. Hope that makes sense

 

[avieira]

great post ,,,,,,, really thinking about making one for my 50 gallon ..
found this led, What do yo all think about it ?

http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=702

 

[acabgd]

Are the "dream chips" ready to be purchased yet by those that weren't in on the group buy?
Or is there a thread specifically for those chips? maybe on another board or something?

There is another group buy for DreamChips going on at this moment on another board. I'm sure you can find it on Google typing "dreamchip led groupbuy".

 

[acabgd]

but what it is lacking is any real feedback on the success or failure of any systems.

So does anyone have some real world experiences with their setups? What size tanks, what size and type of LEDs, and what type of corals?

I've been using the 20W Ac-Rc hybrid over my 7g nano with great results in growing SPS. I also have photo comparison of growth.

I now switched to the DreamChip on my 55g as of last night and I'll be documenting the results as well.

 

[megadeth72]

which 20w hybrid did you use? there's quite a few combos out there

 

[bhazard451]

I've been using the 20W Ac-Rc hybrid over my 7g nano with great results in growing SPS. I also have photo comparison of growth.

I now switched to the DreamChip on my 55g as of last night and I'll be documenting the results as well.

A lot of us would love to see pics and impressions.

The main barrier of entry in these is the issue of only 1 manufacturer and seller making these, and the fact they must be bought in a group buy to be made and purchased. The whole process is a bit shady until that certain company or other companies provide them for individual sale. There really is no reason for them not to do this, as the demand is there.

A few other companies were willing to make the chip when I asked awhile ago, but the cost is $220+ per chip for an individual sale, as it is complicated for them to make (as of now). In comparison, you could buy an entire 120watt fixture from that same company with drivers, dimmers, 45mil Epistars, and an aluminum heatsink inside for under $200, shipped directly to you from China within 3 days. You would pay even less if you did a group buy in the same way as the dream chip, but the difference is, you aren't forced to. For ~$110 via group buys, you can have a chip, or you can have an entire fixture with the same wavelengths, or with wavelengths of your choosing if desired... which one sounds like the better value?

Until they're readily available to purchase individually at the group buy price, they will be niche and less adopted. Its been a waiting game for months now for this to happen, and I still cannot purchase one without going to another forum and participating in a group buy in which I am not comfortable with.

People like myself are not comfortable with paying $100+ through a group buy to basically beta test a chip... and the whole process in itself is banned from reef central. For those who do purchase them, your experiences with them are greatly desired to hear about.

I really do want to like these, but they still aren't really ready yet until they won't get you banned here to purchase them.


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