My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges

[Wally.B]

New Nitrate Test kit arrived today.

I always learn from past. Never Trust a test kit on last few drops.

I tested, and double tested, and triple tested.

NITRATE= 10 or possibly less. Certainly not just under 25 that I was testing with old kit.

Really hard to tell, so I did some photo color analysis.

Cutting out a square color Sample from Test Vial, and pasted square on the Color Ranger.

From photo I would say Nitrate is >5 <10. which is in the right direction.

 

[Wally.B]

Don't get me wrong about not wanting to save the Power Brown Tang.

I suffer anguish when I see snails dying.

Right now I have Serious Higher Priorities.
I got a call from my Sister. She didn't tell me that my mom was sick TILL few hours ago.
She is 82, and she went to doctor today after being really sick over last few days. Really bad.
Doctor said she has pneumonia, and her left lung is filled with water.
He won't prescribe her an antibiotic since she MUST go to hospital for better in-hospital treatment.
Mom doesn't want to go tonight since she hates the night shift awful waits, and limited staff, labs.
I pushed really hard to go, but she won't go tonight.
We are going first thing in the morning.
I am terribly worried sick and distracting myself with my tank and stuff, since I won't be able to sleep at all till I get her to hospital.

 

[Wally.B]

I had time to think things thru, waiting for morning...

The other reason for delaying the Tang and all fish extract is, even with fish trap it will won't be easy and will take time to catch them all (Thus more than 12 days for TTM, possibly much more).

At this point the Tang isn't acting weird at all. Swimming peacefully in current. Not scratching, eating everything. Yes he may get worse, but I have to give the Meds a chance.

That Alage Blenny is a rare sight, since he spends most of the time keeping the tank Algae Free.
He is my Algae Scrubber. Without him, Hair Algae could come back, take over and ruin things.
He is fat but doesn't eat fish food. So I can't starve him to catch him in fish trap. Maybe with the Nori he likes.

If even one fish is left, the tank isn't Fallow and Ich will not be effectively eliminated 100%. That is your point Sensei, which I hear loud and clear.

The Kitchen Tank corals are more important to me.
Fish are kind of 2nd priority. Important but 2nd.
I can go Fallow when the time comes (only IF I HAVE TO DO THAT, or they start dying which hasn't happened). Actually none of the other fish show any sign of Ick (yet).

Removing Fish for a long period of time changes keeping this tank healthy drastically. I don't feed the corals anything. Zero Coral Foods (Cap of Sachem Fuel maybe once a week if that).
That would have to change with no fish. Could be longer than 72 days for proper Last Fish Fallow, if takes time to catch the last one. And QT/TTM would be extended, needing repeats.

Old photo below (months ago).
Tank is actually nicer now:

A whole bunch of Zoa's showed up that I thought I lost.
MUTIPLE: Rastas, Blue/Purple Hornets, Pinwheels, and some LA lakers to name my favorites. A garden is starting, and I can't wait till they overlap..

The Acans have increased in size. Took me a while to learn placement.

The big Trumpet Candy Cane got so big, I sold it.

The Pine Apple Express Palys have spread. They are stunning as a patch under Actinic.
The Sunburst Paly is now a pair. Can't imagine what a patch of those will look like.

I will have to prune the Frogspans, even the expensive Gold Frogspawn & Gold Aussie Hammer, since they are too big and overlapping too much.

And I have expanded my Richordia collection with blues, and multi color Blue/Orange/Green.
And they are all doubling which took me ages to achieve since they grow slow. Progressive doubling/doubling means they will speed up more.

The only coral that really testing my Patience is the Aussie Torch. Wish it grew more since it's like no other LPS coral.

Things can wait with this tank. Ich won't hurt the Corals at all.

SUMMARY: The risk of ALL Removing Fish is High. For Tank & Coral Health. Choice is, One Tang possibly Dies, or big problem with all my Corals. I choose Corals!

I have been holding off on a picture update for this tank, till things mature a bit more and fill in. And some ornamental trimming.

Yes, I do have patience. Just not with my SPS tank, but I will try my best till Decemeber, knowing I have this tank in my Back Pocket to Cheer me up. (My SPS tank Depresses me, but a great challenge)

 

[sensei]

Wally,

I hope your mom gets better.

inded, you have a beautifull kitchen tank.

 

[reefmutt]

Wally, I sincerely hope your mom gets better. Very best wishes for you guys!!

Here is why I feel that doing this fallow method is practically useless:
Eradicating ich is a practical impossibility. You do all of the steps to remove fish and set up a qt and go fallow in the tank but the next fish OR coral could theoretically reintroduce ich.
Setting up a properly filtered qt system isn't easy and the stress of moving fish into it, with all the stress to the system the fish are coming from plus having to adjust to a new system, only to back again... I don't know.. on very small systems and small amounts of fish, maybe but otherwise, it just isn't worth the potential (not 100%) short lived benefits...
Like the common cold, ich and various other illnesses are everywhere. Pretty much guaranteed that ich cysts have made it into every holding tank in every salt water tank for every type of fish AND coral, everywhere. Based on the theory that ich cysts are so resistant.
I have had a couple pretty bad outbreaks of ich or oodinium that have knocked off a portion of my fish population. The rest of the fish recover, become a bit more resistant and then the disease goes dormant. I have even had a spontaneous reoccurrence that killed my mitratus butterfly and Achilles tang last year, so yes it may come back.. but you know what? I also added some snails from a supplier the week before so maybe the ich came from there.. not sure..
I just don't see the merits of this method when dealing with reef tanks. Fish only or fowler maybe...
Ttm is not 100% effective the minute you factor in every day life of a reef keeper. And ich is not a 100% death sentence either.... although, Wally, I have to say powder tangs have a really hard time beating it- BUT, I find the powder browns the most resistant, relatively speaking...
I know this opinion is not very politically correct but for me, it's more about practicality and weighing the overall odds..

 

[Wally.B]

Thanks Jorge, Matt, for the kind wishes.

I am in much better spirits. Sorry for getting bummed out last night.

Mom has been admitted to Hospital, Diagnosing after test is Early Stage Pneumonia. Needs to stay a few days and will be going home healthy.

Yes, Matt. I hear your points about ick, and I already explain my reasoning to not to TTM in a too long blah blah.

Mom will be on AntiBiotics, and in good care, now my turn to continue the ICH Guard Treatment on Tang.
Maybe miracles can happen, or like Matt says, maybe only 1 fish may die.

I just snapped a quick Photo of Tang TODAY. Before feeding Med Pellets.
Not great looking....

But That photo last night showed him way worse.

What also cheered me up after just getting home is this package that was on my doorstep.

I have to say Hydor Koralia provide Amazing Customer Support.
Two of my WORKING pumps had small cracks. And the one before Had a ground fault so I sent two two more to warranty/repair review.
They mailed me back two NEW replacements ($free)
The great part is originals were 4+ years old, so they honoured their LIFETIME WARRANTY.

And the greater part about having these pumps back, is I can put them back into my Kitchen tank, so Podwer Brown Tang can enjoy more swimming Current (which he loves). So do the LPS corals.

More Positive for tonight, since My Daughter's Baseball team won 1st place in the Championship. All summer they were undefeated. Lost only 1 game, and tonight is awards banquet.

Onward. Hands off SPS tank!!

 

[reefmutt]

Glad your mom is in good hands.
And congrats to your daughter!
Enjoy!

 

[Wally.B]

Algae Scrubber (Update) Past Time Till December [Digital Microscope Fun]

I promise no more Boring Alage Photos, till I get a nice harvest to show it's running again at Full Capacity.

So I decided to pull out the scrubber Screens and see what's happening in the Scrubber.

The Outside Basket Screen is now starting Macro Algae Buds.

The Inside Screen is growing more Macro.

This Closeup of the Macro Algae is Kind of Cool..

The Virgin Screen has Clearly started up the Slime Growth Phase.

And I thought the Airline for the Bubbles is growing Hair Algae.

But on Closer Inspection, it's not Hair Alage, it's a thinner Stringy Macro Algae.


I pulled out some Real Hair Algae from Frag Tank.
And it's quite different looking.

But to be sure, I pulled out that USB Digital MicroScope I got for the kids. (50x-500x Magnification)

They are fun, to check out all kinds of things. You dirty finger nails will freak you out. Cheap ones are $30.


To give you an Idea of the Magnification you get, this is a penny closeup.

I showed this to my kids a while ago.
Perfect way to get them to wash their hands after handling Public Money.

Anyways, here is the Thicker Macro Alage from My Scrubber.

Here is the Strandy Algae From Scrubber

And here is the Hair Algae from Frag Tank.

They are all similar in some ways at this magnification, since Algae is Algae.
Macro is as the word says is just "Thicker" Algae

But it is interesting to see that Algae is mostly water.
Which explains one thing when I was weighing my Harvest Export.
You don't have to feed 100 Grams of food, to get 100 Grams of Algae.

 

[Wally.B]

SPS TANK (All Water GONE!!) WOW

We'll it's not gone like tank leaked and drained, but I can't SEE the water anymore it's so clear.

The circulation improvement with pushing Particulates down overflow really improved the Tank Water Clarity. Today the difference is Drastic.

I first thought it was since MH lights were not yet on.
I turned on EVERY LIGHT I have on Max and I couldn't believe it.

Water is Crystal Clear with the odd Partile.
Hasn't been this way since I restarted this tank.

Also Cyano is also gone. The Coral Snow with Zeo Bak worked.
It could be also related to cleaning up the water particulate removal.
If large particles are gone, tank flushing affects everything going down overflow since Sump is cleaning it all up. (Feeding the Scrubber better)

Removing Sand Bed probably helped too.

Any improvement is a step in right direction for SPS too.

 

[reefmutt]

Nice macros of the algae.. I might look into one of those usb microscopes. I wonder if they make one with wifi connectivity so I could run it directly to my phone.
Don't forget, one of coral snow's stated benefits is clarification of the water. That could be helping as well..
Wally, is using air bubbles in the scrubber section a prescribed part of running a scrubber?
I would think the bubbles will lower potential co2 levels that would otherwise feed the algea..
I don't know the details of proper implementation of an algae scrubber..

 

[Wally.B]

Nice macros of the algae.. I might look into one of those usb microscopes. I wonder if they make one with wifi connectivity so I could run it directly to my phone.

This is the one I have just as a FYI. Don't get it since it's only Windows 7 and USB. (Price is SUPER low because of the Win7 only support, but I have Win 7 PC). Price sold me ($27.00CDN free ship, as zero risk,) I LOVE IT!!
I have even used it to read things like tiny serial numbers, Coin battery labels and stuff like that, that I can't see with typical glasses and lower lighting.

https://www.amazon.ca/XCSOURCE%C2%AE-20X-800X-Microscope-Endoscope-Magnifier/dp/B00N4K22OA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505409175&sr=8-1&keywords=digital+microscope

There are many, and you have to ensure you get the right one for your phone.

When you get one, it's the app that is important. In your case Iphone Phone App and Wifi. App included is a measurement app that will give you the size of the object you are looking at. More for scientists.

For features I just discovered something neat last night. It does photos, but also does live video. Why I say this, is I was trying to capture a photo of a copepod, and even in a drop of water, at 500x magnification, they move Fricken fast. So I had to let the drop dry and then I got one. Video might be useful.

Electronic Shutter is important for moving things. When a camera streams live image, Frozen Captured Moving Image will be blurred. NOT important at all for stationary objects.

Also what is really important is a built in Light. They all must have one, but wouldn't get one without a light.

I'm thinking it might be fun to try and do a 500x check on a real SPS.
Tiny piece, out of water of course. But then polyp would retract.

Don't forget, one of coral snow's stated benefits is clarification of the water. That could be helping as well..

I agree, that CS will clear up water, but in this case it was large particulates which CS doesn't really do much for. However all 3 ("Coral Snow", "OverFlow Drain Flow direction", and "round the clock higher circulation) probably worked hand in hand.

Wally, is using air bubbles in the scrubber section a prescribed part of running a scrubber?
I would think the bubbles will lower potential co2 levels that would otherwise feed the algea..
I don't know the details of proper implementation of an algae scrubber..

CO2 is important for Scubber.
And in Upflow type Scubbers, they run purely on Air bubbles (no pump). That was my first scrubber (Santa Monica Hog) and after success, I decided to build my custom version.
The way I see it is Oxygen doesn't interfere. But Air bubble from house air do have Carbon dioxide in them.
Algae Forums do discuss the benefit of More bubbles, better Algae. The fact that air bubbles brush against the screen, or surface.

If Air bubbles hurt, then there wouldn't be that fine Algae growing on my airline tube, since right there, is maximum bubbles spot. But that spot might be growing better it's seeded with previous Algae Growth that I didn't scrub off and Snails couldn't reach.

I tried with Air bubbles and without. Can't really notice any difference other than Air Line started growing Algae, and finer type.

 

[Wally.B]

Powder Brown Tang is getting worse.

I can tell since he doesn't appears to have good vision. Maybe it is co-ordination.
He knows the Medi pellets are falling around him but he has a hard time hitting them as targets. He does eat a few.

Otherwise he is swimming around in an usual manner. Maybe a bit slower.

I see no particular sign of weakness YET!!
And at least the usually aggressive Chromis fish are not bullying him, like they do each other.
The Chromis still like to swim with him in the current. That is something I will miss if he dies.

I am pretty convinced he isn't going to make it.

No other fish have any visible sign of Ick.
So my feeling is the Tank had Ick before I introduced the Tang (Since he got nothing in QT), and he got it from my tank soon after introduction.

 

[sensei]

Wally
To treat all.the fish and tank is a long process but you can do TTM to that only fish easily.
It is an easy cure and you could put him.in another of your tanks that has not shown signs of ich after his treatment. Even in frag tank.
12 days and he would.be cured.
I think in his condition he can be easily catched.
I just wanted to mention this option so you could decide what to do
I think fish had ich before and did not show signs because fish stores have low copper concentratiin in their water and that hides any sign of disease.

Good luck

 

[Wally.B]

Not a bad idea. Using Frag Tank and QT for TTM (both have no fish).

Even before you posted, I was trying to see if he would swim into a net.

I got close because he can't see so well.
Maybe in evening when it's dark. He swims in the current. I can get net ready, have son turn off lights and catch him.
Right now I have net hanging in tank so they get use to it.

He will certainly die in this tank, so now I have nothing to loose.

 

[Wally.B]

Interesting to See Green Paly's are getting Sick of Ich Guard Medicated Pellets.

These are at the bottom of my tank, just below feeding station.
Normally they act kind of like a CUC since Missed Pellets fall straight down.
Usually the Paly's close up instantly and eat any foods they catch.

The did initially gobble up the Ich Guard, but now they don't. They somehow got smart and figured out the food isn't good.
They now are acting like a dish/food dispenser and the Power Brown does come by and eat some.

 

[Wally.B]

Forest Fire Digitata (Photo Compare) 1 Week Later

I kind of like the way it originally looked, exposing more of the Green.

But I can't complain since extra Polyps is a good thing.

It is placed really low, and from Reading up, it will need more light.

I see Polyps always on the move, so Circulation is good enough. But I understand for it to stay thick, it will need more stronger circulation.


Not touching it at all till it tells me.

 

[Wally.B]

Coral Placement (Monti Move) For Improvement

I certainly won't move the Forest Fire any time soon.

But I did finally learn more about coral Placement by Listening/Watching my Green Monti.

It came into Tank Great, but after a few weeks it started Fading.
Got to the point I thought I was going to loose it.

So I moved it up and into better circulation, and it worked.

Also that Red Planet move down appears to have stopped the Receding.

 

[sensei]

Not a bad idea. Using Frag Tank and QT for TTM (both have no fish).

Even before you posted, I was trying to see if he would swim into a net.

I got close because he can't see so well.
Maybe in evening when it's dark. He swims in the current. I can get net ready, have son turn off lights and catch him.
Right now I have net hanging in tank so they get use to it.

He will certainly die in this tank, so now I have nothing to loose.

No, what I meant to say is that after TTM you can put the cured fish in your frag tank since you will not be able to place him back in same tank.

you do not want to use frag tank for TTM or you will get ich cysts all over and when you move frags to another tank you could pass ich all over.

If you do not have empty little tanks, you can use buckets or a plastic containers. 10gallons of water should be enough for doing TTM to 1 fish.

best of luck

 

[Wally.B]

No, what I meant to say is that after TTM you can put the cured fish in your frag tank since you will not be able to place him back in same tank.

you do not want to use frag tank for TTM or you will get ich cysts all over and when you move frags to another tank you could pass ich all over.

If you do not have empty little tanks, you can use buckets or a plastic containers. 10gallons of water should be enough for doing TTM to 1 fish.

best of luck

The Frag Tank has only 2 living Frags, and 2 Piece of Live Rock.
I was going to remove everything, separate Sump, and use it. Then sterilize.
I wasn't going to contaminate Rock/Frags, etc and then have to do a Fallow wait.

But I like your bucket/bin idea as the 2nd container. I have one 10 Gallon QT.

I'm exhausted trying to catch him every time I pass by. He is sleepy when he wakes up and not as quick so maybe in morning again.

So for now the net is hanging in Tank for him to get used to it.
I'll try again in a couple of days.
At least he is eating the Medicated Pellets.

But I would never put him in Frag tank for long term. I don't want to have fish in Frag tank since that means Feeding Fish in 3 tanks. 3 skimmer to clean, etc.... Too much.

One decision at a time. First I have to catch him (Net or Box). The First TTM 10 Gal tank is ready if I succeed in step (1).

 

[Wally.B]

Trusty OLD PinPoint (Cheap PH Probe) Confirms Apex Probe Reading Wrong.

I tried to Re-Calibrate the Apex Probe, but it still shows my PH way too low (7.76).

I didn't trust that since I checked Fresh Air Line and all is sealed.

So I dug out my Old Pinpoint Meter.
And I got tired of buying the Expensive Apex Brand Probes that die every year.
Mostly because they run 24/7

I got one of these (Months ago) on Aliexpress, as backup. Dirt cheap, but worth a try.

I calibrated the Probe.....

Now I trust that (Since that is what I was always getting with Fresh Air Line hooked up)

Sump Before Fresh Air Line Fed Skimmer

Sump After Fresh Air Line Fed Skimmer

Tank readings are usually somewhere in between.

I can't use the China Cheapo Probe in Tank on Apex, since the Cord is too short. Maybe I could get an extension, but then it could read wrong with Cord Connection/Noise/Conductivity.

I think my issue with Apex Probe is I need to do A better Calibration with Matched Temperature, then use the Temp Offset on the Apex.
I notice that the PH Graph swings exactly the same as Temp (on the Apex Graph). Apex is suppose to handle the Temp Offset automatically.