Mountains of sawdust (360g plywood, LED, Arduino build)

[digitalchrisg]

Are you talking about mine or Willie's?

Well I guess both, but from the sounds of it the pvc canvas is the way to go. I plan on doing this when I get back in town. I know that I am going to be going out in a week, and did not want experiments running while I am not there to watch. While I have some one watching the house and the tank, it's not the same.

Thank you both, I really like this thread it is comming along nicely.

 

[widmer]

You guys realize that that TS screen has to be roughed up? And I mean roughed up! To perform well it has to be so roughed up that it actually hurts to touch it. So roughed up, that it takes hours of hard work to get it that way. That's why if you buy pre-made screens they are surprisingly expensive. It's due to the labor of roughing them up.

If you don't rough them up they work poorly. The algae will slide off in large clumps which defeats the purpose since the algae goes back into the water column. When you go to scrape off the TS huge bare areas will occur that have to restart from scratch. Starting an un-roughed up screen takes vastly longer because the fine turf hairs flush by the screen instead of hanging on to it.

One of the current best ways to rough up a screen is to us a hole saw without the centering bit. Use it by hand without a drill to scrape the screen until you're blue in the face.

Warm whites work better than cool whites on the bulbs. So always try for the pink-er colors.

When I tried doing the hole saw technique before, I had actually scraped off like half of the screen within 15 minutes. Maybe my hole saw was too sharp?

Either way, on my next build, the "screen" for my planned ATS is going to be made out of crushed coral/reef sand/cement...

BTW DWZM, your build looks GREAT and based on what I've read over at Santa Monica's website as far as how best to make the turf scrubbers, it looks like your ATS is scheduled to be a huge success!

 

[daninfamous]

Read your whole build, looks amazing, great work, im stoked about you trying the ATS, i've been mowing over the idea for my 40breeder, hope to see good results with yours keep us posted!

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

What is the sheet made of, it looks like you are just using plexiglass? I was thinking of doing one with a painters canvas, but plexi sounds a lot easier.

I'm using pvc canvas from Michael's

I love the turf scrubbers, please keep reporting how they work for you. I was looking into ATS when setting up my tank but then decided against it because I couldn't find the screen material anywhere (one of those moments where I wish I lived in the US ).
How does the screen look now?

Oh and your aquascape is great! Great mix of caves to hide, open space to swim and room for corals

Yes, same here. "Plastic canvas" from a craft store (Hobby Lobby I think, I ordered it online from the cheapest place I could find). It's used for crocheting/cross stitching, so look in those sections of a craft or hobby store. I'm sure it is available worldwide. You could always look on eBay.

When I tried doing the hole saw technique before, I had actually scraped off like half of the screen within 15 minutes. Maybe my hole saw was too sharp?

Either way, on my next build, the "screen" for my planned ATS is going to be made out of crushed coral/reef sand/cement...

BTW DWZM, your build looks GREAT and based on what I've read over at Santa Monica's website as far as how best to make the turf scrubbers, it looks like your ATS is scheduled to be a huge success!

Thanks for the compliments guys. I found that "technique" mattered when using the hole saw. If you rubbed it around in really close circles, it just sort of abraded the screen without much of a result. If you "scraped" it in long passes from edge to edge, it would pull up long "shavings" of the material, many of which would remain attached, and I think that's what you want - really long shavings sticking out from the screens.

At any rate I bought 6 sheets of the material and only really need 4, so I had extra to practice on.

 

[Nathan.Titulaer]

I also used a wall paper removal tool after the hole saw to create divots. I am not sure if it helped or not but it made me feel proud

 

[XSiVE]

I also used a wall paper removal tool after the hole saw to create divots. I am not sure if it helped or not but it made me feel proud

It's funny because I ran across one of those while doing some paint work in the house this weekend and the first thing that came to mind was "hm I bet this could be used to rough up a screen for a turf scrubber".

I've been thinking about a TS for awhile in place of my refugium, im not sure how well it would work with my current vodka dosing regimen. Im looking forward to updates on this one as a point of reference.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I'm waiting for someone to perfect a bacteria scrubber - i.e. a method to dose carbon to encourage bacterial growth, as done with vodka dosing, but in a manner that the bacteria grow on an easily-cleaned substrate/screen instead of free-floating in the water, so they could be removed without a skimmer. IMHO this would be an ultimate technique; it would have all the advantages of a turf scrubber without the light requirement. It would pretty much be a zero-add-energy-cost method of nutrient removal.

 

[username in use]

well, get on it dwiz

 

[widmer]

I'm waiting for someone to perfect a bacteria scrubber - i.e. a method to dose carbon to encourage bacterial growth, as done with vodka dosing, but in a manner that the bacteria grow on an easily-cleaned substrate/screen instead of free-floating in the water, so they could be removed without a skimmer. IMHO this would be an ultimate technique; it would have all the advantages of a turf scrubber without the light requirement. It would pretty much be a zero-add-energy-cost method of nutrient removal.

Isn't this called a "gravel vac" ? :lolspin:

I guess what I mean is that that's a fun idea but I don't know how a person would make the bacteria selectively grow on any given screen as opposed to, say, the substrate.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Laugh all you want. My first reef tank had an UGF on it. :lol:

 

[kcress]

My existing tank still has under gravel filters and 4 inches of CCoral.

Just need a conveyor to transport the gravel out thru a blast furnace and then back in. Like miniature Tectonic Plates.

 

[stugray]

"My existing tank still has under gravel filters and 4 inches of CCoral.

Just need a conveyor to transport the gravel out thru a blast furnace and then back in. Like miniature Tectonic Plates."

My sump/refugium has a "plenum" in it with ~4-5" Sand on top.

Every time I do a water change, I "flush" the substrate ( blow new SW under the substrate ) until I see some of the "smoke" coming UP through the substrate.

My water gets murky, then my skimmer goes crazy to take it out.

I know that there are volumes about how to/how not-to manage your substrate, but this works for me after 5 years.

I find that if you stick your hand into the substrate and it feels like mud, you will soon be in trouble.

Stu

 

[Rhodes19]

Chris,

I cut the slot in the pipe on a table saw. I would not suggest this unless you've got experience/tools to do it safely - otherwise, a Dremel with a cutoff wheel or something like that would work.

The "clips" are really narrow slices of 1.5" pipe with a cut to split them. So to get the screen off, I rotate the clips until the slot is down and then the screen pulls out of them.

The endcap is "snugged" by several wraps of teflon tape around the pipe before the cap was plugged on. I basically wanted to keep the whole thing modular until I was sure I liked it. There's actually an annoying leak out of this joint so I need to re-do it or just suck it up and glue it.

I wouldn't consider this a final build yet. There are a few modifications I have in mind:

1) To create a "splash shield" and prevent algae from growing up into the pipe and clogging things, I'm going to split a 2" pipe and slide it around the main pipe.
2) There's a union at the supply end of the slit pipe, barely visible down at the other end in that photo. I'll probably replace this with a threaded ball valve or gate valve. I don't need the easy disassembly of a union anyways. And I currently have one ball valve on the supply line to control flow rate, but since there's only the one valve, if I want to shut it down, I have to either shut that valve (which loses my setpoint) or shut off the return pump, which I don't like to do unless required. So I want two valves - one as a shutoff, and the other as an adjustment.
3) I haven't fooled around with the reflectors yet. I have a flat sheet of reflector material from an old hood that I'm going to cut to shape to slide behind the CFLs.

At that point I'll probably be mostly done until if/when I convert it to LEDs. I know we spoke of enclosures earlier in the thread but I'm not convinced it's a high priority yet. I'm not getting THAT much splashing/noise and think I can tune it out via other methods. And anecdotally, evap doesn't seem like an issue yet. I don't have solid data but can't tell that the ATO is running that much more now vs. before it was online.

I took a photo of the algae growth on it this morning but it's on the DSLR which means I'm too lazy to upload. :lol: There's also a lot of diatom-like growth in the sump itself, thanks to the ATS lights. I may do a water change this weekend and try to scrape it off to help with nutrient removal. The DT is pretty much free of growth of any kind at this point but of course the tank is still young, and I've got plenty of targeted "pest algae" grazers if/when growth does start.

Cool beans!! Thanks wille. That makes a lot of sense and sounds like it is easy to maintain. I think I'll follow suit when I make mine. I don't think I can get mine into the sump but I'm sure I can make one and have it gravity feed back into the sump. Can't wait to see your pictures. Thanks.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I'm waiting for someone to perfect a bacteria scrubber - i.e. a method to dose carbon to encourage bacterial growth, as done with vodka dosing, but in a manner that the bacteria grow on an easily-cleaned substrate/screen instead of free-floating in the water, so they could be removed without a skimmer. IMHO this would be an ultimate technique; it would have all the advantages of a turf scrubber without the light requirement. It would pretty much be a zero-add-energy-cost method of nutrient removal.

It is here, but with mixed results. Look for bio pellets. If you can't find them ask for links.

The pellets are a biodegradable plastic (beleived to be PLA and PHA IIRC). The idea is that the bacter will grow on the pellers and they degrade releasing carbon. Usually in some sort of a media reacotr. The output of the reactor is then directed at a skimmer and most of the bacteria is skimmed out. Both phosphate and nitrogen is removed from the water.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Cool beans!! Thanks wille. That makes a lot of sense and sounds like it is easy to maintain. I think I'll follow suit when I make mine. I don't think I can get mine into the sump but I'm sure I can make one and have it gravity feed back into the sump. Can't wait to see your pictures. Thanks.

Another option is to have it above the display tank if you have room in your hood. Then it can run off the main return line, eliminating the need for extra pump capacity.

It is here, but with mixed results. Look for bio pellets. If you can't find them ask for links.

The pellets are a biodegradable plastic (beleived to be PLA and PHA IIRC). The idea is that the bacter will grow on the pellers and they degrade releasing carbon. Usually in some sort of a media reacotr. The output of the reactor is then directed at a skimmer and most of the bacteria is skimmed out. Both phosphate and nitrogen is removed from the water.

See, that's cool and all, but still requires a skimmer to remove the waste/bacteria. I'd rather have a removal method that doesn't require a skimmer, i.e. a screen that could be pulled out and scraped off, or something like that.

Browsing another forum that concentrates on the subject of turf scrubbers, I recently came across a post by a gentleman who was running a scrubber longterm on a large tank. He was averaging 6 - 7 POUNDS of algae (drained weight) removed weekly!

 

[username in use]

6-7 lbs a week, holy crp!!!!!!! Thats unbelievable. Do you know how big the tank was?

 

[XSiVE]

Browsing another forum that concentrates on the subject of turf scrubbers, I recently came across a post by a gentleman who was running a scrubber longterm on a large tank. He was averaging 6 - 7 POUNDS of algae (drained weight) removed weekly!

I wonder if you could press & dry that stuff and turn it into tang food...

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

It's a 300g tank, the scrubber is the only method of nutrient export. Some of the photos are insane.

XSiVE, it's more or less green hair algae, not the kind of thing most tangs want to eat. That said, it is a pretty hilarious thought. I could sell my trimmings to other local reefers to feed to their tanks. :lol:

On an unrelated note, I'm starting to get the crazy notion that it would be "fun" to culture all or most of the food for this tank, i.e. grow (and enrich) brine shrimp, rotifers, or other plankton, instead of relying on dead/frozen foods.

 

[Taqpol]

On an unrelated note, I'm starting to get the crazy notion that it would be "fun" to culture all or most of the food for this tank, i.e. grow (and enrich) brine shrimp, rotifers, or other plankton, instead of relying on dead/frozen foods.

Not crazy, but it can take a fair amount of time and space and you have to be very careful about using sterile technique. I know there are a lot of good books out there about this subject, are you thinking about getting one of them?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I might just "play" with it for a while. I have other hobbies (homebrewing) that have taught me sterile habits so no worries there. Plenty of space on a table next to the water change station down in the basement, or I could use space in the stand since it's pretty much half empty. So it really just comes down to the time aspect, and I have the feeling that it could be streamlined somewhat to the point that you're just pouring/netting "stuff" back and forth for a minute or two each day.