My journey using Chloroquine Phosphate begins...

[Dr. X]

My understanding is that chloroquine phosphate and chloroquine diphosphate are the same thing in terms of application. If you look at Sigma Aldrich's website, you'll find that both compounds have the same formula and molecular weight. Not sure why they have two discrete names, though.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/fluka/phr1258?lang=en&region=US

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/c6628?lang=en&region=US

Has anyone ordered from Sigma Aldrich?

 

[ca1ore]

I think it depends on the fish. Certainly anthias are more sensitive fish, so it's possible CP is not a good treatment option for them. Perhaps tank transfer would be a better bet.

Not trying to start another debate, but I actually don't treat Anthias. I put them into a QT for 12 weeks and observe, but do not treat prophylactically. I have bought probably 100 anthias over 30 years of reefing and have had not a single one show ich. With Tangs, on the other hand, probably a third I have bought show ich symptoms. Just sayin'

 

[rog2961]

Not trying to start another debate, but I actually don't treat Anthias. I put them into a QT for 12 weeks and observe, but do not treat prophylactically. I have bought probably 100 anthias over 30 years of reefing and have had not a single one show ich. With Tangs, on the other hand, probably a third I have bought show ich symptoms. Just sayin'

ich no, flukes? yes. They all had stringy white poop. I ultimately couldn't get them out thus the reason to treat everyone. If I were able to catch them all I would of taken them out. Didn't think it would hurt to try.

 

[rog2961]

I hate to say that I don't treat any fishes, but just do freshwater dip for long extended periods before they go into my QT tank for observation. Luckily, the only disease that has ever showed up was Ich and I can easily treat. But my local dealer is a clownfish collector and get so many clownfishes in every month that he needs to progressively treat all fishes or I've seen disease takeover quickly, especially brook. Luckily, clownfishes do extremely well with CP as well as the many tangs that go through his shop. He quarantines them at 60mg/gal. With other fishes that might be more sensitive, he quarantines them at 40mg/gal of CP. Not all fishes react to CP as positively to CP as he discovered with tangs, clownfishes and most angelfishes.

You local dealer has good success with tangs? I would like to know as I have a hippo and sailfin in QT now, but am hesitant to try it on them due to my losses with the anthias. From what i've seen they can come back from lack of appetite but would only do so once meds are removed.

 

[rog2961]

Couple of my corals have started to RTN/STN after transfer back into the main tank. I lost two colonies. Everything else appears to be OK.

 

[jazzman7838]

just a little update, cp affects appetite quite a bit.

I have QT'd just about every family of marine fish in the book with CP and never experienced loss of appetite from it. Prazi is a different story. This includes finicky eaters like butterflies and angels.

What concentration did you add it? I can't keep track of what the consensus is in this thread but 10 mg/L is the generally prescribed concentration among aquatic vets.

 

[jazzman7838]

Everything I have read from "trusted sources" like Advanced Aquarist and Bob Goemens recommends 40mg/g for general quarantine and 60mg/g for active infections. The only time 80mg/g is advocated is for Uronema marinum infections. This same treatment protocol was confirmed by Matt Wandell from the CAS Steinhart Aquarium as well (I asked him after his lecture at MACNA this year).

Just to clarify so there is no confusion, Steinhart uses CP at 10 mg/L as a treatment for Cryptocaryon, not for Uronema. And yes, it is used after confirmation of the parasite via skin scrapes (or obvious visual signs of it), not prophylactically.

 

[HumbleFish]

I have QT'd just about every family of marine fish in the book with CP and never experienced loss of appetite from it. Prazi is a different story. This includes finicky eaters like butterflies and angels.

Same here... no loss of appetite is one of the advantages CP seems to have over copper based meds.

What concentration did you add it? I can't keep track of what the consensus is in this thread but 10mg/L is the generally prescribed concentration among aquatic vets.

Just to avoid any confusion... 10mg/L equates to (roughly) 40mg/gal.

 

[Deinonych]

Just to clarify so there is no confusion, Steinhart uses CP at 10 mg/L as a treatment for Cryptocaryon, not for Uronema. And yes, it is used after confirmation of the parasite via skin scrapes (or obvious visual signs of it), not prophylactically.

Yes, thanks for the clarification. Matt did state they treat at 10mg/l for active infections when I spoke with him at MACNA. IME, 10mg/l isn't sufficient for active outbreaks in a small quarantine tank, though. I prefer 15mg/l (60mg/g) for active outbreaks.

 

[Deinonych]

Same here... no loss of appetite is one of the advantages CP seems to have over copper based meds.

+1

If anything, fish being treated with quarantine show increased appetite IME.

 

[jazzman7838]

Just to avoid any confusion... 10mg/L equates to (roughly) 40mg/gal.

Ah, I see why I was confused. "g" = gram in my world, gallon is either "G" or "USG".

 

[rog2961]

I have QT'd just about every family of marine fish in the book with CP and never experienced loss of appetite from it. Prazi is a different story. This includes finicky eaters like butterflies and angels.

What concentration did you add it? I can't keep track of what the consensus is in this thread but 10 mg/L is the generally prescribed concentration among aquatic vets.

That may have been the issue, I think i was in the 60-80mg range. It was tough to tell. I had 5g for about 170g of water. The total volume is where I was guesstimating. Successive doses are unknown too, as I did a 30g water change, and put in about 1/4 of the original dose. I am thinking the high dose caused the appetite suppression.

 

[HumbleFish]

...never had to use formalin.

...and I hope you never have to. Formaldehyde is dangerous to both you & the fish. Use gloves if you ever have to administer a formalin dip/bath.

 

[Elliott]

and on the topic of dangerous, copper is toxic and can aid growth of underlying malignancies in humans by angioneogenesis, so wear gloves and avoid the mist off the surface, all the more reason to us CP!

 

[Deinonych]

and on the topic of dangerous, copper is toxic and can aid growth of underlying malignancies in humans by angioneogenesis, so wear gloves and avoid the mist off the surface, all the more reason to us CP!

+1

The more I read about the side effects of copper-based medications, the less inclined I am to use it.

BTW, Elliott - enjoyed listening to you on the Reef Threads podcast last week. Your system sounds really impressive!

 

[Elliott]

thanks Deinonych, appreciate it

 

[HumbleFish]

and on the topic of dangerous, copper is toxic and can aid growth of underlying malignancies in humans by angioneogenesis, so wear gloves and avoid the mist off the surface, all the more reason to us CP!

Does anyone know how dangerous CP is to interact with? What happens if some residue gets on your hands? :worried2:

 

[jazzman7838]

CP is not dangerous to work with. It was actually commonly prescribed for anti-malarial use at one point but not any more. You don't want to ingest it or anything, but getting some on your hands is harmless.

 

[jazzman7838]

That may have been the issue, I think i was in the 60-80mg range. It was tough to tell. I had 5g for about 170g of water. The total volume is where I was guesstimating. Successive doses are unknown too, as I did a 30g water change, and put in about 1/4 of the original dose. I am thinking the high dose caused the appetite suppression.

If I'm doing the arithmetic right that is somewhere around 7.5 mg/L to start. It's very critical that you get a good estimate of the water volume, take into consideration any plumbing, filters, etc. and subtract for the volume of rockwork or sand.

 

[HumbleFish]

CP is not dangerous to work with. It was actually commonly prescribed for anti-malarial use at one point but not any more. You don't want to ingest it or anything, but getting some on your hands is harmless.

That's what I figured... but it's nice to have all the bases covered in this one thread.