My Bacteria Driven Journey

Perhaps I missed it somewhere in this thread but is there a prerequisite of having a certain level of nutrients before starting MB7 and vodka dosing? My PO4 is practically undetectable (salifert) and Nitrates are extremely low. I don't know the nitrate reading exactly as I need to get a better test kit, but with a cheap Tetra kit the reading is practically null. I believe my nutrients are probably low as I have no visible algae on my LR or sand and only need to use the mag cleaner on the glass 1 or 2 days per week. Do I need to allow my nutrients to climb more to be able to begin the vodka dosing and find the maintenance dose? I just started the MB7 so it will be a couple of weeks before I'm ready but I was just wondering how to monitor nitrates if they are already so low.

More about my tank - 180g DT, 100g sump w/ over half devoted to a refugium filled with Chaeto. I harvested a 5 gallon bucket of chaeto today after letting it grow out for a month, but there's still twice that left in there. Skimmer is a Vertex IN250 and I run a WM reactor with carbon. No other filtration is used. ATO runs through a kalk reactor and I've been using 2-part until I get around to hooking up my Ca reactor. Livestock: 6" hippo tang, 5" Naso, pair of clowns hosted in a large BTA. Small foxface, 6-lined, royal grama, medium Kole tang, Starry Blenny, and several chromis. All are fed well several times per day (flake, pellet, frozens). Coral is almost all SPS though colors are not very intense, which is why I'm willing to try the low nutrient approach. There is approx 200 lbs of LR, most from other established tanks. I'm sort of lazy about water changes so I have only been changing 10 gallons every other week.
 
I have been following all the MB7 threads for a month now and just started the heavy dose to establish the bacteria level in my 34 gal Solana. My nitrates have been 20 for probably 6-8 months and nothing I did seemed to reduce them. After the first week, the nitrates were still 20, so I was wondering if I would see any improvement before starting vodka. I just finished the second week with the initial dosing level and I checked nitrates today and they were 5. This is a trememdous improvement before I even started vodka. I am thinking about going to the maintenance level on the MB7 and give it another week before I start vodka and see what the nitrates do. My phosphates have been largely undetectable for some time, just the nitrates that had issues.

I have a new 120 gal that I am just getting ready to add water. I plan to dose MB7 from the beginning on the new tank to establish the bacteria level.

Thanks for keeping this thread going.
 
Ok, I am almost ashamed to admit that I stumbled across this system and didn't research it before beginning.

I won a bottle of Brightwell Aquatics Reef Biofuel and KoralColour from a frag swap. I tried swapping them for frags, but one of the people there told me he used both products...his stock looked pretty decent, so I trusted his word. He told me to keep them, and dose according to the bottle.

So I did, and I immediately saw the brown dusting on my sand (Tswifty mentioned this too) disappear as well as some other benefits. The problem is that within about 5 days I noticed that some of the flesh on my blue tort was starting to recede/bleach. About 2 days later all of my Acro's, Milli's, and Monti's (except for capricornis varities) started to look like they were distressed/no polyp extension. So I began my research.

I figured out that the BioFuel was a part of a full line of Brightwell's NeoZeo stuff, and I read another post about it on NR (which was very misleading) as well as the 18 page Brightwell .pdf (which gave no real foundational numbers for beginning dosing, probably because the nature of dosing varies so much from tank to tank.) So I ran out and bought everything that's part of the NeoZeo system, thinking this would alleviate my SPS woes. It may have improved, but I still have some major concerns. I have no real polyp extension during the day, and some bleaching. I also have one Acan (but not others) and one clam (but not the other one) that are majorly angry.

I have been dosing 60 drops of MB7 in my 34g Solana every day for the last 7 days...and have suspended the Biofuel. I have also seen some other major improvements coloration of some of my birdsnest as well as zoas/paly's has drastically improved. I am simultaneously frustrated and fascinated by this system.

I then stumbled upon this post, which is fantastic. I have now realized that the 60 drops of MB7 (and the 30 drops of Biofuel I was dosing previously) was far far too much. Thanks for all of this detailed info and progress photos. I'm in this thing for the long haul, but really got off to the wrong start.

I've been ultra dosing MB7 for 7 days, I am going to go for 3 more I think and then begin to slowly dose BioFuel again. Do you think I should reduce my MB7 to a maintenance dose when I start BioFuel? Or should I continue for a while before reducing it?

I know most of you guys have been working with Vodka, and maybe I will just scrap the BioFuel and do the same. It's been pretty tough for me to find good information on the NeoZeo system as most people run it on larger setups then my 34g and use Zeovit stones. Chris Brightwell and some others I have read about seem to think using the Zeo media in a system this small is not a great idea, plus I would need a reactor.

Sorry for the long read!
 
P-Daddy, the tissue recession on your corals is a major concern. You need to discontinue both products if you still see this occurring. Then start again but with a much lower dose. The coloration can still be achieved by it may not be a the speed you would prefer. I would cut back on the MB7 additions as of now, give it a day or two and then start with smaller additions of biofuel.
 
Thanks for the advice Genetics!

I haven't dosed biofuel for a week, but I've been doing large doses of MB7.

So give it a rest for a day or two, and start back up with just biofuel in smaller doses, or both??

Maybe I should have specified that I have started to see some small improvements with the recession of issue, what my best educated guess is that I had a bunch of livestock that was accustomed to high(er) nitrate/phosphate and I shocked the system by dropping it so quickly. I was kind of hoping that I would bring balance to the system with the addition of MB7. The large doses weren't an attempt to rush things, just me being stupid and following directions on the bottle.

I'm also kind of concerned that I run a Tunze 9002 skimmer, and even before I began this system I never pulled much skimmate. I've been playing with it a bit the past two days, and I set it to skim a bit wetter.

I suppose a water change couldn't hurt the situation either?
 
Big thanks to your sister from My part because if it was not for her we would not be here today:p

Just a quick question. What would happen if one was to use MB7 and Vodka on a completely New tank with no inhabitants? as a base to start the tank of during the cycle? good idea or bad as i am building a new 120 and would love to go this route instead of the DSB, Fuge, Algea scrubber route?
 
awesome thread took me a couple hours to read the whole thing.... how are those dosing pumps workin for ya? how much are they each dosing a day and what kind of digital timer do you have them on? thanks!
 
might as well put my two cents in since your situation has some simularities with mine:
I've had several reef aquariums before this (most with inferior equipment, higher bioloads ect) and NEVER had major algae problems. I've had a few bubble algae show up here and there but always isolated and easily removed, a few spots BEHIND the aquascape where hair algae liked to take hold but no one ever saw and I'd manually remove.

current tank: first I had bryopsis. never had plaque levels but then for the first 6 months I had it didn't even know what it was other than everytime I'd pick the strands out with tweezers it come back even though all the other common algaes worked themselves out and disappeared and weekly tweezer pruning was a regular routine. I was already doing weekly 10g water changes and never had more than 3 small fish fed little every other day (30g/10g sump) so I know I didn't have overly abundant nutrients. I'm sure this hitch hiked on the live rock I set the tank up with. after finally identifying it and feeling lucky I havent had the bushes of it everybody else who had it seemed to have I did the kent tech M and sure enough wiped it right out. thought I was DONE with major algae problems. eventually came but even less so then before so no more mg dosing to manage it (still annoyed me). and what inspired me to post:
red turf algae! after getting rid of bryopsis I thought nothing could be worse and though I noticed just a little isolated area of red turf algae I figured I worse come to worse I'd just knock it out with ULNS: WRONG! at first I'd use tweezers and knife to scrape it off the rocks and while I could never get it all the tank looked alot better (and I probably did more to help it spread then anything else). after the manual removal became old I woke up one day and realized this crap grows anywhere there is open rock (corals seem to have no problems burning it back to encrust).

to make a long story not as long but still long I did the GFO in a reactor (still do and have throughout though some shun at GFO use with carbon dosing), MB7 alone, then the MB7 & biofuel until I went thru a full bottle of biofuel, then MB7 and vodka (much more effective and potent IMO). All other algae except VERY minimal stubborn strands of bryopsis in isolated areas remained, red turf algae NOT PHASED at all! zero detectable phosphates or nitrates to speak of for a long time. my only goal in aquarium life became getting rid of the red turf algae. so finally with nothing to lose I went ahead and tried marine algaefix. along with the current GFO, vodka and MB7 algaefix cleared ALL signs of every algae EXCEPT red turf algae. FINALLY after a month of algaefix as directed (every 3 days) and four mexican turbos (2 since moved to the biocube deemed unneccessary) I'm making a dent in the turf algae. One section of rock is COMPLETELY cleared to the bone! Other areas that were "fuzzy" with turf are now very short with rock showing! ITs WORKING thank God! I still do the carbon dosing with it. no effect on any sps/corals or fish at all.
I dont have any updated pics but areas like this next to the pink stylo that were "fuzzy" with turf are now showing rock and no fuzz!. I will need to post picks of the large area that completely stipped of of this!
30gallonsetup139.jpg


all to say if all else fails with red turf dont be afraid to add marine algaefix to the carbon dosing regimen but it doesn't work fast at all on turf algae. slowly but surely though it does. i'll probably be using it for months to come along with the vodka/MB7 AND HC GFO. I've been doing the amino acids (first brightwell then warner) and coral accel for a good while as well never with any negative affects so I feel they've been warranted.
 
yes coralline still grows (mostly where I dont want it like the powerheads and overflow box) but it is somewhat reduced on the bottom from what it once was which I would consider a good thing.
 
nice thread and following with intrest...

Ive been dosing microbakter and vodka for 3 weeks now... on my 600 litre system i used 5ml microbakter daily and 2ml vodka daily, my nitrates are 0... i did experiance some nuisance cyano here and there and started alternating salt brands with my waterchanges wich i do 5% twice a week... I have one or 2 rocks with hair algae but im thinking of removing them they definetly not growing more and nor reciding... Must i now keep dosing 2ml vodka daily and 15ml microbakter weekly ? like indicated on the bottle ?
 
Kenfuzed said:
Perhaps I missed it somewhere in this thread but is there a prerequisite of having a certain level of nutrients before starting MB7 and vodka dosing? My PO4 is practically undetectable (salifert) and Nitrates are extremely low. I don't know the nitrate reading exactly as I need to get a better test kit, but with a cheap Tetra kit the reading is practically null. I believe my nutrients are probably low as I have no visible algae on my LR or sand and only need to use the mag cleaner on the glass 1 or 2 days per week. Do I need to allow my nutrients to climb more to be able to begin the vodka dosing and find the maintenance dose? I just started the MB7 so it will be a couple of weeks before I'm ready but I was just wondering how to monitor nitrates if they are already so low.
Click to expand...
Having "detectable" nutrient levels is definitely not a requirement. Although, having detectable Nitrates makes determining a maintenance dose much easier. Those of us without detectable nutrient levels just have to be a little more careful with how we increase our Vodka dosages. Also, you're more than likely not going to get a detectable Phosphate reading with any of the titration test kits. Most people use the Hanna Photometer to get an accurate reading. I also was unable to get any readings with the Salifert PO4 kit, but was able to get a reading with the Photometer.

Good Luck.
milkman55 said:
I have been following all the MB7 threads for a month now and just started the heavy dose to establish the bacteria level in my 34 gal Solana. My nitrates have been 20 for probably 6-8 months and nothing I did seemed to reduce them. After the first week, the nitrates were still 20, so I was wondering if I would see any improvement before starting vodka. I just finished the second week with the initial dosing level and I checked nitrates today and they were 5. This is a trememdous improvement before I even started vodka. I am thinking about going to the maintenance level on the MB7 and give it another week before I start vodka and see what the nitrates do. My phosphates have been largely undetectable for some time, just the nitrates that had issues.

I have a new 120 gal that I am just getting ready to add water. I plan to dose MB7 from the beginning on the new tank to establish the bacteria level.

Thanks for keeping this thread going.
Click to expand...
It certainly won't hurt anything prolonging your MB7 seeding period. A lot of people notice improvements after adding just the MB7 into the mix. I didn't notice a major impact in my nutrient levels, but did notice some other improvements. Congrats on the results, and welcome to the bacteria driven club!
flying_dutchman said:
Congrats on thread of the month!
It is a very helpful thread.
Click to expand...
Thank You :)
thelostrican said:
subscribed...however i want more pics and more pics....or else :)

very nice tank....love it
Click to expand...
Hahaha... Thanks. I haven't been around the tank much, but hope to get some updated pictures this week.
kyle1284 said:
awesome thread took me a couple hours to read the whole thing.... how are those dosing pumps workin for ya? how much are they each dosing a day and what kind of digital timer do you have them on? thanks!
Click to expand...
Thanks. The dosing pumps are working great, and have been one of the best purchases I've made for my tank. I'm using my Neptune Systems Aquacontroller 3 to control them, and have them dosing 5 times per day. I need to re-test the flow rates again to get an accurate idea of how much I'm dosing though.
steevareno2002 said:
Wow, ORA Joe the Coral grew super fast! Is MB7/vodka ok to start on a new tank? Or should I wait a month or more?
Click to expand...
Yeah it's been one of the fastest growing corals in my tank lately. It needs to be though, because it took forever to get started. :lol:

A lot of people start right from the beginning. I personally didn't start until I noticed an issue, but don't see a downside to starting right from the beginning. However, I would be cautious with my initial Vodka dosages.
ziyaadb said:
Big thanks to your sister from My part because if it was not for her we would not be here today:p

Just a quick question. What would happen if one was to use MB7 and Vodka on a completely New tank with no inhabitants? as a base to start the tank of during the cycle? good idea or bad as i am building a new 120 and would love to go this route instead of the DSB, Fuge, Algea scrubber route?
Click to expand...
Yeah she's been a huge help since I moved, and haven't had the opportunity to relocate the tank yet.

As I mentioned above, a lot of people use this type of system right from the start. I would just be careful with the initial Vodka dosages. I'm not going to get into the pros/cons of the other types of systems though. That's a can of worms I really don't feel like opening. :lol:
bgr said:
is a das skimmer large enough for a bacteria driven system
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with the DAS skimmers, but it's usually recommended to go with a skimmer that is rated for double your total system volume.

Good luck.
jaquesdp said:
nice thread and following with intrest...

Ive been dosing microbakter and vodka for 3 weeks now... on my 600 litre system i used 5ml microbakter daily and 2ml vodka daily, my nitrates are 0... i did experiance some nuisance cyano here and there and started alternating salt brands with my waterchanges wich i do 5% twice a week... I have one or 2 rocks with hair algae but im thinking of removing them they definetly not growing more and nor reciding... Must i now keep dosing 2ml vodka daily and 15ml microbakter weekly ? like indicated on the bottle ?
Click to expand...
There's not really a set in stone dosage for every system. If you think you can begin dialing back your dosage, there's no harm in doing so. Just monitor your nutrient levels as you do. If you see them begin to increase then you know you reduced by too much.

Good luck.
 
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