My Male Crosshatch Trigger Died!

[Johnsteph10]

It is a sad day.

My 9 inch beautiful male CH trigger who I got from Warren in January just suddenly died. He ate like a champ Wednesday night and looked great.

Thursday evening I noted he had locked himself in between rocks using his trigger and was breathing heavy..his color was way off (incredibly light)...

This morning he died. He was mottled white over much of his body, no fin damage, no pop-eye, no ich, his belly was fat (1.5 inches fat)..

He was a beautiful, active, and intelligent fish. He would spit water at whomever was standing near the tank not feeding him and wiggle back and forth. He would let me pet him like a puppy and would constantly zoom around the tank.

The female is doing great still.

I fed him a diet of frozen mysis, krill, Formula I/II, NLS pellets, and Nori. He never once turned down any of these. Never bothered anything in the tank.

My parameters:
Ca 480
pH 8.21
NH4 0
NO2 0
NO3 <5
Phos 0
ORP 419
Temp 78-80 degrees

Everything else is doing wonderfully.

I have some bad suspicions about why he died - so I posthumously drew out some blood and will take it with me to work to test for the likely culprit.



P.S. My wife is really NOT happy right now - just loved that fish. Sometimes I really hate this hobby.

 

[pecan2phat]

John,
Crap...crap.... crap....!

Really sorry to hear about the Cross Hatch. He was the only one out of the four that had a unique personality.

Sorry for your loss, what are your suspicions? Did you notice any nematoids on him?

 

[Evergreen]

Sorry about your loss, it's not often you get a fish with a real personality. Those sound like incredible fish. Let us know what you find out.

 

[jnfallon]

Sorry. Thats a real bummer.

 

[Johnsteph10]

Waiting on lab.

No external parasites noted.

 

[eboonaman]

Boy.. What a loss.. sorry to here that...

 

[joefish]

Sorry to hear , the loss of beautiful fish can realy get you down on the hobby ...

 

[MIKE NY]

oh man, sorry to hear....he was a beauty.

 

[Justjoe]

Re: My Male Crosshatch Trigger Died!

Thursday evening I noted he had locked himself in between rocks using his trigger and was breathing heavy..his color was way off (incredibly light)...

[/B]

Triggers often have monogeneans and they are transparent for the most part, and only become visible to the naked eye when in quantity, especially when then form several layers on the fishes eye, and the eye appears cloudy. They can often infest the gills and cause heavy respiration.
Even though the female looks fine, I would give her a fresh water dip for atleast 5 minutes in a darker container. The monogeneans will turn white and drop off. The darker the container, the better to see them with.
Try to have the FW matched for temp and pH and aerate while dipping, even 8 minutes would be fine.
The monogeneans are tough critters, and won't drop off right away, so you have to go atleast 5 minutes.
Joe

 

[Justjoe]

This is the must have book for parasites and treatments:


http://www.bestwebbuys.com/Fish_Disease-ISBN_081382558X.html?isrc=b-search

 

[billsreef]

The trigger will quite likely lay down and not move when doing that FW dip, don't let that worry you. I've gone up to 10 minutes with triggers. If you get the snow globe effect, you'll need to assume all fish are infected in the tank and dip them as well. Dips every 2 days for a week usually will do the trick.

The book Joe linked to is indeed the best fish disease book out there. It's a bit pricey, but well worthwile

 

[dougwilliams]

(Insert Billsreef Fish Doctor Theme Music Here)

 

[Spracklcat]

Hey Monkey Boy--

did you perchance happen to make some smears before you sent the blood off to the lab? The reason I ask is that samples degenerate rapidly despite preservatives in the collection tubes so if you are going to have the hematology looked at over a period of time it's best to get those slides made right when you draw them. If you can stain them (a regular Dif-quick is fine) then too that's a plus; otherwise send them dry.

Also, are you sending them out to someone in a veterinary clinical lab? Fish RBC's, like avian ones, are nucleated and you can't use an automated system for doing the differential. You need someone with a hemacytometer to do a manual. The chemistry should come out fine with a normal human automated chemistry analyzer; of course you will need appropriate reference values. With the respiratory difficulties you report I'd be interested in the blood pH, RBC count and HCT (called PCV in veterinary parlance).

I have some reference materials on fish hematology from my previous life as a veterinary clinical hematologist so let me know how things go. I'm very interested in what the lab values reveal. Also, if you can save the slides! There's so little out there regarding fish hematology, even normal samples, that it would be instructive to start a collection of reference materials (sorry, science geek coming out ).

Sorry about your loss but I'm glad you're pursuing it.

Christine

 

[jnfallon]

:eek1:

Nothing, and I mean nothing, is better than a hottie who speaks words I can't understand.

(sigh)

 

[Long Island Andy]

This stuff is amazing to me, all these years I thought fish just died so we could get a new one !!!!

 

[Johnsteph10]

Christine - I did smears. I know that some of the results may be a little off since fish vs. human physiology is just slightly different.

When I saw he was doing too well the night before I raided the ED lab.

I did FW dip the body and got no parasites off - and I microscoped the FW after the dip and didn't see anything unusual.

I should get back the toxicology results today.

I think the worst part is my wife - she is incredibly upset and won't even look at the tank anymore...like I needed another thing for her to be against fish!

 

[dougwilliams]

One day I'm going to find one of my fish dissected for experimentation with a note signed that the fish donated its body to science - and thats when I'll know... 'cause most fish cant write--- ha ha- (you know they lack opposable thumbs).

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7037201#post7037201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jnfallon
:eek1:

Nothing, and I mean nothing, is better than a hottie who speaks words I can't understand.

(sigh)

It's even better when you can understand

 

[billsreef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7037578#post7037578 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Johnsteph10
I did FW dip the body and got no parasites off - and I microscoped the FW after the dip and didn't see anything unusual.

External parasites usually vacate the body of a dead host very quickly, so that might not mean much. Evidence of tissue damage is more revealing at this point. One of the best things to do is clip some gill filaments and examine for fusion of the gill lamellae or other damage.

BTW if you have access to the resources for these type of examinations, it is quite possible to anesthetize a fish and clip one small gill filament for microscopic inspection without doing any harm to the fish

 

[DgenR8]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7037747#post7037747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef


BTW if you have access to the resources for these type of examinations, it is quite possible to anesthetize a fish

How do you get them to inhale?

:lol: