My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges

[Big E]

Hi Wally,

I may have missed exactly what the current status is so correct me on some of this if needed.

I agree with Matt, those frags are rough looking on post #230 Do you have a source you can get some healthy and vibrant frags to test regardless of which tank you put them in? If possible something you can see in person.

Starting out with shutdown frags is an uphill battle even in a thriving system.

If it was me I'd keep the LEDs off for now. Run the halides 6 hours and the T5 for 8 hours. Get the fixture down to a height where you're at 300-350 par at mid level in the tank. Early on you had the fixture way too high, but I think you know that now. You can work the LEDs back into the mix once the corals are doing good for a few months.

Use one brand of salt......just pick one you like. You can adjust alk, calc doses easily.

Dose just alk and calc no other combo additives. If you've used the standard ESV and had success on your other system I'd go with that.

No coral foods or trace elements.

The basic idea is to simplify things for now and limit variables until the tank can stabilize.

I'd suck out that last bit of sand in the display for maintenance and consistent purposes.

 

[Wally.B]

Hi Wally,

I may have missed exactly what the current status is so correct me on some of this if needed.

Ed, first and foremost, thanks for hopping over to my thread.
Between you and Reefmutt I have hope that this SPS Tank will be solved.

I agree with Matt, those frags are rough looking on post #230 Do you have a source you can get some healthy and vibrant frags to test regardless of which tank you put them in? If possible something you can see in person.


Starting out with shutdown frags is an uphill battle even in a thriving system.

Yes, I did get a few Corals from a Distressed Tank and that may have lead me astray, since some of the Original Corals are doing fine.

I'll get a few new Reasonably Priced Frags in Excellent Visual Condition (Personally inspected before purchase).

If it was me I'd keep the LEDs off for now. Run the halides 6 hours and the T5 for 8 hours. Get the fixture down to a height where you're at 300-350 par at mid level in the tank. Early on you had the fixture way too high, but I think you know that now. You can work the LEDs back into the mix once the corals are doing good for a few months.

After getting that PAR Meter, I clearly know what Height and Setting are good. (With Basic MH and T5).

I'll turn off the LED for now.

Will work slowly to get lighting to about 250Pars at Mid Level (Where most of the Frags Reside)
That will required me to Switch my Ballast from 150W, to (175W which I just did few days ago), and eventually to (250W).
MH (6 hours) and (T5 for 8 hours).

I expect a bit of Algae during this Lighting Increase, but with N & P so Low, it should be fine.
Greatest pain during Lighting increases (lowering lights) has been Sand Bed (which you address below...[ Get rid of it ])

Use one brand of salt......just pick one you like. You can adjust alk, calc doses easily.

Simple change, and going forward with just Tropic Marin Pro (pricey, but I trust it, and I've lost more money on Frags than a bucket of quality salt..

Dose just alk and calc no other combo additives. If you've used the standard ESV and had success on your other system I'd go with that.

Actually, I did a quick review of Thuis Thread (over time), and things were going well till I started Dosing AF (1,2,3). It's probably not the single reason, but you raise an interesting Point.

I will empty my Dosing Reservoir and fill it with ESV (Alk,Calc) which I have for my other Tank.

I have to be careful since ESV is much higher concentration that AF.

No coral foods or trace elements.

Nothing has been added to DT after Reefmutt slapped my hands and sealed all my additives an Coral foods in the Vault.

The basic idea is to simplify things for now and limit variables until the tank can stabilize.

I’d suck out that last bit of sand in the display for maintenance and consistent purposes.

Yes, I wanted to get rid of the Sand (Since Rocks are clean, but Sandbed isn't looking great), and your little push helps.
Will be done today.

Many thanks to Reefmutt and you Ed for your assistance.

Stay tuned, I'll post when I make the adjustments.

 

[Wally.B]

First Adjustment (Lighting)

Ed,

The SPS tank is in Basement (Sump Room, no windows), built into Wall and I view from my Office...., so when no TANK Lights ON it's Pitch Dark BLACK.

From your Recommendation (6 Hours MH and 8 Hours T5), I wasn't sure if (T5 Should be on during MH), or Doesn't matter.

To give me more viewing Time I staggered things this Way.

Everything adds up to the recommended times.

The MH lights are 2x 175W (for now)

One T5 is an ATI Coral Plus.
One T5 is an ATI Blue Plus.

THE POWER LED is turned off. I just have a Low Power Blue LED Strip for 1 hour before Closing time.

I assume this is good.

 

[Wally.B]

In the Process of Removing SANDBED

I off for two weeks starting today, and away down south next week.

Why not get this out of the way.

It's not too big of a job since all the Sand was blown onto the Left side of Tank.

More details to come after I'm done.

 

[Wally.B]

Sand Bed Remove (Tank Circulation Refined)

It was pretty easy to remove the Sand Bed.

- Just had to remove 5-6 Medium/Large Rocks on Left Side.

- Used BrineShrimp Net to Scoop most of it up.
- Followed by a Siphon Fine Cleaning.

Glad I had the Frag Tank since it was ideal to hold the Corals and Coral Rocks.

The Baserocks went into couple of bucket.

I was surprised to see how clean and nice the Rocks and to some degree the Corals looked in the Shallow Frag Tank. They never look like this in DT.


I had these Two Hydor Koralia Pump in the corner to keep good circulation for the Sand Bed. (Didn't work too well). (I removed them)

With no more Sand Bed (I can Crank Up the Circulation), so I installed the CP-40 opposite the MaxSpect XF150.

-> The MaxSpect XF150 is Controlled by Apex and IceCap Module.
-> The Jecod CP-40 will be controlled by the WiFI Module (for now it's running on the Basic Controller)

They will alternate and also Crash Into Each other for a Random Circulation. Much better than a Single Gyre Pump at one end as in the past.

The reason the sandbed was on the Left Side was due to only 1 Powerful Gyre.
Two will be circulation in both directions, and when both running more down the middle.

Surface view show the good Surface Circulation with both on.


THE TANK IS CLEARING UP and I'll post a Photo of the New Look one it clears.

(Only change is left side, and I decided to mount all the remaining Good SPS Frags (Struggling ones are in FRAG tank to either Heal or live their last bit of life))

 

[Wally.B]

SPS Tank (With No SandBed) NEW LOOK

Still will take a while to clear up, but here is the No Sand Bed Look.

BEFORE (With Sand Bed) Month Ago (while Frags were OK)

NOW (NO Sand Bed) (Dual Gyre Pumps)

I kind of like the way it looked before, but good enough for this next Journey (Keeping Frags Healthy and Alive)..

Happy I moved the Some Rocks away from the Glass since I couldn't clean with Magnet all around. Hated that!! (Thus why things are bit more compact).

(It's hard to tell in Photo, but I did make all Rocks Open Spaced, for Flow Thru, and Cave for fish to Have Shelter with Stronger Circulation)

One rock was flipped so the Corals at back are now visible in the Front. (That I like).

And last but not least......I do miss the sand bed look a bit... (When it was Sparkling White),
but it wasn't white all around (Icky Brown Spots, so Look forward to overall Tank Clean Look and Water Clarity.

 

[reefmutt]

Nice new flow situation.
Once some corraline grows on the floor, it won't look so bare.
You could also put some encrusting montis or favia type corals on the bottom..
Careful with the montis, though.. they can take over...
Good start. It's a waiting game, now. Not the easy part, I know!
This should be months, not weeks..

 

[Big E]

Ed,

The SPS tank is in Basement (Sump Room, no windows), built into Wall and I view from my Office...., so when no TANK Lights ON it's Pitch Dark BLACK.

From your Recommendation (6 Hours MH and 8 Hours T5), I wasn't sure if (T5 Should be on during MH), or Doesn't matter.

To give me more viewing Time I staggered things this Way.

Everything adds up to the recommended times.

The MH lights are 2x 175W (for now)

One T5 is an ATI Coral Plus.
One T5 is an ATI Blue Plus.

THE POWER LED is turned off. I just have a Low Power Blue LED Strip for 1 hour before Closing time.

I assume this is good.

I would run the T5s 8-9 hours and sandwich the 6 hours of MH in the middle. So an hour or so on each end of the MH. You can work up the total hours if you choose later on.

From the one picture it looks like you don't have reflectors on the T5s? If not, get some..........they snap right onto the bulbs. Without reflectors your bulbs are very inefficient. This also allows you to angle them slightly if you chose to direct the light towards the center more.

 

[Wally.B]

I would run the T5s 8-9 hours and sandwich the 6 hours of MH in the middle. So an hour or so on each end of the MH. You can work up the total hours if you choose later on.

From the one picture it looks like you don't have reflectors on the T5s? If not, get some..........they snap right onto the bulbs. Without reflectors your bulbs are very inefficient. This also allows you to angle them slightly if you chose to direct the light towards the center more.

I will do as you say with Sandwiched T5 Timing (So Total Main Lighting (T5 staggered 1 hour) is 9 hours, 2pm-11pm, but MH 6 remains Hours).
My Low Power Blue Led Strip can handle 9am-2pm, and 11pm-midnight.

The T5's Do have High Quality Reflectors. Snap On.

 

[Wally.B]

The Green Slimmer in SPS DT.

I did more the Green Slimer from Frag Tank to the New Sandless DT.

Looks a bit more happier since showing signs of PE.

 

[Wally.B]

INTERESTING OBSERVATION (Rough Frag Trip Possible Explaination) All Same Frag Source

I just noticed this when I reviewed my History.

Thing were going well till I got confidence to get more Frags.

I was frustrated as things were deteriorating, so didn't notice the fact that All/Majority of the Frags that gave me problems over the last while were from the Same Supplier.

All original Frags, and a couple I got elsewhere are dong fine, or So-So.

Long shot, but it may be the Frag Supplier has different Water Parameters and the transition to my Tank was some kind of shock.

I did not acclimatize the corals, and I never have. I also did not Dip Them (I stopped dipping recently).

I accept the Red Dragon going since I've never been able to keep one.
I could see the Pink Cadillac going since it was tiny and maybe hard to keep.
The Gomezi should have been fairly hardy.
But two Sunset Acros purchased separately from same supplier seems kind of a coincidence.

In general they all bleached pretty fast considering my tank Water Parameter are very stable.
They bleached faster then I've every had a Frag Bleach. Usually my Frags have slow deaths.

I will talk to Supplier and see if other purchasers had similar issue.

 

[sensei]

Wally,

Didn´t this frags come from GTA? I ask because his frags looks healthy
I doubt that you would shock all the corals if they were healthy because your water parameters (alk and nutrients) seem preatty normal.

If I were you, I would follow Ed recomendations by the book and stop doing changes until sps are proveen to grow and maintain color in your sps tank. I had a lot of problems starting my 600g sps system and if it was not because of his advice I would still be having a lot problems.

Lights were a mayor issue in my tank. After all I have been through, I believe you should NOT do any leds for the moment and just do the Halides and the T5s but ALL LIGHTS ON AT SAME TIME as he recomended. You will have to measure par again with halides and T5s on at same time to be sure you are in the range.


once you have the lights as Ed recomended, you can try 2 or 3 test frags and see how it goes.

regards

 

[Wally.B]

Wally,

Didn´t this frags come from GTA? I ask because his frags looks healthy
I doubt that you would shock all the corals if they were healthy because your water parameters (alk and nutrients) seem preatty normal.

You are correct about GTA's corals. The one's that I still have are doing fine.
The Green Slimer which is doing well, I got from GTA last week.
So I do love GTA's collection and healthy quality.

It's the new ones I got from Somewhere else that I lost quickly, recently. The "Sunsets", the "Pink Calidac", the "Gomezi"

If I were you, I would follow Ed recomendations by the book and stop doing changes until sps are proveen to grow and maintain color in your sps tank. I had a lot of problems starting my 600g sps system and if it was not because of his advice I would still be having a lot problems.

Lights were a mayor issue in my tank. After all I have been through, I believe you should NOT do any leds for the moment and just do the Halides and the T5s but ALL LIGHTS ON AT SAME TIME as he recomended.

Yes, I am listening to Ed's advice.
I did set my Lights as he recommends (T5/MH all on). NO more staggering. No more High Power LED.

I still have to work to slowly Lower the Fixture Height and to Bring Up the Ballast Power up to 250W (Currently at 175W, but increased from 150W).

What I'm doing is Lowering the Fixture slowly. Then just before increasing Power, raise fixture, and then lower for the Final Level.

You will have to measure par again with halides and T5s on at same time to be sure you are in the range.

The recent PAR reading I did (extensively) were with only MH and T5. (LED separately).
I measure MH at (150W, 175W, 250W) at many Heights.

So I know my Target Height at 250W Setting.

once you have the lights as Ed recomended, you can try 2 or 3 test frags and see how it goes.

That is the plan, and for me to get to 300+ Par at mid level it will take a while.

NO MORE NEW FRAGS till I am at Proper Photo Period and Intensity.

I do have a few Frags in Frag Tank that I can throw in, since No risk.

BTW. The Frag Pieces that I threw into my Kitchen Mixed Tank are looking Great (Health,Color,PE). I'll post a better photo.

 

[Wally.B]

LIGHTING (To Target PARS (Slow/Careful) RAMP UP) How quickly? What Increments?

Hi Wally,

....... Get the fixture down to a height where you're at 300-350 par at mid level in the tank. Early on you had the fixture way too high, but I think you know that now. You can work the LEDs back into the mix once the corals are doing good for a few months.

Ed, I have one important last question.

I can easily Achieve 300-350 PARS at Mid Level as you suggest.

I did these measurements with a Quatum Meter Not too long ago.

Please note my Bulbs are 250W MH [Pheonix 14K] (, but my Ballast is switchable so I can go 150W, 175W, 250W and HQI)

The T5's are 1x [ATI Coral Plus] and 1x [ATI Blue Plus], both with Reflectors.

So based on those measurements I'm NOW around 200 PARS with (with MH@175W and both T5's ON)

HOW SHOULD I MOVE Towards getting to 300-350 PARS?

I have two ways to get there, and that is my planned approach.

Step 1) Slowly Lower MH Light Fixture

Step 2) Then Switch Ballast to Next Power Level and Raise Light Fixture
------> This is to keep PARS same as I enter new Power Level

Step 3) Then continue from Step 1.

So the question is how MANY PARS can I increase (Safely) for each Increment?

And at what rate? (Increase every Week, Every Month,....)

I didn't measure below 12" but I can easily rent the Quantum Meter again.

I mention this since I may not want to use HQI Setting to get to 290PARS at 12" Fixture Height. (Since HQI decreases bulb life)

I will be better off staying at 250W and lower below 12" which I need to measure again.
Going below 12" reduces the Spread and since I have Narrow MH Reflectors, spread gets a bit spotty.

 

[Wally.B]

TANK after Sand Bed Clean (Clear UP) and Last Frags Added from Frag Tank.

So the Tank has cleared up a bit more after the Sand Bed Removal.

(Fine Particulate still floating around since Improved Circulation won't let it settle. It will all eventually get removed thru Overflow/Sump)

I also selected a few more Frags from Frag Tank and added them after pruning off any unhealthy parts.

Not much left in Frag Tank except scraps.

I did also cut off any bleached tips with Algae growing on them, so tank is all somewhat healthy frags.

And...I was a sucker to get one more Frag when I visited Canada Corals today (Got the Green Monti seen in the Lower Middle of Tank)

So this is the Tank for the PAR increase Journey.

To colors shown in photo are what my Eyes See in person.

 

[Wally.B]

Another Visit to Canada Corals (To see my Finger Leather) Doing Well

I did go to Canada Corals today since they emailed me that the Finger Leather (That Outgrew my Kitchen tank) which I Sold to them was getting Acclimatized in their Display Tank.

It really opened up nicely.

I actually met a guy in the Lobby Looking at the Display Tank.
He pointed to the Leather and said "That's a Beautiful Coral". It was cool to tell him, that I Personally grew it from a tiny finger.

Wish I could be as successfully some day with SPS.

I don't miss it since I did get lots of room back in the Kitchen Mixed tank.

 

[Wally.B]

New Powder Brown Tang (Schooling with Blue Green Chromis) Awesome!!

That Powder Brown Tang I got a couple of weeks ago for Kitchen DT is Just Amazing.

He changed the whole Social Behavior with the Blue Green Chromis Bullies that were killing is other off.

The Powder Blue like to swim in the Koralia Pump Current every night before Lights go off.

And today I notice the Blue Green Chromis's joined in.

All Four are swimming in the Current like a school.
They take turns being leader, and you can see Chromis #2 getting into Position to be #3 in the school.

That's amazing!! The all get along.

My friend said this is "Alpha" behavior. Something about needing a Stronger Leader which the Powder Brown is doing for them.
This is stopping them from Competing with each other and killing each other off.

I had 7 Chromis to start. Now 3 left after 4 killed by their own.

Looks like they will now all live happily every after.

 

[Wally.B]

One Week away (From Seeing a Gorgeous Real Reef) "Coral Gardens Reef" (Turks and Caicos)

This is where were a going next Saturday for a week.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Coral+Gardens/@21.7856437,-72.2066893,1208m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x894b491f93c15781:0xc5ccdffac3f71b38!8m2!3d21.7856387!4d-72.2045006

Not this specific hotel also called "Coral Gardens", but Just a short 10 minute bike ride away from our Hotel.
There is amazing Mexican Restaurant at the Reef Shore called "Somewhere".

It's a walk in Protected Reef "Princess Alexandra Park" accessible from the Sandy Shore. Shallow so perfect for snorkelling and good lighting since not deep like Diving.

My Daughter took this Photo last year of Coral Gardens from The Shore.
The Reef is protected from Snorkeler Damage by a Circle of Buoys seen on the right, but it does protrude out so you do get to swim with the fish and corals.
There is even a Warden on the Beach with a Whistle if anyone try's to breach the Buoys.

Water is crystal clear as seen in the wave.

This time I'm ready with the Under Water Camera Enclosure to bring back some Photo's to share with everyone.

 

[Big E]

LIGHTING (To Target PARS (Slow/Careful) RAMP UP) How quickly? What Increments?



Ed, I have one important last question.

I can easily Achieve 300-350 PARS at Mid Level as you suggest.

I did these measurements with a Quatum Meter Not too long ago.

Please note my Bulbs are 250W MH [Pheonix 14K] (, but my Ballast is switchable so I can go 150W, 175W, 250W and HQI)

The T5's are 1x [ATI Coral Plus] and 1x [ATI Blue Plus], both with Reflectors.

So based on those measurements I'm NOW around 200 PARS with (with MH@175W and both T5's ON)

HOW SHOULD I MOVE Towards getting to 300-350 PARS?

I have two ways to get there, and that is my planned approach.

Step 1) Slowly Lower MH Light Fixture

Step 2) Then Switch Ballast to Next Power Level and Raise Light Fixture
------> This is to keep PARS same as I enter new Power Level

Step 3) Then continue from Step 1.

So the question is how MANY PARS can I increase (Safely) for each Increment?

And at what rate? (Increase every Week, Every Month,....)

I didn't measure below 12" but I can easily rent the Quantum Meter again.

I mention this since I may not want to use HQI Setting to get to 290PARS at 12" Fixture Height. (Since HQI decreases bulb life)

I will be better off staying at 250W and lower below 12" which I need to measure again.
Going below 12" reduces the Spread and since I have Narrow MH Reflectors, spread gets a bit spotty.

A healthy coral isn't going to bleach at 300-350. I would just run the 250w setting to start at your 12" level. Running a 250w bulb at 150 or 175w doesn't make sense to me for quality lighting or spectrum.

You want to set it and forget it......that's the beauty of MH & T5.

I'm not familiar with your ballast, but from what I know of people with those type of ballasts they end up running the HQi setting.

For color later on you may decide you want to try a Radium bulb as well............ it's also designed for an HQI ballast. For now though, what you have should color and grow coral fine.

Read this link, it will help you better understand what I'm talking about.
Scroll down to 250w.

https://premiumaquatics.com/articles/radium

You can run the LED strip the last hour, but I wouldn't run that strip for any more than that for now. Without a dimmer and the fact it only puts out a single spectrum of approx. 450nm it can cause damage. Again, over time once things are going well you can experiment with adding it back slowly.

From your picture, you're barely hitting 250par at the 250w setting at 12". This should be okay till you come back from vacation. Once you're back you can try lowering the light a few more inches and the HQI setting down the road.

If you're using a Apogee for any par measurements make sure you have it set to "electric" mode. Measure this without the LEDs on.

I doubt your issues were ever bleaching corals but the opposite of not having enough light.

 

[Wally.B]

A healthy coral isn't going to bleach at 300-350. I would just run the 250w setting to start at your 12" level. Running a 250w bulb at 150 or 175w doesn't make sense to me for quality lighting or spectrum.

You want to set it and forget it......that's the beauty of MH & T5.

I'm not familiar with your ballast, but from what I know of people with those type of ballasts they end up running the HQi setting.

This is my CoralVue Luxcor Selectable Wattage Ballast.
http://www.coralvue.com/luxcore-250w-selectable-wattage-electronic-ballast

I did contact Bulb Manufacturer and they did confirm IN WRITING that I can run the 250W Bulb at 150W/175W but as you say, I would shift the Spectrum towards blue.

For color later on you may decide you want to try a Radium bulb as well............ it's also designed for an HQI ballast. For now though, what you have should color and grow coral fine.

Interesting. I will try a Radium for next MH Bulb Replacement.

I was under the impression that Phoenix bulbs are one of the best. And I just checked the Phoenix Bulb Box. It's says 14k-250HQI-PH. So good for HQI.
I assume I have some choices for Radium Bulb 14K, 20K. Which is better?

Read this link, it will help you better understand what I'm talking about.
Scroll down to 250w.

https://premiumaquatics.com/articles/radium

I will read up. Thanks.

You can run the LED strip the last hour, but I wouldn't run that strip for any more than that for now. Without a dimmer and the fact it only puts out a single spectrum of approx. 450nm it can cause damage. Again, over time once things are going well you can experiment with adding it back slowly.

If what you say is True that the 450nm blue light can cause damage, THEN YOU JUST SOLVED my 3 Year old Problem.

I've been running the Strip Off Peak lighting (in past 6-10 hours day), since like I said, my Tank is TOTAL DARKNESS without Tank Lighting.

The problem of Past could be BOTH ITEMS (Too Low Tank Lighting, and Filled in by Bad 450nm Lighting)


My Sump Room light is just a power cord so I can put it on a timer and give the Tank some Room lighting during Dark Time.

From your picture, you're barely hitting 250par at the 250w setting at 12". This should be okay till you come back from vacation. Once you're back you can try lowering the light a few more inches and the HQI setting down the road.

Ok. I'll try that. Setting Ballast to 250W at 12". This week I'll watch, and leave at this setting till I get back from Vacation.

I'm currently at 11" 175W, so I'll put fixture back to 12" and go 250W.
I expect a tiny increase in film Algae, etc....... but with Sand Bed Gone, this is the time for such changes.

If you're using a Apogee for any par measurements make sure you have it set to "electric" mode. Measure this without the LEDs on.

Yes, I did use "Electric" no "Sun" mode.
Yes, I did not measure with LED's on since I understand that LED's don't measure well with Basic Quantum Meters.

I doubt your issues were ever bleaching corals but the opposite of not having enough light.

I think you may be correct. Since in general my Lighting is on the Very Low Side.