MTC skimmer club!

[goreef170]

Oh and it's either a normal prop made to move water or the prop is designed to shred air like a needle/pin/mesh "wheel". They don't use both at the same time.

OK, Now i'm getting the pic...Thanks Jason for explaining this

I do like the wave line dc 12000, but to be honest from what i've seen so far on different web sites, they don't get good review....not sure why. Hope yours does well for you.

One more question if you don't mind, what do you mean by the Fluval sp4 doesn't have good head height ? 13' shut off ? what does that mean ??

 

[jason2459]

OK, Now i'm getting the pic...Thanks Jason for explaining this

I do like the wave line dc 12000, but to be honest from what i've seen so far on different web sites, they don't get good review....not sure why. Hope yours does well for you.

One more question if you don't mind, what do you mean by the Fluval sp4 doesn't have good head height ? 13' shut off ? what does that mean ??

The original waveline that came out had several issues. The second version fixed some pump issues but still had controller issues. The Apex ready version fixes the controller issue and swaps out the prop assembly giving it even more head height. You don't have to have an apex to use it.

I haven't seen many complaints with this latest revision but doesn't mean there won't be. As with anything everything will break at some point.

 

[goreef170]

Can you let me know what you mean by Head height and 13' shut off on the fluval sp4 ? What does this mean and how would affect the performance on skimmer.

Thanks again Jason for your time ! You are very knowledgeable

 

[jason2459]

Can you let me know what you mean by Head height and 13' shut off on the fluval sp4 ? What does this mean and how would affect the performance on skimmer.

Thanks again Jason for your time ! You are very knowledgeable

Max Head height is the height at which the flow becomes 0. There's a lot that goes into that and not just vertical height. Fittings, pipe diameter, pipe/tube types, etc.

When you see a pump advertised for a certain flow rate thats at 0 head pressure. Usually many pumps will provide a rated flow curve that shows the flow rate from 0 head to its max head height.

 

[jason2459]

Like here's the chart for the apex ready waveline dc12000

With no pressure flow = 3170gph
7 meters = 22' 11.59" and flow is 0

And here's the stats for the fluval sp6
0 head flow = 3434gph
@ 13' flow is 0

So at 13' when the SP6 is shutdown the Waveline dc12000 is still pushing close to 1000gph

 

[goreef170]

Ok...I see what you are saying...

In my application, I'm just installing the skimmer in sump with just the pump connected by a rubber tubing up to the skimmers barbed connection which is about 20" in height. will be using 3/4 tubing, on my 34" skimmer. So head height pressure doesn't really matter to my application...right ??

 

[jason2459]

Ok...I see what you are saying...

In my application, I'm just installing the skimmer in sump with just the pump connected by a rubber tubing up to the skimmers barbed connection which is about 20" in height. will be using 3/4 tubing, on my 34" skimmer. So head height pressure doesn't really matter to my application...right ??

It very much matters in our application. You have the height to push up, 3/4 tubing, two 90 degree elbows, a restricting venturi thats maybe 3/8 opening(I haven't measured but now curious), air drawing in' another 2 90, a 45, a T fitting, and several unions and a ball valve.

Here's a head loss calculator
http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator

For a mag 18 with everything above except the venturi and air in consideration the results are:

Total losses are 9.6 feet of head pressure, or 4.15 PSI. with a flow rate of 866 GPH. Process took 72 iterations.

Then with the mazzei injector in place the head pressure much higher.

 

[goreef170]

It very much matters in our application. You have the height to push up, 3/4 tubing, two 90 degree elbows, a restricting venturi thats maybe 3/8 opening(I haven't measured but now curious), air drawing in' another 2 90, a 45, a T fitting, and several unions and a ball valve.

Here's a head loss calculator
http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator

For a mag 18 with everything above except the venturi and air in consideration the results are:

Total losses are 9.6 feet of head pressure, or 4.15 PSI. with a flow rate of 866 GPH. Process took 72 iterations.

Then with the mazzei injector in place the head pressure much higher.

I think at this point , I will email Jeff and ask him what pump he recommends and perhaps just go with his recommendation. I will let you know his response
. I'm not doubting any thing you are saying, but I think at this point is go to the manufacturer and get his advise. ( There are so many choices ) it does get a bit confusing ...... I will be in contact with you.....Thanks !

 

[jason2459]

I think at this point , I will email Jeff and ask him what pump he recommends and perhaps just go with his recommendation. I will let you know his response
. I'm not doubting any thing you are saying, but I think at this point is go to the manufacturer and get his advise. ( There are so many choices ) it does get a bit confusing ...... I will be in contact with you.....Thanks !

Yes, there's lots of choices. Confusing is a con but the benifits of not being locked into a single pump or being able to easily try different ones is a big plus.

Definitely talk with Jeff and let us know what he says. His site shows their base recommendation. I would not go with the mag 12. And like I've said before the Mag 18 will do ok. It did much better then I thought it would when trying it out.
http://www.marinetechnical.com/page19.html

 

[goreef170]

Yes, there's lots of choices. Confusing is a con but the benifits of not being locked into a single pump or being able to easily try different ones is a big plus.

Definitely talk with Jeff and let us know what he says. His site shows their base recommendation. I would not go with the mag 12. And like I've said before the Mag 18 will do ok. It did much better then I thought it would when trying it out.
http://www.marinetechnical.com/page19.html

Will do Jason !

Thanks for all your help and input :beer:

 

[lcf425]

Jason anyway to tell if the pump doesn't have enough pressure ?

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[jason2459]

Jason anyway to tell if the pump doesn't have enough pressure ?

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

You mean handle pressure? There's a lot of external pumps that are pressure rated and their flow curve maintains a good amount of flow through out that curve.

For internal pumps the best thing we can do is try and use one rated for a higher max head height. I'm not sure if there is a pressure rated internal pump yet. Maybe Abyzz is? As their head height capacity is very high but I haven't looked.

 

[goreef170]

As of now these are my 3 choices...Will see if Jeff has any input..

1. Danner Mag Drive 1800
2. Fluval Sea SP4
3. Jebao DCS - 9000

 

[jason2459]

As of now these are my 3 choices...Will see if Jeff has any input..

1. Danner Mag Drive 1800
2. Fluval Sea SP4
3. Jebao DCS - 9000

I'd suggest the SP6 over the 4. I'd also suggest the Jebao dcp 10000 or dcs 12000 over the dcs 9000.

 

[goreef170]

I'd suggest the SP6 over the 4. I'd also suggest the Jebao dcp 10000 or dcs 12000 over the dcs 9000.

Thanks Jason for watching over me :beer:

I will definitely look into your choices !

 

[goreef170]

Jeff called me today, and I asked him about pump selections. He said that he really isn't familiar with the line of DC pumps, cause he never used them. He did recommend the mag drive 1800. We also talked about the Fluval sp pumps and he recommended the SP4. He saw this video and seemed to think that the sp4 performed very well. The video shows it on a 34", MTC, which is the same as mine.

http://www.*********.com/threads/mtc-mvx-skimmer-review.214926/

Sorry copy and paste isn't working on the link...

 

[jason2459]

Jeff called me today, and I asked him about pump selections. He said that he really isn't familiar with the line of DC pumps, cause he never used them. He did recommend the mag drive 1800. We also talked about the Fluval sp pumps and he recommended the SP4. He saw this video and seemed to think that the sp4 performed very well. The video shows it on a 34", MTC, which is the same as mine.

http://www.*********.com/threads/mtc-mvx-skimmer-review.214926/

Sorry copy and paste isn't working on the link...

That's R2R.

Please note that person swapped out the mazzei to a 784. My experience with the 784 and according to mazzei's spec sheets is it allows more flow which would help the sp4 and mag18. But at the same time a pump with better pressure rating pushes through a lot more air.

But again, the mag 18 will do ok. I would go with mag 18 over the sp4.

The SP4 only has 11.8' max head height.

 

[jjvanb]

Finally getting around to posting photos of my 30" MVX. I am using a mag 18 to drive it and have been very happy so far. I have never posted photos to a forum before, so shall see how it goes...

Before cleaning..



Afterwards..

 

[lcf425]

Jason I will try to find a waveline in Singapore to test things out as i have a shop with 3 mtc to play around

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

 

[jason2459]

Here's from earlier in this thread showing the air draw differences between a mag18 and the waveline and two different mazzei injectors.

The 784 definitely allowed more air draw and flow.

Some cool stats update 4


Aquamaxx Em 300
Air draw: ~38 scfh
Watts: rated 27watts actual: 31.38watts
Skimmate produced: ~1 cup dry/day and ~3cups wet/day low side


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mag18 as return pump w/ ~12' head height
Max head height:16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 71.18watts
Flow: rated 1500gph@0 head actual: ~750gph@12' head pressure

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mag18 with MVX stock 684 mazzei venturi
Air draw: ~12 scfh
Max head height:16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 62-63watts
Skimmate produced: ~3 cups dry/day high side


Mag18 with 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~14scf
Max head height: 16.85'
Watts: rated 150watts actual: 65-66watts
Skimmate produced: ~3 cups dryish/day low side

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~18scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 114wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~4 cups dry/day


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~22scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 128wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dryish/day!!!


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~24scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 142wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dry/day


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 684 mazzei
Air draw: ~24scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 147wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~5.5 cups dry/day


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~22scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 114wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~3 cups dry/day


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~22scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 128wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~5.5 cups dry/day


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~24scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 143wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dry/day


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 784 mazzei
Air draw: ~26scfh
Max head height: 22.96'
Watts: rated: 150watts (w/ adapter) 139watts (after adapter) actual: 150wattts (w/ adapter)
Skimmate produced: ~6 cups dry/day



Will calculate out the efficiency/performance thing next. but right now I have to rip apart a power bar... ha!

I couldn't be happier with the waveline with it's higher head pressure rating compared to other (affordable) internal AC or DC pumps out there.

Adding on now to what I started to put together before.

So lets see some form of percentage of the ratio between cups dry produced vs wattage vs. air draw used
Aquamaxx Em 300
vs. wattage used: 3.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 2.6% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


MTC MVX with Mag18 and MVX stock 684 mazzei venturi
vs. wattage used: 4.8% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

MTC MVX with Mag18 and 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.5% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 21.4% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 3.5% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 22.2% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.7% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 27.3% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 684 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 3.7% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 22% "performance"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 8 w/ 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 2.6% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 13.6% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 9 w/ 784mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 10 w/ 784mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4.2% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 25% "performance"

Waveline DC 12000 @ Level 11 w/ 784 mazzei
vs. wattage used: 4% "efficiency"
vs. air draw: 23% "performance"



This is all fully assuming that the skimmate production would be exactly the same time after time at each of those levels. Which it's been really pretty steady but I'm sure what pulls 6 cups per day one time might pull 5.5 cups per day and reverse. But I don't see something pulling 3 cups per day gaining that much ground or reverse.

So, my totally unscientific conclusion which is most likely wrong is:

Waveline DC 12000 @ level 9 with the stock 684 mazzei is the winner for highest performance ratio of cups produced to air draw.
Mag 1800 with the stock 684 mazzei is the winnder for highest efficiency ratio of cups produced to wattage used

If looking for as much air draw as possible to say for aeration purposes the Waveline DC 12000 @ level 11 w/ the 784 mazzei is the winner.

If looking for a pump that runs cooler that will still produce something you'd be happy with then the Mag 18 w/ 784 venture. (produced about the same amount of skimmate as with the 684 but it was dryer so could produce more wetter.)

Definitely some unexpected results as I figured the waveline with the 784 was going to really kick the 684's butt. But, what I think is happening, the waveline handled the head height so well the more restricted 684 didn't hurt it at all. The 784 did help the mag18 that doesn't have near the head height rating. In fact I think the 684 may have produced a finer bubble with the waveline vs. with the 784.


and in the end YMMV

There's more I plan to play around with on this skimmer but going to take a break from it for a bit and get back to some other things like my saltmix parameter testing and thread.