My New Hairy Horse

[steelcaveman]

H. erectus ought to be that broad-chested at that size, although some captive bred take longer to get there. H. ingens are never that broad-chested, and since they reach 10 - 12 inches, are likely to still be very juvie-like (thin and gangly) at that stage.

If you don't believe my assessment (and I don't blame you, you don't know me from adam, and I'm not technically qualified), what I would direct you to do is to look at the morphological identifying features like coronet shape, the eye spines, and the cheek spines, among others, as a starting off point. Looking at the standards put out by project seahorse for seahorse identification, and then comparing to your seahorse.

Thanks.
I want to see if it changes in size and features over the next few months.
While I am being told it is an Ingen, from what I consider to be a very reliable source, I do have my own doubts. This thread re-affirms the doubts. Just looking at it, I think it is some type of an Erectus hybrid. There are many different types of seahorses that are bred locally in my area - Dallas, TX - so I do see lots of 3 inch seahorses including Erectus.
I may need to have a local seahorse enthusiast come over and take a look.

 

[rayjay]

While this pdf doesn't address the topic of this thread, I just though you might be interested in the drawing of the erectus female on page four.
ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/009/y4161e/y4161e42.pdf

 

[nickiwit]

Beautiful Seahorse! It makes me miss keeping seahorses.

 

[timinnl]

Pretty sure it was shipped through a wholesaler in Bali.
The owner is pretty tight lipped about his suppliers.
I do know that it was not bred in the US.
The other ones were much smaller than the one in the pic.
He gets them in twice per year.

Sounds like a LFS. Bali normally are cage/pen/net raised.

I have two stores that I do most of my buying at here in the Netherlands. They are both open & honest about their sources. They have nothing to hide.

 

[steelcaveman]

Sounds like a LFS. Bali normally are cage/pen/net raised.

I have two stores that I do most of my buying at here in the Netherlands. They are both open & honest about their sources. They have nothing to hide.

There is an abundance of saltwater fish stores in my area. The competition is fierce and some are now on the verge of shutting their doors. There are about 20 good saltwater fish stores within a 30 minute drive.
The owner is honest and told me what he knew. I do know that he struggles with the language barriers and sometimes gets something different from what he thought he ordered.

I paid under $70, including the taxes, which I consider to be a good deal regardless of the kind.

 

[TamiW]

If I had to guess, I'd guess that is a wild caught H. erectus from florida. Cirri is not common in captive bred seahorses, and it appears to be on the larger side. Not that either preclude it from being captive bred but it does make it more suspect. My guess its its a wild caught guy from FL, since it is legal to collect and sell in the US native seahorses.

I'd watch that seahorse very carefully, along with your other seahorses. If it is wild caught, or even net pen raised/tank raised, there is a very good chance it could be carrying something.

It's not a hybrid. Erectus has a very wide range of body types. But if you're really not sure, grab the seahorse id guide, and start counting features:
http://www.divebooks.net/download/idseahorse.pdf
It will also make it clearer just how much variation erectus has, as there is a good chart of all the features each species may have.

 

[rayjay]

The problem I have with the ID guide is that so many seahorses have the same counts of things or fall within similar ranges that those counts most times are not definitive.
In this case though the average tail ring count for erectus is 36 (34-39) with the ingens tail ring count average being 39 (38-40)
More importantly is the description of the coronet although the erectus has more variants of this than the ingens.
erectus: Variable, low, triangular wedge; ridge-like or raised with sharp edges; or with relatively sharp spines.
ingens: Medium-high, tilted backwards with five well-defined points, sharp edges, or flanges at top.
Some help comes also from the "other" description.
erectus: Deep-bodied; may have enlarged first, third, fifth, seventh and eleventh trunk
rings (in most other species the enlarged rings are the first, fourth, seventh and eleventh); snout is usually less
than one-half head length; cheek spine may be single or double. Head and neck often have white lines.
ingensrominent, long (drooping), rounded, single cheek spines;
prominent eye spine (may be broad or almost double); males commonly have a prominent keel;
sexually mature females often have a dark patch below the anal fin87.
While the ingens will get to be the bigger seahorse, the erectus will have a much fuller body.

 

[Elysia]

FishGrrl -- wild caught erectus was my first thought, as well, especially considering the price.

 

[namxas]

H. erectus, without a doubt.

 

[TamiW]

Rayjay, its true, there is a lot of overlap between the different features a seahorse can have, and erectus especially has a wide range of features that overlap with a lot of different seahorses. The biggest thing though is to count everything and then usually a single species emerges.

A lot of the time we only count a few things and so the results are inconclusive (i'm guilty of it too). Photographic the seahorse helps, especially a good macro of the dorsal fin for counting fin rays. Head/Snout Length ratio too, so you can compare on the computer (though, this can be tricky if the angle is wrong.)

It doesn't help with the additional species that Kuiter has supposedly described, if indeed they are new species. But it will give a nice idea of the most commonly available species.

 

[DanU]

I have to disagree about the cirri. Actually it is quite common for H. erectus to develop cirri in captivity. Cirri seems to be a lot like color in that it is highly variable and used as camouflage.

H. erectus do indeed have a lot of variability in traits based on their origin. Differences can be found from those in the Gulf, Keys, Southern, Mid-Atlantic and Northern Atlantic coasts.

Anyone who has ever had H. ingens would be quick to point out, that this is not H. ingens.

Dan

 

[CWP]

Sorry to butt into this conversation, however... While I'm definitely not an expert in sea horses, I do have two pair of H. erectus that were wild caught in the Florida Keys and both of my females look nearly identical to the photo. The markings are similar, as are the colors; and while one of my females had ciri, the other did not. But I do understand how difficult it is to determine species; fortunately I bought mine directly from the source and knew what I was getting. By the way, I love mine and hope you get as much joy from yours as I do mine. Good luck.

 

[TamiW]

Dan, I stand corrected on the cirri. You would know. Incidentally, the only cirri I've seen on captive bred seahorses are photos of erectus from you!

 

[savageAJC]

rayjay :thumbsup:

 

[DanU]

Tami, there others, they don't produce as much or have been around as long. Jorge used to get quite a bit, Beth gets some and many hobbyists get a few in broods. Wish it was predictable.

Dan

 

[LisaD]

I'm jumping in late, but that is definitely H erectus. For the OP, I have tried to keep a single false perc (as opposed to a more territorial pair) with seahorses, and even this timid clownfish eventually attacked them. Clownfish are not safe longterm tankmates, IME.

OP may have covered it, and I may have missed it, but what are you feeding? WC erectus often don't recognize frozen as food, but are usually not to hard to wean to mysis...

 

[Mandy0020]

I had about 30% of my last brood born with cirri.. Of course my adults are Dan and Abbey's....

Dan, I stand corrected on the cirri. You would know. Incidentally, the only cirri I've seen on captive bred seahorses are photos of erectus from you!

 

[steelcaveman]

Here is an updated pic.
She is one strange horse.
The one hanging upside down.
Very passive compared to the reidi.
She is not a good eater.
I've tried a few things - only dead food I've seen her eat is Reef Nutrition Artic Pods. Odd food choice, but all my seahorse go into a frenzy over the stuff.

 

[onepoorreefer]

That sea horse is sweet I hope they get some in chicago

 

[steelcaveman]

Update =
The hairy horse had the appetite of a supermodel and passed.
I really think she was wild caught.
I am in the process of shifting the tank from being dominated by non photosynthetic corals to those needing light.
There are many reasons for the change - some of the non photo corals were slowing dieing - ie dendros, due to the seahorses wrapping their tails around the them. A few of my favorite corals were not doing well under 2 watts per gallon. The constant feeding was a party for the bristle worms that created a bad environment for the seahorses. I added an arrow crab that has managed to devour the bristle worms. I was also dealing with algae from overfeeding so I added a clown tang and potters angels. They leave the seahorses alone - as they are too busy picking on each other - and the algae issue is under control.
I am considering some encrusting monti's any thoughts???
My seahorses are about 4 inches.