Ok i thought the denitrification in rice/biopellet/vodka systems was a byproduct of the creation of new bacterial cells which are soon exported, not denitrification as a byproduct of anaerobic respiration (if that's a term).
my rice experiment
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Ok i thought the denitrification in rice/biopellet/vodka systems was a byproduct of the creation of new bacterial cells which are soon exported, not denitrification as a byproduct of anaerobic respiration (if that's a term).
philbo32
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Right? We're talking about two totally different things here!
That's not how vodka or solid vodka systems work... as I understand...
philbo32
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I was actually stating how denitrifying bacteria work. Yes it is how all denitrifiers work whether they are fuelled by vodka, biopellets, barley straw, rice or any other carbon source.
philbo32
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Biodenitrators are more likely to be again a mix of aerobic (O2 environment), anoxic (low O2) and anaerobic (no O2) denitrifiers, but yes most likely mainly anaerobic denitrifying bacteria.
Yeah sorry I misread you. Disregard that. I edited my post.
Yea, you pulled the rug out form under me, LOL
.DJ
When the reactor is stopped in the case of the OP the oxygen demand from these bacteria would cause them to die or become dormant as O2 deminishes. This would allow the anaerobic denitifying bacteria and sulphur bacteria to start growing and cause the problems that the OP has encountered with poisonous H2S (byproduct of there respiration).
We almost agree here. The aerobic nitrifying bacteria and anaerobic denitrifying bacteria are faculative heterophs . They would wane when the O2 and NO3(anoxia) were depleted not just O2(hypoxia). Then the obligate anaerobic prokaryotes ,SO4 reducers, do their thing. All of these bacteria need organic material since they are all heterotrophic.Anoxia can happen with low flow as in a power outage, a deep sand bed,a hetrocyst,etc or maybe even inside mushy rice.
We almost agree here. The aerobic nitrifying bacteria and anaerobic denitrifying bacteria are faculative heterophs . They would wane when the O2 and NO3(anoxia) were depleted not just O2(hypoxia). Then the obligate anaerobic prokaryotes ,SO4 reducers, do their thing. All of these bacteria need organic material since they are all heterotrophic.Anoxia can happen with low flow as in a power outage, a deep sand bed,a hetrocyst,etc or maybe even inside mushy rice.
philbo32
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I agree with you except the bacteria in the reactor would be aerobic, anoxic, plus a small amount of anaerobic denitrifying bacteria. Not aerobic nitrifying bacteria.
To quote from wikipedia; 'Nitrifying bacteria are chemoautotrophic or chemolithotrophs depending on the genera (Nitrosomonas, Nitrosococcus, Nitrobacter, Nitrococcus) bacteria that grow by consuming inorganic nitrogen compounds'
States that nitrifying bacteria are chemoautotrophs not heterotrophs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrifying_bacteria
To quote from another site; 'Nitrifying bacteria are classified as obligate chemolithotrophs. This simply means that they must use inorganic salts as an energy source and generally cannot utilize organic materials. They must oxidize ammonia and nitrites for their energy needs and fix inorganic carbon dioxide (CO2) to fulfill their carbon requirements.'
http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html
I don't think that all nitrifying bacteria need to fix carbon from the air. Some are capable of doing it, I suppose, but I haven't seen evidence of that being a major player in an aquarium. Nitosomonas and Nitrobacter don't seem to be present in our aquariums to any degree. There are chemoheterotrophs that will do nitrification, and that is another likely mechanism in a saltwater environment.
I couldn't understand your first paragraph.
I couldn't understand your first paragraph.
philbo32
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Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter are freshwater and therefore I agree that they wouldn't be in our tanks but Nitrosococcus oceanus and Nitrococcus will be as these are there salt water counterparts so to speak. These do not use organic compounds though only ammonia (in case of nitrosococcus) nitrite(in case of Nitrococcus) and CO2.
Methane can be oxidised by Nitrosococcus oceanus to CO2, all inorganically; http://aem.asm.org/cgi/reprint/45/2/401
What couldn't you understand about my first paragraph?
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I agree that there are such organisms in saltwater, but I don't know of any data showing that they are common in our tanks. They might be, but I haven't seen the data. I thought there were saltwater species in the Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter genera. Vendors often advertise such species for our tanks. I'll have to check that part out.
The first sentence didn't make complete sense to me. Did you mean that the bacteria would be mostly aerobic, with some performing anaerobic processes? Anoxic would refer to the water column. It's possible and probably likely that most of the metabolism in a rice reactor is aerobic, but microbial films could be present, too.
The first sentence didn't make complete sense to me. Did you mean that the bacteria would be mostly aerobic, with some performing anaerobic processes? Anoxic would refer to the water column. It's possible and probably likely that most of the metabolism in a rice reactor is aerobic, but microbial films could be present, too.
philbo32
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Yes, thats pretty much what I was saying that the majority of the bacteria would be working under aerobic environment and anoxic and a small number within the pores of the rice grain working anaerobically.
Not sure what you mean by water column, do you mean water in the reactor or general water column of the tank, if so I assume both would be aerobic not anoxic.bertoni said:
Agreed and I would definitely have thought that microbial films will be present.bertoni said:
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