My 500G Osama Reef-2

[Osama]

Thanks Steve Much more reasonable procedure for testing reef/tank water ...

 

[SPotter]

i would try testing it both ways and see how the readings come out. I had heard that on hanna checkers they say not to shake violently because it wont give you an accurate reading. I will be interested to see the results. Just an FYI....when you need order reagents for the tester amazon had the best price the last time I ordered them.

 

[Osama]

Good info about Amazon. I ordered my tester thru them as well I am a Prime member so free shipping helps. I will test tomorrow or day after (Installer is here tomorrow) and will inform of results.

 

[Osama]

Fish Sources in Chicagoland

Fish Sources in Chicagoland

I would appreciate input on where to shop for good variety healthy fish & good prices. Not asking for much? in the Chicago area. MPSTI suggested reefwise.. any opinions on reefwise ( are they in downtown I have to google for location) and other suggestions are appreciated.. thanks..

 

[Osama]

Thoughts on Auto or manual weekly water changes

Thoughts on Auto or manual weekly water changes

I would like my system to be fully auto controllable with APEX.. My installer Matt that I have known for years is recommending that we do the water change manually. Meaning we agree to change say 50g weekly for my system of almost 700g max total volume and say about 500g volume of water excluding rocks etc...
My setup: 4 tanks upstairs including sump refuge and frag plus main tank. RODI and two 65g water storage tanks in basement. Both water storage will be filled and salt mixed via internal pumps. A larger pump yet to be bought is to pump salt water to tank upstairs. The weekly drainage of 50 gallons & refill of 50g will be manually activated. I would prefer A RELIABLE WAY to do it automatically. Matt does not like Genesis system and I have not read about it .. Advise/suggestions please.
Yesterday we hooked up a safety overflow drain to avoid future floods and piped the return piping for saltwater.. connected the skimmer to the drain and that was a big relief for me as the skimmer was really scaring me overnight filling a 5g bucket as I am attempting to tune it..

 

[monkiboy]

i've had the genesis reef system for a few years now and am curious why matt does not like it. can you indicate his reasoning?

did you consider using an avast skimmate locker like their 5-gallon lid or even using on a larger vessel if you prefer with such a larger skimmer? have a skimmer overflowing as much as it wants into a drain doesn't seem like a great idea. rather having it go into a vessel that when full send you an apex email and cell phone text message alert seems the preferred way to go. can you elaborate on that decision as well?

i'm really enjoying this build and evaluating the decisions made by yourself and your professional team - it makes me think more critically about the similar topics i'm dealing with on my larger build. thank you for sharing!

 

[Osama]

Hi monkiboy.. thank You for your interest in my thread. I like RC for the quality of members and the info available... Regarding
Genesis: Would U please expand on your thoughts what you like and possibly dislike about Genesis. Matt is a LFS owner and setups new tanks and is also in the maintenance service... He builds his own opinion and does not really expand on the why too much . I will be seeing him Tuesday and see if he would elaborate.. I personally need to educate myself on Genesis before I am done with my setup.
Skimmate locker: I used a similar PM4 (I believe) in my previous 320g about 4 years ago and disconnected it. and had my skimmate go directly into drain. I prefer to have less work and after I tune my skimmers (usually 2-3 months) I mark the skimmer valve as to where it works best for me and leave it there then the only cleaning is the head. I am considering buying into the head cleaning If u or anyone has experience with them I would be very interested. Less work and effective = I am interested. Also every morning if my sump low level f switch is triggered (not installed yet) I will know that the skimmer is just wasting salt water and I will refine my skimmer tuning.. Max loss will be less than 5g of saltwater to be replaced. If I am traveling this way all can be viewed by wife/children and I can check via PC/Phone.

 

[Midnightt]

Hey Osama!!

I've personally seen the genesis in operation and what it took to install it. That system is awesome. However, always a however, it somewhat relies on gravity. From what I could tell the two 1 gallon vats had to be mounted higher then the tank. It used 2 little pumps. One in the sump, and one in the new saltwater bin to pump the water into the vats. The vats basically measured the water in and out to make sure it was spot on. These vats are not small by any standard and I'm not using the genesis because I don't want them mounted on my wall where I can see them. Secondly, they use a lot of tubing to get the water in and out. I remember that each vat had 2 hoses on it and they were 3/4" maybe. Not sure on that. But, it made it hard to hide everything.

The Apex can control an auto water change. But, it can not monitor how much is going in and how much is going out. Essentially, you are left up to programming how long to run a pump. One would hope that two pumps of the same type, brand, and model, would do the job. But, that isn't always the case. In our hobby little differences can really add up over time.

Some of the dosers allow you to calibrate the perilistic pumps in the dosing system so that if you set it to do an water change it would calculate how long it should run each pump to get the same amount of water in and the same out. The two that I can think of are the GHL unit, my favorite, and the Litermeter.

The problem with that is the calibration could change because one pump is wearing faster then the other or any number of other reasons. This could easily go un-noticed for a long period of time and mess with your parameters. So instead of doing water changes you should be essentially checking and re-checking the pump calibrations every so often.

 

[Osama]

Thanks Midnight. Also Matt relies less on electronics into water as they fail including sensors that can get clogged so if I need reliability when I am not around he recommends that I stay away from such gadget .. Water tanks are going to be like 35feet away from main tanks so they need to stand on their own. Here is what we are going for. Topping off will be automatic and controlled via a float valve in the sump pump area where water is quite turbulent from 4 pumps and expect very little to no deposits on the valve, a H & L water level alarms that I am adding so APEX will send me an email and manually initiate a water change... At least that is the thinking for now...

 

[monkiboy]

Regarding Genesis: Would U please expand on your thoughts what you like and possibly dislike about Genesis.

i like the incredible customer service that has been consistently amazing over the last four or so years from kevin @ genesisreefsystems. i like how easy it is and automated it is. all changes are done in 1-gallon increments. i can tell it to do 50 over the next day, continuously, over a week or whatever interval over a day, continuously, week, and i think month. they are small changes so no worries about matching temp, ph, etc and no shock to corals and fish. i keep my system tip top with waterchanges because they are incredibly easy to do - you push a button. i like how modern and clean the units are. i like the double and triple redundancies designed in the system. i like i don't have to figure out any code, type anything up, research, etc. just set it up once and you're good for the life of your tank. i like how it is maintenance free and controls the entire water change and ATO process and all i have to do is add salt to my salt water storage container.

what i dislike are all the float sensors. i've never had a failure result in a problem because of the redundancies built in but i dont like all the float sensors. and they go mounted onto 1/2" black pvc provided in shrouds at whatever appropriate working level in your reservoirs. i'm just meticulous like that and i like clean and tidy. so that being said, i will be using the avast pressure switch instead of the float sensor and their magenetic holder. and the avast pressure switch can be sold with the RKE connection which just happens to be PnP with the genesis reef system so i'm really looking forward to that. that's the only thing i can really think of i don't like. some folks balk at the price of the system, especially the "pro" version but as a package and time saver, and piece of mind, and stability it provides to my reef, i think it's a heck of a deal. that being said, they frequently put out coupon codes on the forums where they are sponsors during the holidays [/QUOTE]

Skimmate locker: I used a similar PM4 (I believe) in my previous 320g about 4 years ago and disconnected it. and had my skimmate go directly into drain. I prefer to have less work and after I tune my skimmers (usually 2-3 months) I mark the skimmer valve as to where it works best for me and leave it there then the only cleaning is the head. I am considering buying into the head cleaning If u or anyone has experience with them I would be very interested. Less work and effective = I am interested. Also every morning if my sump low level f switch is triggered (not installed yet) I will know that the skimmer is just wasting salt water and I will refine my skimmer tuning.. Max loss will be less than 5g of saltwater to be replaced. If I am traveling this way all can be viewed by wife/children and I can check via PC/Phone.

so i guess you are just going about it a different way. instead of hooking up a vessel with a pressure switch to the skimmer in case it overflows or when it gets full and shuts off your skimmer, you are instead i guess will have a low level indicator or valve in your return section that will presumably turn the return pump and/or the skimmer off? that sounds a bit more problematic or troublesome than just shutting off your skimmer when it's full or overflowing. some folks even put a pump in their skimmate locker to a drain so they don't have to ever see skimmate or smell it (the avast lock has a carbon cartridge to keep smells locked in). [/QUOTE]

i'm interested to see what system and method you find works best for you and its implementation - please keep us updated.

 

[Osama]

First & Foremost thanks for the detailed info & Pros Cons on the Genesis. Reliability and auto control when I am traveling so others at home do not have to worry is of utmost importance to me in my new system. That being said I have the main setup on the main floor and not directly over the basement where the water supply & water storage are located and I have 17 inches above the main tank for lights that can fit the two -one gallon reservoirs. Piping will have to travel over thirty five feet with about 6-8 bends. Is this setup workable with genesis?
Skimmer. If I can get this humongous skimmer to do what I was able to do with the PM, that it will be extremely fine and rewarding IMO to let the skimmer dump directly into the overflow drain. No moving parts .. if not then nothing is lost and I can do the vessel approach with an in vessel pump discharging into the drain. I did like the avast and may purchase their skimmer head cleaning gizmo.. after I finish the rest of the setup..
Will keep everyone posted and thanks for your interest and info provided.

 

[Midnightt]

Oh my. I forgot to mention the float switches. Holy cow they were all over the place. It was unbelievable how many switches there were.

 

[Osama]

Midnight .. Avast has an alternate to float sensors.. monkiboy states that one can buy pressure switch instead.. If I were to go the genesis route later on, I would go with the pressure switch.. For now I will see how the setup Matt is recommending works out as all the parts he is getting me are needed for the genesis system

 

[smb2415]

@Osama - for water changes this post covers the concept I am going to implement. I liked the genesis however I was not fond of all the float switches. I liked the 2 bins however I also know they're going to take up a bunch I room that I'd rather not sacrifice. Check out the post below.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2349824

this is the model pump I will be using and it can pump a decent head and length. It takes 1/4" or 3/8" tube and changes upto 170g. The posts talk about how to measure and adjust for various amounts (ex. run for 20min to change 7g).
http://www.lockewell.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_6_31_38&products_id=176

 

[Osama]

Thanks for sharing smb. I have to reread the article on how to do this setup. Intriguing but could not follow how to do it from my basement to 35 feet on upper floor and how four hoses are functioning drain upstairs and storage tanks downstairs etc... Need a re-read in the am.

 

[monkiboy]

Piping will have to travel over thirty five feet with about 6-8 bends. Is this setup workable with genesis?

you won't be using the eheim compacts that most use with their pro kit that's for sure, haha. but yes, that's totally possible. just got to find a pump that will pump up to that head height with a few hundred gph exactly or throttled back and use those. my setup has one that travels a good bit further with more head height so one 1-gallon vessel gets full much faster than the other when in operation but it doesn't matter because water is always filled and metered exactly before dispensing from both into drain or back in your system as part of a WC.

Skimmer. If I can get this humongous skimmer to do what I was able to do with the PM, that it will be extremely fine and rewarding IMO to let the skimmer dump directly into the overflow drain. No moving parts .. if not then nothing is lost and I can do the vessel approach with an in vessel pump discharging into the drain. I did like the avast and may purchase their skimmer head cleaning gizmo.. after I finish the rest of the setup..
Will keep everyone posted and thanks for your interest and info provided.

i find the cleaning head gizmo as you put it (avast calls it their swabbie) very useful and can't quantify its effectiveness other than saying i skim 236% better than without it, haha. in all seriousness, it seems that it does as intended and i have consistent performance from my monster skimmer and excellent skimmate. justin/dan do all kind of custom work so if you sent them your dimensions or your cap to your skimmer they'd get you setup in a jiffy.

 

[Osama]

Appreciate the detailed input monkiboy. I am getting a pump to pump that distance (just one) for my system as planned now So I will have one if I was to do the genesis. Thanks for sharing.
Swabbie/cleaning head gizmo... Mine will then do even better than 236% skimming than without it.. Appreciate the input

 

[Osama]

Need to buy a new Kalk reactor

Need to buy a new Kalk reactor

Any suggestions as to best brand and size for 500-700 gallons system? would be appreciated.

 

[monkiboy]

Any suggestions as to best brand and size for 500-700 gallons system? would be appreciated.

what's its intended purpose in your system? you can always add a dual or triple effulent chamber to your calcium reactor which is easier and more reliable/less worrisome.

 

[Osama]

monkiboy I am not sure of how that would be accomplished ( dual or triple chamber to my CR). In my previous experience my system used CR & Kalkwasser reactor.