Peter Eichler
New member
I'd guess that claim is mostly greed based. I've been in the reef hoby for 25+ years and wouldn't use miracle mud if it was free.
Miracle Mud or Fiji Mud or neither
- Thread starter agruetz
- Start date
I'd guess that claim is mostly greed based. I've been in the reef hoby for 25+ years and wouldn't use miracle mud if it was free.
d2mini
Premium Member
I just like mangroves. I know they are super slow on the uptake of nutrients.
But I have a 50+ forest of them growing in a little tub which is just cool. :thumbsup:
But this is one reason I'm redoing my refugium... so i have room for other algaes that actually do something.
d2mini
Premium Member
Could be. That is one train of thought. But the Fiji supposedly dissipates over time. So if this is true, that is why I'm asking what you would do if you have a sand bed on top of it.
There are also other guys that have 25+ years in the hobby like Mike Paletta who swear by the stuff and wouldn't set up a tank without it.
I'm not arguing it either way though. I've used it in the past myself in my sump and other than having a very healthy tank with no nuisance algae or other problems, who knows if it had any affect at all. I don't run it in my current tank. My reasoning for asking about it for my refugium now is more for the consistency of it vs sand. Would the mangroves or other algaes prefer the coarseness of sand or the denser/softer mud?
Mudbeaver
New member
I'd like to point out to those who are serious and want to try it out do it. Most of those who are totaly againts it never even tried it or just red a report from others who just red reports of others. Try it use it and draw your own conclusions. I've had very good and stable system with it never had problems, and never found any harm in its use. :wavehand: PS you don't need to cover your whole tank with it just a small area about 10% of your tank by the way.
Peter Eichler
New member
Could be. That is one train of thought. But the Fiji supposedly dissipates over time. So if this is true, that is why I'm asking what you would do if you have a sand bed on top of it.
There are also other guys that have 25+ years in the hobby like Mike Paletta who swear by the stuff and wouldn't set up a tank without it.
I'm not arguing it either way though. I've used it in the past myself in my sump and other than having a very healthy tank with no nuisance algae or other problems, who knows if it had any affect at all. I don't run it in my current tank. My reasoning for asking about it for my refugium now is more for the consistency of it vs sand. Would the mangroves or other algaes prefer the coarseness of sand or the denser/softer mud?
Some people seem to view certain aquarium products as they would a deity; it takes a lot of faith and belief. I'd love to see a well supported scientific explanation from Mike, or anyone else, that explains what Miracle Mud really adds to the reef environment.
Honestly, "Paletta's method" is just the same as just about any other current reef tank but with some "miracle mud" thrown in. Nothing too interesting there, nor anything that will do much harm either. Also, ask yourself if you think Paletta stood to benefit financially from his many articles on the topic and possible noteriety that followed from those articles... Has he ever been paid, through free product or otherwise, by Ecosystems? I don't know, but I personally wonder.
As far as I'm concerned, the wide availability of Chaetomorpha sp. algae made miracle mud and their caulerpa growing method obsolete.
Much of the denitrifcation via aneobic activity occurs in the first inch of a sand bed anyway.
Trace elements are everywhere; euphemistic phrase for impurities.
Mud is mud; no miracle in it.. Need more specifics than occasional testimonials to claim a general non specific amorphous positive benefit of some kind but can't get them because it's " proprietary information. Buying it to try it helps the seller , I'm sure, but doesn't do much for reeef tanks or seahorse tanks.
Your English is fine but there is no need to embolden your script.
Trace elements are everywhere; euphemistic phrase for impurities.
Mud is mud; no miracle in it.. Need more specifics than occasional testimonials to claim a general non specific amorphous positive benefit of some kind but can't get them because it's " proprietary information. Buying it to try it helps the seller , I'm sure, but doesn't do much for reeef tanks or seahorse tanks.
Your English is fine but there is no need to embolden your script.
Putting sand on top of it will trap organics that may be in it in anoxic areas leading to trouble iwth sufate reducing bacteria ,I suspect.
Mike Paletta who swear by the stuff and wouldn't set up a tank without it
Wheer does he say tht exactly? Context is always helpful.
Mike Paletta who swear by the stuff and wouldn't set up a tank without it
Wheer does he say tht exactly? Context is always helpful.
Mudbeaver
New member
Sorry mate but anaerobic bacteria are bacteria that don't need oxygene to survive and they are found in deep sand bed 5" and more . As to trap organic compound with coarse sand its the same in a Reef tank here..... its like the BB tanks, is the ocean BB is swamp or ponds without mud, you can't control them so you just want to get rid of them ... I'm not forcing anyone to use this product . I've used it and found to be usefull thats all. Yes your right no miracle; thats a maketing ploy; but the product is what it is. Expensive.... what else is new in this Hobby.
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d2mini
Premium Member
fazilosman
New member
Obviously there are many ways and methods to reefing. I am running Miracle Mud in my fuge since setting up the tank 10 months ago. I also used it on my last tank which was a disaster due to GHA. I like having the substrate in my fuge and I have large pieces of rubble covering it. I finally added some chaeto this week as I was concerned that my nutrients was too low to support the macro. My reef is doing good! Great growth and great color. No GHA or any other nuisance algae. I highly respect the posters on this forum like TMZ but like the crypic look of the mud in my fuge. As for trace, well your guess is as good as mine. I actually also use Fauna Marin in my 2-part for a supplement.
My recommendation - try it! I cannot give you a definitive reason why it works. That's true for alot of methods in this hobby. Also, go onto YouTube and look at Leng Sy's channel. He ran a 4x aquarium setup for over a year to compare results. http://www.youtube.com/user/lengksy
Best of luck.
My recommendation - try it! I cannot give you a definitive reason why it works. That's true for alot of methods in this hobby. Also, go onto YouTube and look at Leng Sy's channel. He ran a 4x aquarium setup for over a year to compare results. http://www.youtube.com/user/lengksy
Best of luck.
Mudbeaver
New member
That a very nice vid very informative about the hobby on a number of subjects thanks.:wavehand:
Peter Eichler
New member
Actually, the past analysis showed that doesn't appear to contain anything that's ever touched an ocean. So, maybe it isn't what it is :fun4::rollface:
Mudbeaver
New member
Peter Eichler
New member
They also keep calling it a Leng Sy ststem, which it isn't even CLOSE to being one. That tank has a nice protein skimmer, GFO and GAC...
My favorite part is the Ecosytem advertisement in the middle... Oh wait, most of the video is an advertisement...
Peter Eichler
New member
Maybe its moondust who knows lol
THey should probably raise the prices, I hear material costs for moon dust are on the rise :lmao:
IIRC it is about 70% quartz which is inert, so you are paying for little more than garden soil that has no oceanic origins. The only benefit is for growing plants like sea grasses where they can take advantage of the iron content it contains but as far as doing anything the marketing claims, it is pure rubbish. If anyone would like to see the assay of the product, I will dig it up. It is comical and yet sad at the same time. The contents of the product has been known for about 10 years and still people buy it.
Sorry mate but anaerobic bacteria are bacteria that don't need oxygene to survive and they are found in deep sand bed 5" and more . As to trap organic compound with coarse sand its the same in a Reef tank here..... its like the BB tanks, is the ocean BB is swamp or ponds without mud, you can't control them so you just want to get rid of them ... I'm not forcing anyone to use this product . I've used it and found to be usefull thats all. Yes your right no miracle; thats a maketing ploy; but the product is what it is. Expensive.... what else is new in this Hobby.
What's with the oversized letters. Printing it large doesn't make it correct. That is just wrong.
Denitrifying bacteria are facultative aerobes. They thrive in the presence of oxygen and move on to taking oxygen from nitrate . They don't need 5 inches of sand to do it. The create hypoxic areas in their own mats or in shallow sands. This is well known nowadays and is a prime reason for the popularity of bare botoom and shallow sand bed tanks. Study up on it.
What's with the oversized letters. Printing it large doesn't make it correct. That is just wrong.
Denitrifying bacteria are facultative aerobes. They thrive in the presence of oxygen and move on to taking oxygen from nitrate . They don't need 5 inches of sand to do it. The create hypoxic areas in their own mats or in shallow sands. This is well known nowadays and is a prime reason for the popularity of bare botoom and shallow sand bed tanks. Study up on it.
D2mini
Thanks for the link . I enjoyed the video . I have the following observations fwiw:
A) He pays homage to the Leng method with a little bit of mud in a small fuge in the sump. The Leng method is not in play though. Skimmer is in use and there are other variations like gfo use. The notion that miracle mud use will cure HHLE makes no sense at all.
B) I like the use of reef brite leds with the halides . Isuse them too but also use the vho actinics.
C) Nice set up on humidity control
D)50x flow is good
E) box acclimation to tank is nice idea; qt process very minimal and lacking ,imo.
F)Hose on a rake idea for sand cleaning is cool.
G) 300g tank is jammed with re nice corals and fish but that tank is relatively new and they have been recentnly resettled. The corals themselves will do a good bit of nutrient reduction btw.
H)Funnel and tube for feeding lps neat.
I)More nuisance algae than I like between even tightly packed coral colonies,despite a number of herbivorous fish.
J) cyano on the sand bed too ,despite cleaning.
K) The emphasis on small feedings 8x per day to lessen nutrients and waste was off the mark, imo. Most of what a fish eats at least teh phosphate is expeled by them.
All in all a very nice collection of fish and corals with reasonably good color.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the link . I enjoyed the video . I have the following observations fwiw:
A) He pays homage to the Leng method with a little bit of mud in a small fuge in the sump. The Leng method is not in play though. Skimmer is in use and there are other variations like gfo use. The notion that miracle mud use will cure HHLE makes no sense at all.
B) I like the use of reef brite leds with the halides . Isuse them too but also use the vho actinics.
C) Nice set up on humidity control
D)50x flow is good
E) box acclimation to tank is nice idea; qt process very minimal and lacking ,imo.
F)Hose on a rake idea for sand cleaning is cool.
G) 300g tank is jammed with re nice corals and fish but that tank is relatively new and they have been recentnly resettled. The corals themselves will do a good bit of nutrient reduction btw.
H)Funnel and tube for feeding lps neat.
I)More nuisance algae than I like between even tightly packed coral colonies,despite a number of herbivorous fish.
J) cyano on the sand bed too ,despite cleaning.
K) The emphasis on small feedings 8x per day to lessen nutrients and waste was off the mark, imo. Most of what a fish eats at least teh phosphate is expeled by them.
All in all a very nice collection of fish and corals with reasonably good color.
Thanks again.
