My 65 Gallon Mixed Reef

[sahin]

Thanks for the reply Sahin,

Dimensions are 48 x 18 x 25, do you think the 8x54 would be better? I really wouldn't mind MH but I just cant find a good all in one fixture.

Hi mate, with the 25" front to back, I would still say a 6x54watt with a couple of reefbrites on either side would be just fine.

An 8x54watt will be better in terms of tube combo's etc, and you can add a single Reefbrite Royal Blue strip on the front, maybe another at the back if there is enough space.

However, for overall COLOUR POP and GROWTH, a 6 tube Sunpower with a couple of Reefbrites or even DIY Royal Blue strips will be more than enough. Plus its 2 less T5 tubes to replace.

Trust me, a Reefbrite supplementing an overall T5 system will be awesome.

Whether you go for 6 or 8 tube ultimately depends on how much you want to cover the tank with high PAR. If you want to reserve some space at the front for Zoas, chalices etc, then a 6 tube is probably more suitable. I've seen PLENTY of tanks beautiful SPS under 6 tube units.

 

[biggles]

Thanks for the kind words Brian, Sahin summed it up very well and i agree entirely with his suggestions. 2 x 150W Radiums with 2 T5's front and back would work great or single ended 250W's if you can find a suitable fixture.
The T5/LED combo will also give you great results so it's really up to you and any constraints present heat or running cost wise.

Hey Joe, it's all good mate. The first time i read it i was like 'hmmmm i'm not sure what all that means'....:fun5: I wouldn't be asking your advice if i thought you were having a real go at me mate, the british accent had me puzzled but i just figured that maybe you were off your meds or something..........

You have a pretty daughter mate (i worried about writing that the way things are now days) - i'll tell you what my son is like Joe......... even though i bought him an iphone he wanted a video ipod a few Xmas's back. 'but isn't the iphone an ipod with lots of extras ?' , 'if it was i wouldn't be asking for one'
- that's strike one boy.
I'm an idiot so i got him the ipod thing with 32gb like he wants and two weeks later he's snapped the earplug off where it plugs into the ipod and just thrown it in a drawer........
- that's strike two boy.
I look on the net and see tutorials on getting the ipod apart to easily fix this problem yourself. I'm handy so i get the butter knife and the boy is ' i think you should just pay apple to fix it dad ' ........ yeah of course i should pay.....
Whilst prying the side apart like in the ytube video i managed to twist the screen and make it go all rainbowy ruining the ipod and the boy says, now get this - 'whoa i told you, i guess we're going to the shops.'
- that's strike three boy !
You know how birds and other animals sense an earthquake and run before we know anything bad is coming.........the boy does too and hastily backed away, sitting with his laptop (me) like a shield. I said nothing but walked out the back and stomped the ipod to death. Whilst driving him to the shops to replace the then $300- ipod he actually enquired as to whether i would consider getting the 64gb model because, get this - ' that way you'll never have to upgrade it' - a few expletives silenced the conversation for the rest of the journey. He needs to shovel a whole lot of snow Joe.........

 

[BrianCash]

Thanks Sahin and Biggles, I think I'm just going to go with the 6x54 fixture and pick up 2 reefbrights for now.

I just wish I had everything in so I can start putting it all together, but hopefully that will be only another week. :headwally:

 

[JPMagyar]

the british accent had me puzzled but i just figured that maybe you were off your meds or something..........

- that's strike three boy !


He needs to shovel a whole lot of snow Joe.........

:ROTFLMAO:

First as I'm sure you must be aware it is every American boys dream to speak like a Brit 'cuz the silly American girls all go gaga over that stupid accent, but secondly I thought I had it bad when my daughter goes "Dad? . . . Can I go away on a 3 day weekend to Vermont with my boyfriend?" and I say . . . "with his parents?" and she says . . . "no just us". . . and I stare at her dumbfounded and she thinks I am the biggest clown on the planet because I wouldn't let her go. Your iPod story is precious!

. . . ahh to be 16 again.


On a much more thread worthy note, I think you asked me about T5s on my thread. It seems from my limited experience that the pure actinic bulbs do an incredible job of creating blue, purple, and green, but anything red or pink like a pink birds nest or ORA Red Planet just doesn't get that deep color saturation I enjoy. The Aqua Blue Special type bulb that puts out 10000k light or something close to it seems to help much better in that regard, but then your corals are all spectacular so I wouldn't change anything. I on the other hand being the crazy SPS nut that I am and hating my broken Sfiligoi fixture that I can't get fixed AND beginning to get mad that I ordered Pac Sun fixtures in October and PAID a ludicrous amount of money IN OCTOBER BUT still don't have said fixtures AND seeing the spectacular color of your corals under good 'ole 400 watt Radiums am now considering buying a Hamilton Cebusun with 400 watt Radiums and 4 T5s OR maybe just maybe going really crazy and buying the Giesemann Moonlight fixture so I can "have it all". Ahh, the grass is always greener. . .

 

[FastUno]

Wooooooaaaaa, wooooaaaaaaa, so you really think a " 2 x 150W Radiums with 2 T5's front and back would work great or single ended 250W's if you can find a suitable fixture." can grow corals like you?

That is ONE HUNDRED & FIFTY WATT MH's?????? And what replace bulbs every four months on them?

 

[sahin]

Biggles, as you may know, I run a bare bottom tank. However, lately I feel like adding sand into the display for two reasons: keeping a few wrasse, and aesthetics.

I''m afraid to add any sand due to potential algae issues. Do you follow any protocol when adding new sand into an established display? -My system is settling down nicely lately, and I don't want to bugger things up. I have Lanthanum Chloride on hand to treat any PO4 in the sand.

Would really appreciate your thoughts mate. :thumbsup:

 

[Bello]

Hey Bello, yes that stag is pretty cool. i actually think your stag is the same species as the other blue stag i have in this pic. It's a common type supplied by west Aus collectors. Hates direct flow and needs medium to high light to grow. The piece on the raft is in low flow and light and is pretty much shut down like your piece. I've seen them in rich teal green color too but i ignore those lol.

Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

I was gonna sump the acro to be honest, but now I'll give it a go. If there's even a 10% chance that it'll end up looking like yours, its worth it :thumbsup:

Mine was purplish initially, and had blue growth tips. I did however place it in high flow, high light :facepalm:. It was difficult to hold color on this one. Will give it a go with the low flow, and need to lower NO3 a bit as well, that should bring it out a bit

 

[biggles]

I on the other hand being the crazy SPS nut that I am and hating my broken Sfiligoi fixture that I can't get fixed AND beginning to get mad that I ordered Pac Sun fixtures in October and PAID a ludicrous amount of money IN OCTOBER BUT still don't have said fixtures AND seeing the spectacular color of your corals under good 'ole 400 watt Radiums am now considering buying a Hamilton Cebusun with 400 watt Radiums and 4 T5s OR maybe just maybe going really crazy and buying the Giesemann Moonlight fixture so I can "have it all". Ahh, the grass is always greener. . .

Lol Joe, i think 'the acros are always bluer' would be more apt for those of us continually second guessing our choices....... i'm glad i'm not alone mate

Wooooooaaaaa, wooooaaaaaaa, so you really think a " 2 x 150W Radiums with 2 T5's front and back would work great or single ended 250W's if you can find a suitable fixture." can grow corals like you?

That is ONE HUNDRED & FIFTY WATT MH's?????? And what replace bulbs every four months on them?

If you run Radiums with T5's and get your reef ticking along there's no reason you won't see great colors mate. I look at it this way, i know my lighting works great for colors and always has so knowing that allows me to concentrate on the reef and water in regards to getting the results i want. It removes a big variable in the 'is everything spot on' to get great results for me.
I probably overdo it with bulb changes, you could easily run any of the Radiums for 9 months without a drama imo.

Biggles, as you may know, I run a bare bottom tank. However, lately I feel like adding sand into the display for two reasons: keeping a few wrasse, and aesthetics.

I''m afraid to add any sand due to potential algae issues. Do you follow any protocol when adding new sand into an established display? -My system is settling down nicely lately, and I don't want to bugger things up. I have Lanthanum Chloride on hand to treat any PO4 in the sand.

Would really appreciate your thoughts mate.

Hey mate, i added crushed coral sand after rinsing it under tap water until the water was clear. I did notice the GHA went nuts on it within weeks, much worse than on the rocks in the first few months and i wasn't even feeding the tank anything but RO. In the end i pulled out all the sand and soaked it in a bucket with 10% liquid bleach in tap water. Washed it and let it dry in the sun for a week before adding it back to the display and never had a problem with it since except for it blowing all over the place. :hammer:
I think you should treat it to be safe or at least soak some in RO for a week and take a Hanna reading. Don't add it all at once either, add half and let it settle where it wants and watch it for a few weeks before adding the rest. If algae suddenly appears on it like mine i would think it may be leaching.
I'm going to pull all my sand down the track and replace with a larger grain as the 3mm has no hope with my flow and i don't like it becoming deeper in the areas it ends up blown into - 3" in places, too much muck gets trapped in that depth without the positives of a DSB.

Thanks for the info :thumbsup:

I was gonna sump the acro to be honest, but now I'll give it a go. If there's even a 10% chance that it'll end up looking like yours, its worth it :thumbsup:

Mine was purplish initially, and had blue growth tips. I did however place it in high flow, high light :facepalm:. It was difficult to hold color on this one. Will give it a go with the low flow, and need to lower NO3 a bit as well, that should bring it out a bit

Definitely give it less light and no hard direct flow, i blew the skin off a piece early days in one night. Remember when i got those stag branches ages back and they were pale baby blue, slightly deeper coloration now lol....


Okay we have a major drama kicking in the system right now and as usual it's my fault. I knew it was the water but everything tested fine. Alk etc at my normal levels and steady, nitates and phos dead low or zero....... The last few days i've seen a drastic loss of color and PE on a lot things. There's a definite drabness settling over everything just as i'd expect with dirty water and it's been worrying me. Used the last powder that came with the Hanna about 4 days back which gave 0.03 from memory. So today i used a new batch and i get 0.15 - what ! Test 2 gives me 0.15 and the third gives me -

I had a close look at the acros and some have STN on the tips where there was nothing before. Zero growth and PE is terrible. I have looked at macro closeups of the spots and see no sign of anything pesty. Even the pink stylos are turning a gacky shade of orangey pink rotten fruit color. The flubber thing has decided to sting the acro at last, it's odd that it only formed the spots on that particular area of edge growth prior to nuking the acro branch. Underneath the flubber there's a big clear jelly blob on the acro where the spotty plating thing is effectively consuming the acro tissue as we speak and that is tissue coming away from the corallites on the blue stag branch :facepalm:

So phos has gone from zero to hero in 4 days and i have a good idea why. The red macro was growing so fast in the sump it was smothering everything so i pruned it by about 95%, basically went from about a basketball sized amount to half a tennis ball. The sump also had a weird green slimy algae everywhere but hardly any in the display so i took the area offline and blew all the algae into the water where i removed it with a fish net. Confident my phos was back down low i've been feeding lots again and i now think i might have removed a huge phos sponge in the algae resulting in phos now showing in the water as it's not being rapidly consumed by the algae crop.
No idea tbh but everything was already stressed from the stupid alk spike and now i have the acros in what is poisonous water compared to what they are used to.
Of course i am also paranoid that i have bugs or some pest as well now because that's what SPS keeping is all about - stressing yourself out with worry lol.
I had 4 tablespoons of rowa in the sump, i now have 12. I've turned the blues down and the whites up in the sump to encourage any kind of nuisance algae i can to grow along with the red macro.

I thought i'd share my latest drama with you guys so you know how a few simple things put together can see drastic consequences. Removing such a large amount of algae is now keeping phos suspended in high levels in the water. That's just my opinion on what's up considering the things i've done lately that are out of the norm. I think i threw everything way out of balance taking the lagae offline so to speak.
I am sulking at the moment and ignoring the tank because it looks pretty sad right now - you know something bad is up when SSC lose tips, they never miss a beat normally. I can't believe how i still make so many stuff ups after all this time keeping acros, i think they're colorful despite me not because of me :rolleye1:
I've thrown the 250 Radium back in the reflector as i don't want them receiving high light when so stressed but i do want them to get full spectrum rather than just the T5's. If you look at the pic Bello quoted you can see the same blue stag branch above the flubber showing pigment loss and the very beginnings of white areas, that was taken just a few days back.

 

[Fail_sh3d]

Lol Joe, i think 'the acros are always bluer' would be more apt for those of us continually second guessing our choices....... i'm glad i'm not alone mate



If you run Radiums with T5's and get your reef ticking along there's no reason you won't see great colors mate. I look at it this way, i know my lighting works great for colors and always has so knowing that allows me to concentrate on the reef and water in regards to getting the results i want. It removes a big variable in the 'is everything spot on' to get great results for me.
I probably overdo it with bulb changes, you could easily run any of the Radiums for 9 months without a drama imo.



Hey mate, i added crushed coral sand after rinsing it under tap water until the water was clear. I did notice the GHA went nuts on it within weeks, much worse than on the rocks in the first few months and i wasn't even feeding the tank anything but RO. In the end i pulled out all the sand and soaked it in a bucket with 10% liquid bleach in tap water. Washed it and let it dry in the sun for a week before adding it back to the display and never had a problem with it since except for it blowing all over the place. :hammer:
I think you should treat it to be safe or at least soak some in RO for a week and take a Hanna reading. Don't add it all at once either, add half and let it settle where it wants and watch it for a few weeks before adding the rest. If algae suddenly appears on it like mine i would think it may be leaching.
I'm going to pull all my sand down the track and replace with a larger grain as the 3mm has no hope with my flow and i don't like it becoming deeper in the areas it ends up blown into - 3" in places, too much muck gets trapped in that depth without the positives of a DSB.



Definitely give it less light and no hard direct flow, i blew the skin off a piece early days in one night. Remember when i got those stag branches ages back and they were pale baby blue, slightly deeper coloration now lol....


Okay we have a major drama kicking in the system right now and as usual it's my fault. I knew it was the water but everything tested fine. Alk etc at my normal levels and steady, nitates and phos dead low or zero....... The last few days i've seen a drastic loss of color and PE on a lot things. There's a definite drabness settling over everything just as i'd expect with dirty water and it's been worrying me. Used the last powder that came with the Hanna about 4 days back which gave 0.03 from memory. So today i used a new batch and i get 0.15 - what ! Test 2 gives me 0.15 and the third gives me -

I had a close look at the acros and some have STN on the tips where there was nothing before. Zero growth and PE is terrible. I have looked at macro closeups of the spots and see no sign of anything pesty. Even the pink stylos are turning a gacky shade of orangey pink rotten fruit color. The flubber thing has decided to sting the acro at last, it's odd that it only formed the spots on that particular area of edge growth prior to nuking the acro branch. Underneath the flubber there's a big clear jelly blob on the acro where the spotty plating thing is effectively consuming the acro tissue as we speak and that is tissue coming away from the corallites on the blue stag branch :facepalm:

So phos has gone from zero to hero in 4 days and i have a good idea why. The red macro was growing so fast in the sump it was smothering everything so i pruned it by about 95%, basically went from about a basketball sized amount to half a tennis ball. The sump also had a weird green slimy algae everywhere but hardly any in the display so i took the area offline and blew all the algae into the water where i removed it with a fish net. Confident my phos was back down low i've been feeding lots again and i now think i might have removed a huge phos sponge in the algae resulting in phos now showing in the water as it's not being rapidly consumed by the algae crop.
No idea tbh but everything was already stressed from the stupid alk spike and now i have the acros in what is poisonous water compared to what they are used to.
Of course i am also paranoid that i have bugs or some pest as well now because that's what SPS keeping is all about - stressing yourself out with worry lol.
I had 4 tablespoons of rowa in the sump, i now have 12. I've turned the blues down and the whites up in the sump to encourage any kind of nuisance algae i can to grow along with the red macro.

I thought i'd share my latest drama with you guys so you know how a few simple things put together can see drastic consequences. Removing such a large amount of algae is now keeping phos suspended in high levels in the water. That's just my opinion on what's up considering the things i've done lately that are out of the norm. I think i threw everything way out of balance taking the lagae offline so to speak.
I am sulking at the moment and ignoring the tank because it looks pretty sad right now - you know something bad is up when SSC lose tips, they never miss a beat normally. I can't believe how i still make so many stuff ups after all this time keeping acros, i think they're colorful despite me not because of me :rolleye1:
I've thrown the 250 Radium back in the reflector as i don't want them receiving high light when so stressed but i do want them to get full spectrum rather than just the T5's. If you look at the pic Bello quoted you can see the same blue stag branch above the flubber showing pigment loss and the very beginnings of white areas, that was taken just a few days back.

Ugh... And here I am stressing the move.

Sorry about the new stress, mate. It'll bounce back.

 

[Fail_sh3d]

Also, I thought you were playing the "Guess the P04" game like in that other thread.

 

[biggles]

I left that thread for the guys with all the knowledge mate, all i know is my wild acros definitely do not like rapidly rising phos. That blue stag branch has lost twice as much tissue now - i probably should cut it off as it's heading to the base. Oddly enough the other piece in higher light and better growth is losing tissue off only the tips. All the SSC have filaments extended non stop which isn't good when no food is stimulating it, you can see the colors badly faded on stuff.
This hobby would be boring without me doing stupid stuff like this.......... i've decided to just watch the stag and document what happens no matter how bad. I'll test the phos daily and the fish will get a bit of nori each day until i clean the water up. No more drastic changes without thinking things through a bit more in future. :reading:

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Sorry to hear your phosphate induced (hopefully nothing else) troubles mate.

I keep chaeto in my sump. I had similar issues in the past when I removed at least 50% of it at a time. I remove only 10% every 10 days in these days in order not to change the water chemistry too drastically.

On a separate note, have you ever dosed organic carbon (e.g. vodka or vinegar)? At 8 ml per day (white distilled vinegar 5%), I am noticing an increased growth on my acroporas. Carbon dosing was supposed to be about primarily nitrate (and indirectly about phosphate) reduction, but organic carbon seems to be acting as a a turbo charger for my corals :twitch:.

 

[biggles]

Hi mate, thanks for the advice. I've never actually grown a macro algae for nutrient export before let alone carbon dosed which is why i didn't actually realise the consequences of heavy daily feeding coupled with the sudden removal of a large portion of the system's bio filtration.
It really is idiotic when i think how quickly the red macro was growing but then failed to recognise how large a part it was playing in actual phosphate removal within my reef. The poor old blue stag is breaking out with white spots down on the base now and the branch has lost more tissue. Things will get back under control over the next week or two and hopefully the acros that are worst affected will ride it out without too much damage.

This is a quick video of filaments in the middle of the day with no food stimuli placed in the water. The SSC has the most pronounced extension but acros all over have them out just much less pronounces. I'd have to say it's an irritant response because even the blue stag with STN has filaments out and i've never seen them on it or many of the others now displaying them before.

I have given this filament response the name TE - 'tantrum extension' since i'm fairly certain the whole reef is having a major dummy spit over the crap they're bathing in at the moment. The big poof of bubbles at the end of the video is one of the WP-25's suddenly deciding to suck air from the surface........... of course it would start doing that out of the blue right now, that's what SPS keeping is all about. If anyone asks you about SPS just use my description - running an obstacle course through a mine field whilst trying to paint a masterpiece. :fun4:

 

[sahin]

Oh no! :facepalm: Just watched the video mate, and that just looks crazy! Those acros do not look happy at all. I think your prognosis is correct.

We dont know how much PO4 that macro algae used to consume, but removing 90% or so of it means you just removed 90% of its PO4 removing capacity!

:deadhorse: - Thats me with the stick...you the horsie getting the beating...

My sweet SSC looks unhappy! :angryfire:

That is quite a bit of a jump in PO4, and we can clearly see the negative effect on the corals.

Now I know you are not too keen on the old water changes, but I would probably carry out a few 10% water changes every 5 days.

I say that because you wont believe how much I feed my tank these days and my PO4 doesnt move. I ONLY use GFO...I dont have any Chaeto or macroalgae in my sump etc. My sump just has water and equipment. I dont even have sand...the minimal rocks I have is my ONLY source of filtration (other than the GFO). So I have to infer that my water changes do help me out.

I feed at LEAST 2 (some days 3) cubes of non washed frozen mysis each day. I also add a pinch of Reef-roids. I also add a pinch or two of Flake food in the morning for an early snack. I've never fed my tank so much food! Some nights I even feed the SPS 1/2 a mashed Mysis cube.

Anyway, enough of me ranting...you know what you are doing...Just get those acros looking good again...

Or else I'll be hiring one of those Killer Kangaroos to come and :fun2:

 

[Fail_sh3d]

I left that thread for the guys with all the knowledge mate, all i know is my wild acros definitely do not like rapidly rising phos. That blue stag branch has lost twice as much tissue now - i probably should cut it off as it's heading to the base. Oddly enough the other piece in higher light and better growth is losing tissue off only the tips. All the SSC have filaments extended non stop which isn't good when no food is stimulating it, you can see the colors badly faded on stuff.
This hobby would be boring without me doing stupid stuff like this.......... i've decided to just watch the stag and document what happens no matter how bad. I'll test the phos daily and the fish will get a bit of nori each day until i clean the water up. No more drastic changes without thinking things through a bit more in future. :reading:

I couldn't agree more.

And those filaments are insanity. Things look angry. Very, very angry. Have you gone through with a water change?

 

[Dashylock]

Hey biggles - awesome tank mate! Been following you for a bit and just wanted to say your wisdom is greatly appreciated!

I have small tank, 40 breeder, so space is pretty limited. When gluing new frags down, how much space should I allow between frags? I am sure it is dependent on species and individual growth properties, but is there a general rule of thumb you go by? I was also wondering what happens if you place two frags 1" apart and they eventually grow within a hair of each other, will they engage in warfare or will they sprout upwards/outwards wherever there is no mutual competition for resources?

 

[biggles]

Hey guys, thanks for the advice and i agree entirely that water changes would be the very best thing to do to lower the phos rapidly. I'm working long hours atm so i can't get to the LFS for water until thursday when i have a day off I want to do a 20% change and another a week later so that will kill two birds with one stone. Considering my potassium was 300 instead of 400 due to no water changes i think it's likely that important trace elements are lacking for good growth. No idea but i do intend to start regular monthly water changes just to tick that box.

Anyway as far as the water goes now it tested at 0.13 today. More tissue damage is showing on some stuff, brown out kicking in on a few. Any time now the algae will probably take off in the display just when the acros are at their weakest to defend themselves. Acros will nuke algae just as they do to other competing acros at times - when they're healthy and growing, not when they're shut down.

I'll take a few pics tomorrow of some of the damage to the acros etc so you can see what i'm talking about. In the mean time here's a pic of the poor old blue stag after his encounter with the grumpy spotty coral last night. Considering they were only 1/8" apart it was bound to happen. I do find it typical flubber behavior to wait until the acro was sick before attacking.......... spotty better pull his head in or he's going to find out where he sits in the coral species pecking order of biggles tank.......:blown:

Hey biggles - awesome tank mate! Been following you for a bit and just wanted to say your wisdom is greatly appreciated!

I have small tank, 40 breeder, so space is pretty limited. When gluing new frags down, how much space should I allow between frags? I am sure it is dependent on species and individual growth properties, but is there a general rule of thumb you go by? I was also wondering what happens if you place two frags 1" apart and they eventually grow within a hair of each other, will they engage in warfare or will they sprout upwards/outwards wherever there is no mutual competition for resources?

Hi mate, thanks for the kind words my friend.

Ramble to follow..........

This is just some stuff from my experience but generally speaking if you treat your SPS a lot like plants when it comes to placement everything will make a lot more sense. If a plant needs more light it grows towards the light and so will acros. Shading is the most effective weapon in an acros arsenal and the one that will give you the more trouble the better you get at SPS keeping.
Acros that are stung on the first encounter do not always lose the fight. Quite often the wounded acro will regrow over the dead tissue but higher now and actually begin to overgrow the attacker. I need to take some top downs to show you different examples of acros meeting and the many different outcomes. Acros are very capable of altering their encrusting growth even to the extent of plating the encrusted growth out over the top of an aggressive neighbor like an umbrella in order to neutralise the stinging ability. The blue stag in the green monster acro is doing this which does two things. It prevents stinging of the top tissue and also discourages the attacker from growing towards it, acros don't put energy into dark areas they seek the light.
The simple subject of acros meeting is way, way more interesting than 'this one will sting that one' - i'm sure youve seen the closeups of the 2 acros i have which are both trying to build a higher wall than each other rather than stinging each other. You never know what is going to be the final outcome of any encounter.
I would say 2" is about the distance i allow for most of my stuff but you're right in that you need to allow for individual growth patterns along with light tolerances as well. As an example i would take a low light tabling acro over one requiring high light any day of the week. Tables by their very nature are like scrolling monti's and compete by blocking light so the lower you can grow them happily the less real estate you lose for placing other acros.
If you place a branch somewhere and a few months later the tips have increased substantially in diameter then chances are the flow is too strong compared to what it was used to either in the wild or aquaculture facility.
If a table starts growing more upright it needs more light.
I use the flow of my pumps to discourage growth into the open areas between some of my rock work simply by making a tunnel with the water flow into which surrounding acros will not grow. SPS do not grow towards water flow that will blow their tissue off but most reefers forget that the pumps have more use than simple flow if you use your noggin......:reading:

Pics of the different battles going on in my tank will make things easier to explain i think, atm nothing is growing so i'll wait until the acros are happy again and take some closeups for you. :beer:

An important thing to remember is even with aqua cultured acros they can react differently to your lighting and water than what you expect. You will never go wrong if you place everything new on the bottom for the first couple of days and just watch for PE at least at night before moving them. If it's a high light acro and it looks stressed in high light then drop it down, every tank is different so use species placement suggestions as a guide not something written in stone. If you're new to SPS it's hard at first because there are so many variables to account for between individual tanks we all keep but watching the way corals interact with each other and deal with problems is very cool to see day by day in your reef.

 

[Bello]

First off biggles, I doubt most reefers, myself included, would include such a detailed description of their cockups.......so Thanks!!! :thumbsup:

While, we know that rapid changes are never good, I've always heard that reducing PO4 too fast leads to RTN etc. Have never seen this side of the scale, where PO4 has risen too fast. I honestly would never have expected the acros to react so dramatically, so thanks to you ... I have learnt :thumbsup:

 

[Dashylock]

Hey guys, thanks for the advice and i agree entirely that water changes would be the very best thing to do to lower the phos rapidly. I'm working long hours atm so i can't get to the LFS for water until thursday when i have a day off I want to do a 20% change and another a week later so that will kill two birds with one stone. Considering my potassium was 300 instead of 400 due to no water changes i think it's likely that important trace elements are lacking for good growth. No idea but i do intend to start regular monthly water changes just to tick that box.

Anyway as far as the water goes now it tested at 0.13 today. More tissue damage is showing on some stuff, brown out kicking in on a few. Any time now the algae will probably take off in the display just when the acros are at their weakest to defend themselves. Acros will nuke algae just as they do to other competing acros at times - when they're healthy and growing, not when they're shut down.

I'll take a few pics tomorrow of some of the damage to the acros etc so you can see what i'm talking about. In the mean time here's a pic of the poor old blue stag after his encounter with the grumpy spotty coral last night. Considering they were only 1/8" apart it was bound to happen. I do find it typical flubber behavior to wait until the acro was sick before attacking.......... spotty better pull his head in or he's going to find out where he sits in the coral species pecking order of biggles tank.......

Hi mate, thanks for the kind words my friend.

Ramble to follow..........

This is just some stuff from my experience but generally speaking if you treat your SPS a lot like plants when it comes to placement everything will make a lot more sense. If a plant needs more light it grows towards the light and so will acros. Shading is the most effective weapon in an acros arsenal and the one that will give you the more trouble the better you get at SPS keeping.
Acros that are stung on the first encounter do not always lose the fight. Quite often the wounded acro will regrow over the dead tissue but higher now and actually begin to overgrow the attacker. I need to take some top downs to show you different examples of acros meeting and the many different outcomes. Acros are very capable of altering their encrusting growth even to the extent of plating the encrusted growth out over the top of an aggressive neighbor like an umbrella in order to neutralise the stinging ability. The blue stag in the green monster acro is doing this which does two things. It prevents stinging of the top tissue and also discourages the attacker from growing towards it, acros don't put energy into dark areas they seek the light.
The simple subject of acros meeting is way, way more interesting than 'this one will sting that one' - i'm sure youve seen the closeups of the 2 acros i have which are both trying to build a higher wall than each other rather than stinging each other. You never know what is going to be the final outcome of any encounter.
I would say 2" is about the distance i allow for most of my stuff but you're right in that you need to allow for individual growth patterns along with light tolerances as well. As an example i would take a low light tabling acro over one requiring high light any day of the week. Tables by their very nature are like scrolling monti's and compete by blocking light so the lower you can grow them happily the less real estate you lose for placing other acros.
If you place a branch somewhere and a few months later the tips have increased substantially in diameter then chances are the flow is too strong compared to what it was used to either in the wild or aquaculture facility.
If a table starts growing more upright it needs more light.
I use the flow of my pumps to discourage growth into the open areas between some of my rock work simply by making a tunnel with the water flow into which surrounding acros will not grow. SPS do not grow towards water flow that will blow their tissue off but most reefers forget that the pumps have more use than simple flow if you use your noggin......:reading:

Pics of the different battles going on in my tank will make things easier to explain i think, atm nothing is growing so i'll wait until the acros are happy again and take some closeups for you. :beer:

An important thing to remember is even with aqua cultured acros they can react differently to your lighting and water than what you expect. You will never go wrong if you place everything new on the bottom for the first couple of days and just watch for PE at least at night before moving them. If it's a high light acro and it looks stressed in high light then drop it down, every tank is different so use species placement suggestions as a guide not something written in stone. If you're new to SPS it's hard at first because there are so many variables to account for between individual tanks we all keep but watching the way corals interact with each other and deal with problems is very cool to see day by day in your reef.

Biggles - awesome reply mate, felt like I was reading a textbook from my college days :crazy1:

I did see the pic you posted of the two acros meeting and almost joining - was there some competition at the beginning? I actually find the engagement of allelopathy quite interesting in corals. I have yet to witness it in my own tank but am curious to see if I can get the corals to grow how I want them to by purposefully placing them in a potential war zone :uzi: Or I can also take your example and use my pumps to dictate growth patterns by creating high jet stream currents. If you continuously have corals that are competing for light and space, some of which might be sliming or in an offensive display, do you have to run additional protocols like carbon to help eliminate those chemicals from the water column? I always start my new corals out on a frag rack that is near the bottom of the tank, about 4 inches off sand. My setup is kind of shallow, 16" high, even the bottom of my tank gets pretty high lighting from my LED - which are hung about 10 inches off the surface.

Please post more pics once you get your parameters settled and acros looking pretty :beer:

I think I will start my own build thread to show you what I am working with and if the placement/distances are sufficient. Maybe you can give me some advice because I am pretty new to SPS but have been seeing some really nice growth and colors on my sticks...but be warned, it's frag city in my tank. I also have way too much flubber :eek2:

Here is an existing link to my build, need to update with new pics and frag inventory:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2323974&page=2

 

[FastUno]

+1 on the posts bro! Thanks for showing us the up & DOWNS of reefing. Most of us go through this, but not many share their tribulations.

Even if 80% of your stuff brown out, you will come out like the Reef Rocky & back to the most beautiful tank ever. You are keen to these minor reef secrets that will most likely halt any further trouble. Big thanks for sharing your reefing knowledge!