Miracle mud

trueblackpercula

trueblackpercula

New member
Starting over with my reef tank and would like to know if miracle mud is good to start a for a refugium?
Anyone with experience please let me know.
 
I have used it on some tanks and not on others and I never saw a difference with anything to show that there is something special about MM. Spend your money else where IMO.
 
The only time I have seen MM be of use is when growing mangroves in a fuge or raceway. What kind of plants??
 
If you are looking to grow SPS I would avoid the MM. There are many other threads revolving around this question of MM in a SPS reef. If you are trying to grow mangroves as allsps40 stated, I would then possibly look into MM (though it's expensive and IMHO a waste of money). SPS and swamp water don't mix. :)
 
Thank you for your advice.....I do have a remote sanded in the sump and was going to turn it into a refugium. I just didn't know if I needed the MM or not so now it's off to the local store to pick up some mangroves and calurpa and a small light. Anything I am leaving out?
 
G4546 said:
If you are looking to grow SPS I would avoid the MM. There are many other threads revolving around this question of MM in a SPS reef. If you are trying to grow mangroves as allsps40 stated, I would then possibly look into MM (though it's expensive and IMHO a waste of money). SPS and swamp water don't mix. :)
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I can't say I agree with this. There are many successful, drop dead gorgeous SPS tanks that have miracle mud in their refugium. Chingchai (who needs no introduction) is probably among the most elite reefkeepers in the hobby, and has always run Miracle Mud refugiums on his SPS tanks. I've never used Miracle Mud, so I won't comment on its' effectiveness one way or the other. It's definitely an interesting concept, and I really don't think introducing Miracle Mud is going to hurt someone's system, or keep them from being able to color up and grow SPS corals.

Some people say it's very good at growing mangroves and macro algae. Isn't that the whole point of a refugium? Allowing marine algae and other plants a good starting point to take root and establish themselves gives them the ability to grow and take up nutrients, while providing a safe haven for pods and other "gentler" life a chance to breed and feed the display tank. Using Miracle Mud isn't going to lower your nitrates and phosphates over night. With the current low nutrient craze, I think people downplay the effectiveness of a more subtle nutrient export means simply because it's not immediate gratification. Deep sand beds work, but as time goes on they can eventually become like leeching septic systems. Even if you can take the DSB offline and remove it to start over, it's still a PITA to go through it all. Some people like a shallow sand substrate, and some go the mud route. Leng Sy has come up with a very unique filtration method that has been proven to work. His display tanks and many others are proof positive that it can be done, and still is being done. Where I think most people fail with the miracle mud refugium method is simply not having a large enough refugium. A small baffle in a sump will minimally help filter an SPS tank, but plumbing in a separate refugium altogether, given enough time, has the ability to remove a large amount of nutrients from an aquarium, and could be an attractive display all on its' own.
 
If you google miracle mud and inland aquatics, you will find where a couple of different places did an assay on it and found it to be mostly terrestrial dirt with a high silica and iron content. In both of the tests I remember they found no evidence at all of it having come from the ocean, no shell fragments and not of a calcium base. There have been a few reports of it being a great substrate for seagrasses or a Caulerpa bed. As far as the product actually doing anything beneficial, I have never seen anything to indicate that it does, other than providing a little iron for chaeto which you can do yourself for a lot less money.

It also appears to be of no harm either, being mostly quartz. If anything it has a placebo effect for you, a nice monetary gain for the seller and packager. Sadly it is like many products in this hobby, designed to do nothing other than separate you from your money.
 
Now that's amazing no need for miracle mud at all and I will just be using my remote sand bed to convert it into a refugium. Also is it wise to use a refugium and dose vodka?
Thanks
 
If your macro algae is still growing in the fuge, then there is no reason to remove it, it is still a place with no predation that allows pods to grow. Carbon dosing doesn't always negate the benefits of a fuge, that is if you can keep your macro's growing. I don't run a dedicated fuge, but do still have a sheet of Chaeto in the sump.

This hobby is over run with companies marketing products that just are not needed, (insert your favorite Brightwell gimmick here) and there are plenty of people looking for short cuts and think that these products will somehow enable them to do things they could not do otherwise. Additives, supplements, garden soil and such aren't really needed. What is needed, and this has always been the case, is good husbandry, good maintenance and a desire to learn. We have made advances in the hobby in the past 10 years, and that will continue, but I have never seen it come in a colorful package with a shiny new name.
 
Well said SIRREAL63, I went to the pet store yesterday and the checker asked if that bottle on the counter is also mine, I said no and It is just baking soda in a bottle anyway, for $10. She said shush! do not tell anyone.
 
sirreal63 said:
If your macro algae is still growing in the fuge, then there is no reason to remove it, it is still a place with no predation that allows pods to grow. Carbon dosing doesn't always negate the benefits of a fuge, that is if you can keep your macro's growing. I don't run a dedicated fuge, but do still have a sheet of Chaeto in the sump.

This hobby is over run with companies marketing products that just are not needed, (insert your favorite Brightwell gimmick here) and there are plenty of people looking for short cuts and think that these products will somehow enable them to do things they could not do otherwise. Additives, supplements, garden soil and such aren't really needed. What is needed, and this has always been the case, is good husbandry, good maintenance and a desire to learn. We have made advances in the hobby in the past 10 years, and that will continue, but I have never seen it come in a colorful package with a shiny new name.
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Very well stated sir, very well stated.
 
Well here is my original build thread http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=746233&pp=25

After two power outages and no time my tank crashed and I gave up on it for almost 2 1/2 years. All I did was top off the tank with tap water and feed the 3 yellow tail damsels and the two clownfish until sandy hit us and lost power for the third third time. But this time power was lost for 5 days and all but one damsel was left. So I decided for a few days that it was time to take the tank down and turn it into a planeted discus tank......well when I opened the door to the fish room and noticed the chiller,the mrc mr2 protein skimmer, dosing pumps and all the lighting I said to myself naaaaaaaaaa I going back into reef keeping.

So here I am cleaning the pool of bubble algae and hair algae everywhere. All the entire water chemistry is out of wack so it will be a long road ahead before any SPS a purchased.

So I did at one time use vodka and it worked well for me but was a daily chore that some days I just could not get to. That's when I noticed on an amazing tank on reefcentral with a refugium and have been reading about them for days.

With that Said I am trapped /torn between vodka dosing and the refugium filter. What has everyone's expericans been with that? I am leaning more to Vodka then anything so I would love some guidance on this.

Here are a few pictures of what a neglected reef tank looks like,,,,,,
 

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Alex T. said:
I can't say I agree with this. There are many successful, drop dead gorgeous SPS tanks that have miracle mud in their refugium. Chingchai (who needs no introduction) is probably among the most elite reefkeepers in the hobby, and has always run Miracle Mud refugiums on his SPS tanks.
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Agreed, he needs no introduction :). Though for how simply you state he uses MM, I'd have to respond simply with, I'm sure you've seen the filtration system he uses ;) I wouldn't attribute his system to the miraculous use of what is called Miracle MUD before I would to his impressive (understatement) filtration ;).
 
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