my rice experiment

[daveonbass]

what happened to melev?

hehe...melev is BFL. (banned for life) there was a little on it on the dfwmas forum. He has good humor about it all, and it didn't destroy his life or anything...in fact I felt like making him a shirt "banned from reef central" (a rare and small alumni of elite aquarist that ****ed off the staffs here I guess.) the only other person I can recall that was banned was anthony calfo. I miss him.

but alas this is was off topic...

sorry bout the gossip...viva la rice.

 

[noahm]

The Math


1.09189 x 10^-5 g x 100g / 378.541178 l = 2.8844 x 10 ^-6 g/l or 2884.4 ppm


please check my math to make sure i did it correctly(been a while since i took chem class and two glasses of scotch are not helping), i also did the molar conversions for those who might want them

1 ppm =1mg/L =1x10^-3 g/L. You ran your decimal points the wrong way on all of the ppm calcs. 2.88 x 10^-6g/L =.00288 ppm. Other than that, the numbers look to be calculated correctly.

 

[Acrotrdco]

WTyson,

1mg/L = 1ppm

So your numbers are a little off.

Zinc:
2.884 x 10^-6 g/L = 0.002884 mg/L = 0.002884 ppm

Copper:
It should be 3.998 x 10^-7 g/L = 0.0003998 mg/L = 0.0003998 ppm

Manganese:
5.341 x 10^-6 g/L = 0.005341 mg/L = 0.005341 ppm

Iron:
2.099 x 10^-6 g/L = 0.002099 mg/L = 0.002099 ppm

 

[daveonbass]

back on topic...

if the decomposition is an issue...but the rice easily lasts 40 days so far...then wouldn't it be feesable to replace the rice before it becomes a problem. Sadly this may require a second reactor for some. but the rice is so cheap that I can easily say I would use it over a 50 to 100 dollar bag of biopellets.

that way the new rice could be allowed time to be seeded...and then you can just dump the old. So far there are little to no side effects of the rice in th shorter scale of time. So lets keep seeing what happens.

 

[icycoral]

Quick update

Quick update

Hi y'all I spent most of my free time today building a new stand to hold another small aquarium that was going to be gravity fed by my main tank. I was going to use it as a giant fuge for macro but depending on this experiment I may use it as a second smaller display tank. So I didn't get to check my params like I wanted to but my orp is 290 my ph 8.1 and I am now cleaning my glass every 2-3 days now. My algae in my sump is not growingback nearly as fast as it did before and I am down to about 1/5 of what I used to have. All livestock is looking good a couple things I noticed are that some of my zoa's (armor of the gods) are extending their stalks like they are light deprived. They have been in the same spot for two months and this is new. The zoas on the same rock are doing the same. My blasto's look a little on the pale side also but nothing too severe. The rice is holding up good have not seen anymore peices broken up in the reactor.

 

[elijaher]

Melev has been banned what I didn't know that.

 

[daveonbass]

why is it that I and acro are the only ones that knew this...? For a new member you have a lot of info on older posts...

smells like skimate...haha

 

[DZs]

Anyone have a paper towel? There's Pepsi on my monitor now. :lolspin:

Sorry, but that was funny. Skimate

 

[dez_2121]

Ok so I started my rice experiment a couple of hours ago
First things first my tank is a standard 55gal BB tank with dual overflows and a 30 gal sump. For my return I'm running a mag 12, that I have T'd off to run a make shift rice reactor lol (should put that one on the ghetto thread) the line has a restrictor so I get just enough tumble on the rice. My lighting is an aquaticlife 48" 4, 54w setup. I'm not sure about my skimmer because I bought it second hand but it runs off an Rio 1100. In my sump I have about 25lbs live rock no sand and some cheato.
I've been running a bare bottom tank now for about a month, the reason I went BB was because of a fire I had with my VHO's http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1861255 . After the fire I dumped all my sand, and just rinsed off my rock. I never heard of cooking rocks so needless to say I'm having a hair algae bloom from hell because of the rocks leaching PO4 into my tank.
I did a test of the water before hand with an API reef master test kit (only one I could get for now)
27 AUG 2010
Ca2"¦"¦"¦..540
KH"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦15DKH
Po4"¦"¦"¦"¦"¦.. 5.0, I think this is because of the hair algae I have plus I've been running some PURA phoslock Po4 remover. Not sure if it's even been working
No3 "¦"¦"¦"¦. Between 0 and 5.0 can't tell (because the kit) also think its low because of the algae.
I will keep postings and pics up on the progress of this

 

[dez_2121]

ok first the rice i'm using

next my tank notice the hair algae
left

right

center

and FTS

maybe some one could tell me what kinda skimmer this is ( old pic so thats not whats coming out its way worse already)

 

[dez_2121]

oh the pics where taken after lights out .... had to turn them on for a min to take the pics thats why the corals are closed

 

[Du]

Dez, you Ca and ALK is high. Dont use any additivites till kh dropped under 8 Dkh, then add ALK and keep range 9-7 Dkh, and don't add CA till it high then 450 ppm

 

[dez_2121]

hay thanks i thought it was a bit high but the funny thing is i haven't added any Ca in awhile

its funny my tank looks so bad now i hate to even post pics nothing made it after the fire except some GSP and now there all white..

 

[Acrotrdco]

For those of you who're interested, you may want to take a look at this:

http://www.ijra.com/v92008/article2.html

ABSTRACT

Maintaining superior water quality in intensive recirculating aquaculture systems (RAS) by controlling levels of inorganic nitrogenous wasteĄXammonia, nitrate and nitriteĄXderived from uneaten food and fecal excretion is often a challenge. In most systems, solids are removed mechanically and ammonia is oxidized to nitrate by nitrifying biological filtration; nitrate is subsequently eliminated through numerous water exchanges. Alternatively, nitrate removal is achieved using a bacterial-mediated denitrification component that reduces nitrate to nitrogen gas under anoxic conditions, a process that depends on the application of external or endogenous electron and carbon donors, e.g. carbohydrates or organic alcohols. In this study, we compared the capacity of acetate, glucose, soluble starch, and granular starches to promote the denitrifying activity of heterotrophic bacteria in biofilm-coated polyethylene beads from a marine RAS moving bed bioreactor (MBB) under anaerobic conditions. Granular starches (corn, wheat, and rice) were as effective as glucose in supporting denitrification, and were 7.6 and 9.8 times more effective in removing nitrate when compared to soluble starch and acetate, respectively. Furthermore, granular starches retained their denitrification potential for longer time periods than soluble starch or acetate. The low cost, ease of use, and non-toxic nature of granular starches make them an ideal exogenous carbon source for promoting denitrification in RAS bioreactors.

====================================================

And if you're really going to try using granular starches (corn, wheat and rice), rice seems to be the best choice due to the lowest phosphorous, potassium and other minerals.

Rice:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5721/2

Wheat:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5739/2

Corn:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5687/2

 

[dez_2121]

wow so much techno talk lol i love it,,,,, read like stereo instructions in Japanese LMAO

 

[Du]

hay thanks i thought it was a bit high but the funny thing is i haven't added any Ca in awhile

its funny my tank looks so bad now i hate to even post pics nothing made it after the fire except some GSP and now there all white..

Looks like because no "eaters" of calcium, such corals. Ok, let it be as is, just don't use alk additivites if it higher 7-8 dkh.

 

[Du]

And one more thing. Such high ca and alk levels may be due reason of high po4. As known po4 act as inhibitor of calcification process. So, dez then you "rice machine" will work at well you must observe depletes in ca and alk levels, imo.

 

[Acrotrdco]

And one more thing. Such high ca and alk levels may be due reason of high po4. As known po4 act as inhibitor of calcification process. So, dez then you "rice machine" will work at well you must observe depletes in ca and alk levels, imo.

Exactly.

PO4 will be another major issue with using rice as alternative biopellets.

As the denitrification bacteria consumes N with a ratio of 10:1, eventually your system will be nitrogen limited, meaning there's not enough N left in your water to consume the P with.

So it's normal for people to keep using PO4 absorbent like Rowaphos (GFO) along with biopellets to absorb the remaining PO4.

With using granular starch (e.g. rice), the extra phosphorus leaking into the water column will intensify this situation, and must be taken into consideration.

 

[daveonbass]

btw. That skimmer looks like a corallife. I have never owned one but that red ring looks unmistakeable. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[kkil4life]

WTyson,

1mg/L = 1ppm

So your numbers are a little off.

Zinc:
2.884 x 10^-6 g/L = 0.002884 mg/L = 0.002884 ppm

Copper:
It should be 3.998 x 10^-7 g/L = 0.0003998 mg/L = 0.0003998 ppm

Manganese:
5.341 x 10^-6 g/L = 0.005341 mg/L = 0.005341 ppm

Iron:
2.099 x 10^-6 g/L = 0.002099 mg/L = 0.002099 ppm

I'm too exhausted to work out the ppm again, so for now, lets accept ur calculations of the above.

now look at this
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-02/rs/feature/index.php

element - ur calc - from the table NSW (all in ppm)
iron - 0.002099 - .02
manganese - 0.005341 - 0.01
zinc - 0.002884 - 0.0140
copper -0.0003998 -0.090


as you can see from the comparison of the ppm from YOUR caluclation and NSW, iron, manganese, zinc and copper are absolutely nothing to worry about.