My 1st 180 RR Project, Cust Built stand/canopy Tunzes etc..

WOW thats amazing!!! hmmm really makes ya think, I only read the 1st page and that amazed me enough, I will read the rest later tonight. Thanks for that link Paul, that is defentaly worth reading all of it. I was always the type to make sure no skimate crapola fell into the sump, now after reading that I can give a rats a** if some falls in there!!!VERY interesting reading.

Are you practicing that technique for your tank at all??
 
That is an interesting thread captbunzo. I dont add no chemicals to my water. I only do a water change once a month on the first, which reminds me--Im due. But this is only a person's success. Like he said, he'll still need some more months to really see if this method works
 
Note that as you read through there that there are some good conversations about using those techniques and variations thereof. I am using what I think of as a relatively natural method for maintaining my reef tank. Check out the thread for my description. But I will cut and paste here, as well...

I myself fall somewhere in between on this all. I have a tendency toward the gadgets, but mostly since I just like to build and play with them. Let me describe my methodology for my 55g reef, for a bit.

1. I have about 50-60 pounds of rock in the tank. About 25 was "live rock" from other hobbiest tanks, bought recycled. The rest was added to my tank during various phases over the last year, most of it up front.

2. Water flows out an in tank horizontal overflow and into the skimmer chamber of my sump where I am running a Coralife Super Skimmer 125. I believe the Coralife Super Skimmers are actually pretty decent for an inexpensive skimmer.

3. Water then flows into a refugium which grows a nice crop of Chaetomorpha. Water circulates back and forth from the refugium to both a PhosBan Reactor (where I run carbon & phosban) and a RDSB built into a 5g water cube.

4. Water is returned to the tank via a Mag 7 pump. It returns via a SCWD, which is about all the switching current I really think is neccasary. In the main tank, I have a pair of SEIO m620 for my primary water circulation.

5. Top-off is performed via an auto top-off system that I had a lot of fun soldering together with parts from Radio Shack. :) It adds about 7 gallons of Kalkwasser to the system a week, which is doing an excellent job at keeping Calcium and Alkalinity roughly in the right place. I test those values, and more, every week or two and use Randy Holmes-Farley's 2 part DIY mix as required to get the values back to the right level.

6. I don't do water changes as often as I would like. I end up doing about 5 gallons every 2 weeks, which comes to about 15% a month. My goal would be closer to 5 gallons every week. However, I am not actually sure if that really matters all that terribly much.

7. I keep a standard garden-variety collection of hard and soft corals in the tank. Lighting is provided with a bank of five 54W T5HO bulbs (3 10k, 2 actinic). I keep some SPS corals (an acro, a monti cap, a couple monti digitata, some pavona) higher up on my rock struture. Down low are the majority of my more agressively growing soft corals such as xenia, GSP, kenya, etc. Also down there are a couple of brain corals and a pair of sun corals (one orange, one black). Also scattered around the tank are a variety of zoanthids, some ricordea, a mushroom or 2, etc.

8. Fish include the following: 2 ocellaris clownfish, 1 scopas tang, 1 rainford goby, 3 pj cardinals, and 1 yellowtail damsel. Other inverts include my collection of shrimp which all hang out together as if in a little gang (2 skunk cleaner, 4 peppermint), 2 starfish (1 brittle, 1 serpent), a couple emerald crabs, and a couple porcelein crabs. Of course, as well, I have a variety of snails and a handful of hermit crabs.

9. Lastly, we feed quite a bit. We will regularly add some dry foods during the day (which include cyclopeeze and other stuff). And then we have what I think of as the day and night frozen food mixes. The contents of those is a lot of what Eric lists in his reef tank food recipe. The night mix happens to be heavier on larger items, such as mysis, as it is used to target feed the sun corals and LPS corals. We feed the day mix regularly during the week, and the night mix as often as possible (hopefully a couple times a week).

10. Really lastly, I also keep some halimeda in the main tank, which I love. I think I would really enjoy doing more of a planted reef aquarium someday. I'll have to think about that...

I think this works pretty well. My estimation is that water quality seems to be pretty good in that phosphates and nitrates are very low, corals all show good growth, polyp extension, etc. And things SEEM to be pretty happy. We enjoy the tank and feel like we have created something more on the natural side of things. (Which may or may not be true)

I don't fall into the "skimmerless" crowd. I think they are great preventative water quality mechanisms. I also think they allow me to feed heavily without my water turning to nastiness.
 
Thats one of the best explanations ive read!!! Very good and detailed!! I am excited to finish reading that thread ya linked to me.

Thanks for all your input and the explaination of your tank, much appericated!!!
 
detailed yes but not all truth. not getting into it just alot of .... in there. talking about the guys tank not the cycling thing by eric.
from the pro's is a pretty good laugh also. the guys in it for money are the pro's lol
captbunzo I am not messing with you I promise it is just easy for newer people to be misled and I personally think that guys approach is very misleading since we don't have the resources he has available to him. our natural water here in florida is full of junk and alot worse stuff. those bulbs are alot more than $2 each here also. mike is a personal friend I will be on the phone with when he is freaking out because \his sump is full of foam because he poured his skimmate back in the tank. not sure if you have ever seen what happens when you actually do that. a cup of skimmate dumped back into your tank will blow the top off your skimmer and fill your sump with foam. I have even seen the foam in the sump overflow. a very nasty mess to say the least.
again not trying to be a jerk . Mike has made alot of progress and has acro's in his tank already which I wouldn't have done but doing anything that guy does will be the end of expensive life.
the seond link I have read before and think it's a great read.
 
Ya most defentaly correct , I would have called ya in a panic!!! LOL :D I never would have thought that, that would happen........
 
rob -

I am not messing with you. But I do believe that you missed the ENTIRE point of the first thread that I posted. If you read VERY carefully, all folks involved (including the tank guy and the pro), were careful to admit that the way the guy did the tank was not for everyone and that the way he is doing things is largely based on availability of supplies (both pro and con).

I don't beleive the thread EVER suggests seriously that you "dump skimmate back in your tank". Rather, it suggests that we don't really know what skimmate is and that it is worth further study. It also suggests that skimming may not actually be necessary for some types of setup.

For instance, I have a 20g tank with soft corals and a hammer coral in it. The tank does wonderful - without a skimmer, phosban reactor, or any such stuff. And do to time constraints, it rarely gets water changes. Yet the corals are exploding in there. Is it the best example of tank? No... But does it work, yes.

Second example, my 55g tank was skimmerless for quite a long. However, due to elements such as my RDSB (added from the beginning), use of a fine grade aragonite (2-3 inches) in the main display tank, and the use of PROPER flow, the tank was fine without one. Now, I made a project out of improving my water quality conditions from what I thought was "good" to "great", and added a skimmer and phosban reactor. It did exactly as expected.

However, I still am not sure it was actually necessary.

And lastly, the bit I think is most offensive and inappropriate in your post is these sorts of comments: "the guys in it for money - are the pro's lol". That statement shows profound ignorance. The money these guys pull out of this is trivial. Their monthly stipend from the forum site (marine depot) is VERY small. And the amount they make on book sales brings the time they put into it at WELL below minimum wage.

So if, as you say, they are in it for the money - then were exactly is all that money?

I mean - I a work as a computer consultant and I sure as HECK am in it for the money - I get paid well. That too me is being it it for the money - the money ACTUALLY follows the effort. But I can promise you this: These guys are either NOT in it for the money, or are morons for not realizing the money has not, is not, and will not be coming any time soon.

Mike - I cannot overemphasize how seriously I encourage you to peruse those forums over with Eric, etc. NO OFFENSE INTENDED to anyone here. However, the quality of information in those forums is staggering. And, btw, EXPERIENCE (i.e. years in this hobby) means nothing. I know a LFS owner who has been managing stores and has had a reef tank for over 15 years. And the advice he gives folks is horrifyingly bad.

Be very aware of the real qualifications of anyone coming to you with advice.
 
Also, rob, I do wish you would spend a little more time over in those forums before you passed judgement on those guys.
 
not to keep beating this but how can he not be saying it if the thread starter says I don't count me having a skimmer since it only pulls out a cup a week and I dump it back into my tank? I also take the skimmate from my wifes tank and dump it in also? I think it was his wife. a cup a week is alot for that size tank.

I did not mean the money from a forum sorry if it appeared that way. I meant from the hobby in total. writting books giving lectures whatever total. and I truely don't mean everyone everytime. just a few instances that make me think twice. in it for the money is my way of saying it's just there job and they have to come up with something. look at the beloved "dr.ron" he has single handedly killed more tanks than anyone else could ever think of because of his so called studies. the proof is right here on this board.
it's good you are learning and returning but your just not the only one.
 
oh yeah I have spent time with those guys and for the most part there ok with me. I have been doing this more than 1 year I have had alot of time to spend.
 
Hey Rob, Glad ya made it back ok!! Does it matter what kind of panty hose I can use, to do what that Steve said at Johns house? What I mean by that is panty hose are died and is there a certian color thats better than others because of the dye maybe like the nuede color panty hose!!!!! LOL :D
 
I don't know what panty hose are made of. for what he was saying I just ruin a bowl and lid and keep it around. I just drill a bunch of small holes in the bowl. I have pretty clear ones that light somewhat penetrates. put it lid down.
 
Okey dokey!!!! I shall try that!! The wife thought the Toll Booth story was funny!!! :D LOL

And she also told me to tell you Thanks to you and Margie for the gift for Jesse.....
 
Welp the wife and I have been talking about something, kinda kicking around the idea of making my sons room into the office/sump room. Now that I got a laptop, Im really never in there anymore. And moving my son of course into where the office was. This way I can put the electrical and pumps etc. in the other room, and making the tank silent. I would also add the Ro/DI in there and make water changing/testing possible in that room also ( I need to do something with it anyways ). So this might be the next project for us to conquer!! Im looking for maybe some tips and/or Ideas that I might not thought about!!:)

Thanks in advance for the help....
 
OK we have decided that we are going to go ahead and do this. If anyone who is reading this knows of someone selling a cheap 125 to a 150 or maybe even bigger please let me know, I dont care if it has a bunch of scratches, just can not leak. Ohh also I need it to be non drilled. Thanks
 
mike rubbermade makes big stock tanks that would work great for that. tractor supply in your neck of the woods. you can get up to 300 gallons if you want it. as little as 50 gallons. it can easily be drilled if you need to for floats or whatever. already has a bulkead in the bottom front if you want to hook your pump up to it.
 
Yeah I thought about them, but the room that it will be in wouldnt be good with something that wide. I was going to buy a 100 gall one , one day and decided not to. If the room was liked Teds (just dedicated to a sump room) than I would go for it. But ill have my desk in there as well as all my computer stuff and with the water changing station theres not too much room left. But thanks for the suggestions!!!
 
Ohh yeah, I had SteveM over the house yesturday to look at my idea of what we want to do. I asked him a million questions and think we figured everything out, the only crapy part is that I might need to get new bulkheads because of the way the new plumbing needs to go. I already know I am going to need to buy more plumbing but Im pretty sure that I can re-use the existing plumbing for my socks that Rob built for me. So the plumbing part will not be too expensive. The 75 gall that I am using for a sump now Im thinking of converting it over to either a fuge or a frag tank once I start fragging. But Im going to hold on to the 75 for future use. Boy I just wish I would have had a laptop and this idea before we even starting the origional plumbing!! It would have been done already, but it makes for a good project for the month!!! :D
 
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