My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges

[reefmutt]

I always associated the extension of mesenterial filaments on acros as a sighn they are hungry..
So, not abnormal but maybe something to keep an eye on.
I thought I noticed it when nutrients went down but recently in my tank, with nutrients down, I'm not really seeing them..
I'm not 100% sure why..

As for pb, yes.. I am a paying member so the links will work until 2018.. when I stop paying. ..

 

[Wally.B]

2nd P Test (Lower) Waited for Feeding to Clear out of Water Column.

Yeah, I kept the kids Kinder Egg Toys (During Nemo Theme) which they threw out after eating the Chocolate.

The Zmooch thing... wife was throwing out kids outgrown gizmo's and I thought it would make the Test Center more Friendly.

I did post the ATS Halt issue on the Algae Scrubber thread, to see what my issue is. PhotoPeriod or otherwise. (Hoping to get an answer)

 

[Wally.B]

I always associated the extension of mesenterial filaments on acros as a sighn they are hungry..
So, not abnormal but maybe something to keep an eye on.
I thought I noticed it when nutrients went down but recently in my tank, with nutrients down, I'm not really seeing them..
I'm not 100% sure why..

I generally don't see the extensions, but today with newcomer Frags, I thought I'd shoot a bit of Polyp Labs Polyp Booster in the Tank (A welcome treat!).
Maybe it makes them do that since the stuff is designed to trigger a feeding reaction.

 

[reefmutt]

Oh definitely. Polyp booster will make all the corals go bonkers.

Cheato and other algea need other elements to be healthy- potassium, iron, even boron.. maybe even iodine. If your system is limited in one of these, it'd stop algea growth..
Also think you are in the right track with a reduced photoperiod..

 

[Wally.B]

RED PLANET (Improvement/Recovery) Moved [Reference Photo's]

The RED Planet had it's base recede, and PE wasn't great.
It was suspicious of the Direct Laminar Flow on it.

First I moved into lower flow area, then just yesterday I re-directed the flow to be more distributed/random.

Will be watching for further Improvements.

 

[Wally.B]

Cheato and other algea need other elements to be healthy- potassium, iron, even boron.. maybe even iodine. If your system is limited in one of these, it'd stop algea growth..
Also think you are in the right track with a reduced photoperiod..

My assumption was twice a week 5% Water Changes, with Tropic Marin PRO Salt should be keep ALL Elements up.

To validate that, I'll test Potassium with Salifert Kit which I been too lazy to do on Regular Basis.
I don't dose any Potassium. So it will be an informative test. (Corals and Algae use it up).
I do have a 1kg Bag of KCL that I've never cracked open, since every test I've done it K was 390ppm.

I've read that Raising K too high leads to Algae Blooms. Don't want that, but with my ATS setup, I may have some wiggle room for higher K.

I also have an Salifert Iodine test kit. Used it only once. Why not do that too!! That would cover 2 out of 4 Elements you list above.

 

[Wally.B]

Potassium test shows a nice 400 ppm.

No point testing Iodine, I trust the Water Changes with Good Salt are doing the job. If K was even slightly off I would.

Let's see what the ATS photo period change does.

 

[Wally.B]

ALGAE SCRUBBER (Perpetual Nutrient Recycling Machine) Cowrie Snail

Matt,

I got a crazy theory about the Algae Scrubber stopping. IT Hasn't STOPPED!!
It hit me tonight, after posting on the Scrubber Form and explaining what was happening. (Scrubber Shutdown).

You mentioned this to me a while ago when I posted a comment about placing that Cowrie into my Sump a while ago. The one that shaved my SPS polyps clean.

I said I was placing him in the Algae Scrubber and he would have a feast.
You said it would be interesting if he recycled/consumed the Algae in the scrubber and created a 2nd nutrient byproduct with his waste (poo).

That Cowrie died a while ago (Nice shell, I have in on my Keyboard). But if you remember I had two, and I gave one to my brother in law since he was having GHA problems, but no SPS.
He kept it till he tore his tank apart not too long ago. I took it from him and put his Cowrie into my ATS. Not too long ago. Sometime this summer.

Now Cowrie wouldn't eat Macro Algae which is what the scrubber used to make.
100+ grams every 2 weeks. I think the first Cowrie died since Macro was all the Scrubber would make. N & P was high thus enough to produce macro.

However with my rebuild, and more water changes, N & P dropped.
Scrubber slowed down. Brother in Laws Cowrie went in around that time.
Every week, less and less Macro is what I was observing.
Couple week ago, I pulled out last Macro Clump. It wasn't even attached to Scrubber screen. Just floating.

So now the Scrubber only makes the fine GHA film on the screens.
Let's say like before 100 Grams every two weeks. That's 1.6 grams a day.
Maybe the Cowrie is consuming the screen algae (He loves the stuff, I have timelapse videos of him cleaning GHA off 1/4 of my Rockscape overnight. Way back during my GHA bloom, the big one.).
He is now trapped in my ATS section.

So he is recycling the Algae. Now comes the interesting part.
My P has dropped to around 0.05 on average, but N is hanging around 25.
A scrubber removes both N & P, but Cowrie is putting it back as another form.

The Scrubber is first section of sump. The Skimmer 2nd section. The GFO 3rd.
The Skimmer with ATS running is really producing a lot of Thick Skim. More than in past.
Skimmer is removing the bad stuff that the Cowrie is recycling by eating ATS Algae.

Maybe some of the P is being removed by the 3rd section with the GFO.
The Nitrates are looping/recycling, but some gets removed by the Skimmer.

Does any of this theory explain why I have a sparkling clean scrubber? Yet a roaring Skimmer.

Does is explain my P dropping? N not so much?

Basically I've created a Self Cleaning Algae Scrubber.
Crazy theory eh?

I know electronics but not Chemistry, Biology, Element/Nutrient conversion, Nutrient Cycles, etc.

I posted the same theory on the Scrubber Forum and Asks for Experts to chime in.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25199526#post25199526

Too good to be true. A good thing? Maybe. Or Possibly not good, if some kind of toxins are being introduced with the re-cycle.
I have to throw in the TimeLapse camera on the Scrubber. That will be some evidence. Seeing the Self Cleaning Scrubber running with a Cowrie as the Engine.

 

[Wally.B]

WEBCAM (On Algae Scrubber)

I'm going to find out what's going on in Scrubber.
1 minute Timelapse Capture setup on WebCam.

First Peek Photo at Bottom, I see two snails already working in there.

In last 10 minutes WEBCAM Captures the two snails zipping around the Scrubber Screens (Sped up time-lapse, 10 frames)

Wonder if 2nd New Cowrie is still alive and working too?

 

[Wally.B]

SEPT 1st is HERE (Promise Kept on No Additives/Coral Feeding) Learned/Achieved Much

Matt,

I took a small precaution to Ensure "I keep my word" on "NO Additives" till Sept.

I will have a tough time with my Daughters little wooden toy hammer and the Acrlyic Sealed Box.

Now do you have faith in me?

I kept my NO (Additives/Coral Food) promise, (* 2 Months * ) and I worked on other things:

-> Built the Frag Tank
-> Killed some Frags/Got some New Frags
-> Improved Lighting
-> Improved Circulation
-> REMOVED Sand Bed
-> Scrubber Slowed down.
-> Survived 1 week Vacation away from Tank without any Catastrophie

My greatest Achievement is finally getting the correct PARS/Photoperiod in my Tank and it didn't start a Algae Bloom.

So based on the fact that Scrubber has slowed down, it appears it has the capacity to handle more waste/nutrients.

Shutting down the Skimmer and see if Scrubber Takes over is an interesting thought. (But I'm too Chicken to try that at this point)

I notice the SPS extend their Mesenterial Filaments when I used the Poly Lab Polyp Booster, which confirms that Product does work to trigger what they promise (which is a feeding response).

I am going to try this for one month:

-> Use the Polyp Booster once every other day just before feeding Corals at NIGHT.
-> Feed the Corals only one of the Foods I have.
------> Reef Nutrition OsterFeast
------> Reef Roids
------> AF Coral Food
------> Coral Frenzy

-> ON ALTERNATE DAY (No Coral Foods) I will use one of these Vitamins/Aminos/Supplements:
------> Seachem Fuel
------> Acro Power
------> AF Vitalizer

I won't be using any other the other Additives/Color Enhancers: like B-Balance, Phols Xtra, AF Build, etc

I will be watching Corals, Scrubber and Tank to see effects. Positive or Negative.

 

[Wally.B]

I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE (Feeding FISH like Crazy) Till Scrubber wakes up

I've been thinking about the Scrubber. Why it shut down so drastically?

It's designed well since it worked like a horse before.

This summer has been low feedings, with Frag Tank and other Projects, two weeks away on Vacation, etc.

I know starting to Feed Corals and Fish too much can get me into trouble.

But I've been there before (to the extreme).

Cyano!!! It looks awful, but doesn't damage Corals, and it does go away eventually.

Algae is another thing that can come with too high nutrients.

-> However I have protection/Buffer. The Algae scrubber should be first to get Algae since Highest Flow and Algae Specific Lighting.
-> The auto water changes (twice a week) should help with flushing the system.

-> I also removed all floss, carbon, old ChemiPure Bags, and just left the Marine Pure Bio-Wall. Dropping ZeoBak and AF -NPpro.
------> All to enable a Organic vs Inorganic Nutrient setup.

I didn't have experience in past to notice the early warnings in DT.
This time I will notice well in advance and stop the feeding.

What can I lose. Some frags. Lost plenty doing everything right.

I may find out that things may get better.

Let's see.

 

[reefmutt]

ALGAE SCRUBBER (Perpetual Nutrient Recycling Machine) Cowrie Snail

Matt,

I got a crazy theory about the Algae Scrubber stopping. IT Hasn't STOPPED!!
It hit me tonight, after posting on the Scrubber Form and explaining what was happening. (Scrubber Shutdown).

You mentioned this to me a while ago when I posted a comment about placing that Cowrie into my Sump a while ago. The one that shaved my SPS polyps clean.

I said I was placing him in the Algae Scrubber and he would have a feast.
You said it would be interesting if he recycled/consumed the Algae in the scrubber and created a 2nd nutrient byproduct with his waste (poo).

That Cowrie died a while ago (Nice shell, I have in on my Keyboard). But if you remember I had two, and I gave one to my brother in law since he was having GHA problems, but no SPS.
He kept it till he tore his tank apart not too long ago. I took it from him and put his Cowrie into my ATS. Not too long ago. Sometime this summer.

Now Cowrie wouldn't eat Macro Algae which is what the scrubber used to make.
100+ grams every 2 weeks. I think the first Cowrie died since Macro was all the Scrubber would make. N & P was high thus enough to produce macro.

However with my rebuild, and more water changes, N & P dropped.
Scrubber slowed down. Brother in Laws Cowrie went in around that time.
Every week, less and less Macro is what I was observing.
Couple week ago, I pulled out last Macro Clump. It wasn't even attached to Scrubber screen. Just floating.

So now the Scrubber only makes the fine GHA film on the screens.
Let's say like before 100 Grams every two weeks. That's 1.6 grams a day.
Maybe the Cowrie is consuming the screen algae (He loves the stuff, I have timelapse videos of him cleaning GHA off 1/4 of my Rockscape overnight. Way back during my GHA bloom, the big one.).
He is now trapped in my ATS section.

So he is recycling the Algae. Now comes the interesting part.
My P has dropped to around 0.05 on average, but N is hanging around 25.
A scrubber removes both N & P, but Cowrie is putting it back as another form.

The Scrubber is first section of sump. The Skimmer 2nd section. The GFO 3rd.
The Skimmer with ATS running is really producing a lot of Thick Skim. More than in past.
Skimmer is removing the bad stuff that the Cowrie is recycling by eating ATS Algae.

Maybe some of the P is being removed by the 3rd section with the GFO.
The Nitrates are looping/recycling, but some gets removed by the Skimmer.

Does any of this theory explain why I have a sparkling clean scrubber? Yet a roaring Skimmer.

Does is explain my P dropping? N not so much?

Basically I've created a Self Cleaning Algae Scrubber.
Crazy theory eh?

I know electronics but not Chemistry, Biology, Element/Nutrient conversion, Nutrient Cycles, etc.

I posted the same theory on the Scrubber Forum and Asks for Experts to chime in.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25199526#post25199526

Too good to be true. A good thing? Maybe. Or Possibly not good, if some kind of toxins are being introduced with the re-cycle.
I have to throw in the TimeLapse camera on the Scrubber. That will be some evidence. Seeing the Self Cleaning Scrubber running with a Cowrie as the Engine.

I think this theory makes perfect sense..
The cowrie is too efficient though.
I think you'd have better results without the cowrie- or one with like 1/3 the efficiency- along with regular cleaning of the screens.

 

[reefmutt]

I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE (Feeding FISH like Crazy) Till Scrubber wakes up

I've been thinking about the Scrubber. Why it shut down so drastically?

It's designed well since it worked like a horse before.

This summer has been low feedings, with Frag Tank and other Projects, two weeks away on Vacation, etc.

I know starting to Feed Corals and Fish too much can get me into trouble.

But I've been there before (to the extreme).

Cyano!!! It looks awful, but doesn't damage Corals, and it does go away eventually.

Algae is another thing that can come with too high nutrients.

-> However I have protection/Buffer. The Algae scrubber should be first to get Algae since Highest Flow and Algae Specific Lighting.
-> The auto water changes (twice a week) should help with flushing the system.

-> I also removed all floss, carbon, old ChemiPure Bags, and just left the Marine Pure Bio-Wall. Dropping ZeoBak and AF -NPpro.
------> All to enable a Organic vs Inorganic Nutrient setup.

I didn't have experience in past to notice the early warnings in DT.
This time I will notice well in advance and stop the feeding.

What can I lose. Some frags. Lost plenty doing everything right.

I may find out that things may get better.

Let's see.

With n at 25, since the scrubber shutdown, and assuming it didn't really shutdown but was grazed to extinction, I'm not so sure an increase in feeding is really the way to go.. yet..
I think you need to establish whether or not it was really the cowrie that halted the scrubber.
I think it would be prudent to change very little and remove the cowrie from the scrubber and see if the scrubber resumes.
Once n is back down to where it was when scrubber was functioning normally, and the baseline has been established, then try the big feed and see if the system keeps up.
If you do it now with the cowrie not giving the algea a change to re establish, you may run into problems... this is my theory anyways..

 

[Wally.B]

With n at 25, since the scrubber shutdown, and assuming it didn't really shutdown but was grazed to extinction, I'm not so sure an increase in feeding is really the way to go.. yet..
I think you need to establish whether or not it was really the cowrie that halted the scrubber.
I think it would be prudent to change very little and remove the cowrie from the scrubber and see if the scrubber resumes.
Once n is back down to where it was when scrubber was functioning normally, and the baseline has been established, then try the big feed and see if the system keeps up.
If you do it now with the cowrie not giving the algea a change to re establish, you may run into problems... this is my theory anyways..

Good point about N. Are you concerned about N too high for Corals, or N too high to start Algae Bloom?

I will be checking N every other day or so. P at least once a week.

I did watch the Timelapse video in the scrubber. Certainly there is activity by the Cowrie and the 2 Astrea Snails. They run up and down screen and walls.

I can't see them sterilizing the screens to the point of extinction since screen are full of porous holes, and they only clean the surface.
The screens are still primed to trigger and algae growth since I see green (in holes)

I don't want to remove the Cowrie at this point since I don't want to starve him. HE CANNOT GO in DT (since SPS eater).
But I will remove the two Astreas, they will enjoy the Glass Film in DT.

Scrubber is now at 12 hours, vs 22 before, so that may be needed.

I will feed more (but not Crazy), based on your warning.

 

[reefmutt]

It's just that your theory makes sense but if it isn't the cowrie (and snails) that stopped your algea growth, then something else did. If it wasn't the cowrie, then adding more nutrients (foods) isn't going to make the algae grow more because it is being limited somehow. Adding more food will only push n and p higher..
Removing snails is a good idea.
N of 25 isn't necessarily too high if you don't have an algea problem, heck my system sat at 50 for months, but it isn't necessarily a good thing either. ..

 

[Wally.B]

It's just that your theory makes sense but if it isn't the cowrie (and snails) that stopped your algea growth, then something else did. If it wasn't the cowrie, then adding more nutrients (foods) isn't going to make the algae grow more because it is being limited somehow. Adding more food will only push n and p higher..
Removing snails is a good idea.
N of 25 isn't necessarily too high if you don't have an algea problem, heck my system sat at 50 for months, but it isn't necessarily a good thing either. ..

Yes, I agree 100% and thanks for the thought.
I think that starting up Scrubber is most important at this point. Regardless of current N & P.

Skimmer is running nuts with Thick Smelly Output, and a lot. So nutrients flowing.
AND!! Skimmer is after Scrubber.

From Time Lapse Video I saw Astrea's humming like bee's on the Scrubber screens.
Screens maybe need to get to critical mass point to take off, and Astrea's won't let it happen.

Cowrie was moving, but more at the bottom. No sure what he is up to. Too dark.

Two Astrea's are in now in DT. They dashed for the Glass Film right way. So useful there too.

Let's see what happens to scrubber with 2/3 cleaners gone.

 

[Wally.B]

GOING TO (PRIME) the SCRUBBER Screens

Now that Astrea's are gone, I will do what I initially did way back when I started up the scrubber.

I will Alage prime the cleaned screens.

It's an MODDED Upflow/Waterwater design, so screen sit in water.
The Astrea's didn't clean to top tips of the screens since they don't like to come out of water. There is some algae there.

I'll smear (With toothbrush) whatever algae is left on the screen tips, over the whole cleaner screen surface.
Maybe even rough them up fresh a bit.

That should certainly help.

 

[Wally.B]

THE Alage Scrubber Screens (Look Like Never Before) Coraline Too!

I did some priming (using the bit of left over Algae at TOP TIPS)

But I haven't ever seen the screens like this Ever Before.
I haven't taken them out all summer since there wasn't any algae building up.

No need to rough them up more, the coralline that grew on them is idea.

Scrubber compartment is pretty clean too. Algae usually grows on Bottom Glass Side where the RED LEDS are.
There is the Cowrie.

Weird. I wish I had more algae to smear. Shouldn't curse myself with such thoughts.

I was thinking of using some Cheato from my other Tank, but that' the one with Possible, Ich, so no way I'm going to contaminate this tank.

However after seeing how clean the screens are, I'm doing to reduce the Output on the LED's to 60%. My power supply is variable.
And I can still run longer Photo Period hours.
That is a better way to kick start the Scrubber.

 

[reefmutt]

Something to consider: corraline algea is good (but not 100% effective) at inhibiting the growth af nuisance algea....

 

[Wally.B]

Something to consider: corraline algea is good (but not 100% effective) at inhibiting the growth af nuisance algea....

Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing.

But there is plenty of surface areas without corraline. Starting pure virgin screens would be worse.

Will be interesting to see if Algae comes back, if Coralline sections Resist.

If Algae comes back, I can replace the screens. Smear the growth on new ones.
They are like $2 a sheet.