My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges

[Wally.B]

I've started using the Milwaukee digital refractometer and have been really impressed. I always had accuracy problems with the regular type, and the milwaukee makes things easy peasy. It's pricey but might be worth looking into.

Do you have to calibrate it often?
Do you have to deal with Temp Offset?
Easy to clean?

How about the accuracy. +/- What?

I ask this last question since I was looking into an Electronic Hanna for Alk, but it's not more accurate than a Salifert. Actually worse.
I love my Phosphorous Hanna.

 

[Wally.B]

FOREST Fire Digi (Recovery Update) Post PH Fix/Water Reset

My confidence continues to RISE that things have been significantly CORRECTED.

If a the Forest Fire that was very close to death is recovering this well, and so quickly. (The new Frags should be pretty happy)

 

[Wally.B]

Algae Scrubber (Update)

Too soon to make any conclusions on the Recent fix, and effect on Algae Scrubber. (Ie Did PH swings/Drop cause the scrubber to shut down???)

But it has woken up.

I didn't take the screens out to check, but what I usually see from above is much more/bigger inside.

Even the Primed (Virgin) Screen has growth all across it.

What matters most is that Scrubber is back online, and it will adjust it's growth according to nutrient levels (Automatically). Helping keep N & P under control.
I will turn up Photo Period to 22 Hours on Main Light Panel (MAX).
I did add an extra LED Panel at back (week ago), and it runs on same Schedule as the ATS for Kitchen tank.
(Opposite to DT lighting. At night. Which should help Flatten PH). BTW. PH is now peaking over 8. Almost 8.07, and rising

 

[Wally.B]

Free (Shipping not included)

I was actually thinking thing might get Boring.
Just waiting for Corals to grow slowly.

NOTHING WRONG With That.

Here is just what happened:

-> I left that Cowrie snail in the Frag Tank. (After Removing him from the Algae Scrubber)
-> Had WEB camera on him for a while. (He did really well cleaning all the Hair Algae, Film Algae)
-> Put in that those two tiny Green Pollicipora pieces to Compare Healthy to Recovery.
-> They were there last night. They were there few hours ago. (Both really healthy, and one Recovering)
-> Saw Cowrie working the Glass
-> Just passed by Frag Tank. One Pollicipora is shaven down to skelton.
-> The other Ripped off the plug and blown away (Half Shaven).

No big deal. No other frags in Frag Tank.
Glad this happened before there were Frags.

 

[reefmutt]

Wally, how many hours is your scrubber at now?
Why do you feel the need to increase photoperiod, right now?

 

[Wally.B]

Wally, how many hours is your scrubber at now?
Why do you feel the need to increase photoperiod, right now?

I currently have it at 20 hours and Green Macro is Growing, so is Hair Algae (I have both in two different areas)
So is Brown Slime/Green Algae Mix on New Screen.

The proper lighting time should be 18 hours which I will eventually settle down to.

But I can shortly increase photo period to get that new virgin screen going.

As stated on ATS Forum:
https://www.algaescrubbing.com/threads/algae-scrubber-basics.264/

If you are getting dark growth, then you need to increase the photoperiod.
If you are getting yellow growth, you need to decrease the photoperiod.
I suggest making adjustments in 1 or 2 hour increments per week until you get the desired green growth.

Just a few days, since new screen is kind of brown slime in the maturing stage right now. A Short Over-Photo-Period will will transition it to more green algae, and then I'll reduce.

My goal is to REPLACE of the Coralline covered Screens.
They are resisting attachment, and some of the macro is loosely floating around.

My past working screen had all macro growing on the Screens.
I could just pull the complete harvest out in one hand. Nothing left behind.

This is what my screens used to look like.

I documented the my Algae Scrubber in detail (All stages) in this thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2570553

-> Last time my photo period for Maturing was 15 hours.
-> When I was running full tilt for months, I was running 18hours.

There needs to be a No Light Period during the 24 hours cycle for Algae to recover.

 

[Wally.B]

Matt,

I just want to be clear. You can NOT run a Algae scrubber PHoto Period 24 hours, not even the 22 hours which I will use to boost the Virgin screen.

Ideal scrubber Photo Period once mature (from what I understand) is 18 hours.

The reason I am doing this is the new screen maturing.

But it's also another reason for my Scrubber Tinkering......(Nothing to do with Photo Period).
I am cultivating Three Strains of Algae.
-> A Thin string Hair Line Algae
-> A Thicker Macro Algae,
-> and Whatever is growing on the Brown Slime screen.

I think I'll end up with two Strains like last time, since this algae all originated in my tank. (ie I didn't buy algae from some store which you can)

What worked before what that two strain mix.
Thin stuff grew faster than thick, but thick was easy cultivation (easy to remove). Thin stuff took blade scraping (so hard to get off screen).

I Also think that both Strains of Algae had different benefits for the Tank Nutrient Export. (Kind of each is tuned to do something different, like Resin Polymer)
I don't know which is better, but I'm sure no harm, since neither was intrusive in Display Tank (Like some Algae's can be. Caulerpa is one. Bubble another since they spore reproduce.)

I recently read on the Scrubber Forum that Hair Algae will out compete Macro Algae. That could be true.
But from my recent Close-up Photos of my screens, the thin Algae isn't Typical Hair Algae, it's a thin Macro type Algae.

I hope this explains things.

 

[reefmutt]

Ok.. correct me if I’m wrong.. you have the desired algae growing on one screen and slime on another. Increasing photoperiod is supposed to convert slime growth into desired algea growth.
Based on this assumption, the desired algae is already happily growing on one screen under current conditions. If so, I think it is only a matter of time before it starts growing on the other screen (corraline or not)..
Based on the newness of the system after reset (and frags) and the possibility that increased photoperiod MAY alter current nutrient levels.. AND the fact that current nutrient numbers aren’t half bad and things seem stable- so far- I’m not really seeing the benefits of altering photoperiod at this time.
Why not give the new (ish) fuge time to work itself out? There is no need for this alteration right now, imo...
I know this is a thinly veiled way of saying ‘hands off!!!’ But at the same time, I also don’t really see the benefits of your actions at this particular moment.. the fuge is maturing at its own rate. Letting it go at its own pace is a more natural and gradual process that probably doesn’t need your intervention- right now- with everything so new...

 

[Wally.B]

Matt, OK......On the policy of Hands Off (Totally).....The Scrubber stays as is.
My thinking was get ahead on the Screen Replacement, before I start facing problems with N&P. (But the water changes, should handle things for the short term).

But time to top up ALK is SPS Tank may be sooner than anticipated.
ALK in SPS TANK=6.5 (Tested 4 times, since I didn't trust the drop)

I didn't expect this, since all that new Water Went in. (But Dosing is off in SPS Tank)
Appears the PH fix is really waking everything up. New Corals are Healthy, too.

What also caught me off guard is the ALK also dropped in Kithcen Tank (which I dose ALK). I wasn't thinking KIT Tank, but it's same airline, so I checked APEX PH Graph. Same thing, PH fixed.

So both TANK are dramatically improving.

I assume I should bring up SPS TANK ALK from 6.5 before it drops anymore?

 

[reefmutt]

Yes but the aim is not to raise alk right now, it is to maintain it at 6.5..
Where is Calcium?

 

[Wally.B]

While I wait for direction on ALK. If I should raise it up a bit from 6.5 to 7.0.

Here are results of Salinity testing with meters.

This is the SPS TANK (Salinity=1.0248)

MY Salinity was/is good. No need to Adjust Salinity (Glad I held off)

Summary of all Testers/Calibration Methods:

NEW SYBON Refractometer:
-> Calibrating with 0 Solution is not that accurate (I got 1.0265) ** OVER*
-> Calibrating with 35 Solution is VERY accurate (I got 1.0245)

In General:

-> The China (Plastic) Refractometer is GARBAGE (Sometime I got close, but testing again would change) ** Swing would be +- 0.02 **(This is what thew me off, since I didn't trust my old Rusty one)
-> Forget Basic Hydrometers ( Off by 0.04 )
-> Learned that using hydrometer properly makes a difference.
--------> Clean Refractometer before and after use.
--------> Fill measuring area with a large portion of water.
--------> Gently flip the Clear Flap-Window over the Water
--------> Let water sit on measuring area for at least 30 seconds

 

[reefmutt]

Wally, why are you anticipating issues with n and p, if your levels are stable now?
Have you added fish or changed feeding?

 

[Wally.B]

Yes but the aim is not to raise alk right now, it is to maintain it at 6.5..
Where is Calcium?

ok. No Alk changes. What if it continues to drop.
When do I consider a manual increase? at 6.0

I will check ALK and all other parameter too.

 

[Wally.B]

Wally, why are you anticipating issues with n and p, if your levels are stable now?
Have you added fish or changed feeding?

No fish added. Nothing changed.

But I kind of thought it P would start rising since I have no GFO and Scrubber is just waking up.

However, since I will be doing the twice a week or once a week (Water changes), that will keep N&P in check.

What do you recommend for Water Changes? (Topic Marin Pro of course)

 

[reefmutt]

ok. No Alk changes. What if it continues to drop.
When do I consider a manual increase? at 6.0

I will check ALK and all other parameter too.

By saying you need to maintain alk, I mean you need to start adding enough of the two-part to keep alk at or very close to 6.5.. doing nothing should see it drop, based on the test results from the last couple days...
That's why I asked about calcium.. technically, you should be adding both ca and alk.. but only if test results warrant it.
For now, try not to act on things you think MIGHT happen in the system. Let the system tell you what it needs. Do the tests, watch the trends and only act to correct any trends that are prolonged and extreme.
Add a small amount of two part today, test alk and ca tomorrow. If there is still a drop, add a bit more tomorrow and test the following day- and so on until you achieve a balance for ca and alk.
Under dosing is a better target than trying to over do it a bit.. eventually and quickly, I'm sure, you'll get to the proper daily requirement.

Didn't you decide to do the 2 x 5% wcs per week? Seems good to me...
As for n and p.. don't concern yourself to to much with shifts right now.. gradual movements in nutrients are not a concern.

 

[Wally.B]

By saying you need to maintain alk, I mean you need to start adding enough of the two-part to keep alk at or very close to 6.5.. doing nothing should see it drop, based on the test results from the last couple days...
That’s why I asked about calcium.. technically, you should be adding both ca and alk.. but only if test results warrant it.
For now, try not to act on things you think MIGHT happen in the system. Let the system tell you what it needs. Do the tests, watch the trends and only act to correct any trends that are prolonged and extreme.
Add a small amount of two part today, test alk and ca tomorrow. If there is still a drop, add a bit more tomorrow and test the following day- and so on until you achieve a balance for ca and alk.
Under dosing is a better target than trying to over do it a bit.. eventually and quickly, I’m sure, you’ll get to the proper daily requirement.

Didn’t you decide to do the 2 x 5% wcs per week? Seems good to me...
As for n and p.. don’t concern yourself to to much with shifts right now.. gradual movements in nutrients are not a concern.

Understood.
Keep ALK at 6.5.
At this point I don't know my ALK/CALC consumption rate, to start dosing (X ml/day).
That is why I am watching both ALK/CALC daily. (Mostly ALK).
To find a Consistent Trend.
Part of finding that Trend will be Impact to ALK/CALC with Water changes. (I haven't mixed up a bucket of NEW TMP Salt. Wonder what ALK will be at Proper Salinity which I know now)
Once I know (ALK/CALC decline if any), I will start dosing. Manually at first, then AUTO.

Yes, I did decide on 2 x 5 % WC, but if I remember correctly that was because I would be out to TMP Salt, and part of the Transition to IO Salt (slow introduction).
But, I now have a bucket of TMP Salt and I have a choice to do 5% twice a week (AutoChanger), or 10% once ever two weeks (BucketMethod).
Since AutoChanger is easier....
Plus...I sweeped both Sump and Tank from Detritus during Big Water change so no more bucket WC needed.

I'll go with 5% twice a week for next while (Push Button, Sump Method).
I just wanted your confirmation that it's still a good WC plan with T.M.P. Salt, since you originally proposed 10% once every two weeks. (I think you did)

 

[reefmutt]

Absolutely, the 5% auto method is still a good wc plan..

Which two part additive are you using?
I have not done a lot of two part dosing but I have used Seachem’s two part product and based on my experience with it, I would guess a 1ml dose of each part- each day - would be a good start..
I suggest you dose 1 ml of each today and test tomorrow and if there is not any movement in alk, dose the same amount tomorrow. And so on. If alk falls by tomorrow, dose 1.5 ml and then test the following day. Go in reverse if alk climbs at all..
Do not worry about the alk of the salt- don’t let it play in any calculations. 5% is not enough of a wc for the slightly higher alk of the salt to be a factor..

 

[reefmutt]

Correction! That amount was way too conservative and a miscalculation..
I think 5 ml per day would be a good start - for Seachem’s Fusion 1-2..
But I would assume they are all fairly similar.. perhaps I am wrong here.. anyone with experience using these two part solutions are welcome to chime in..
To be even more conservative, you could start at 3ml and see where the numbers for ca and alk go in 24 hours..

 

[Wally.B]

Correction! That amount was way too conservative and a miscalculation..
I think 5 ml per day would be a good start - for Seachem’s Fusion 1-2..
But I would assume they are all fairly similar.. perhaps I am wrong here.. anyone with experience using these two part solutions are welcome to chime in..
To be even more conservative, you could start at 3ml and see where the numbers for ca and alk go in 24 hours..

Perfect. I now get your advice 100%. I thought you meant let ALK keep dropping below 6.5. Which didn't sound right to me.

I will be (Haven't started) using ESV B-Ionic (Two Part. Alk and Calcium).

I think maybe you mis-understood my question, but I'm clear now with your last post.
What I was trying to say, is when I did BIG Water Change my ALK landed at 7.3. That is where I wanted to Maintain it.
But I never expected ALK to drop anytime soon.
So when it dropped today to 6.5 (from 7.3 two days ago), I thought to maintain ALK, I should add some Part A/B (both) Manually to restore ALK to at least 7.0.

And start dosing A/B to keep it at ALK=7.0 and CALC=450

They KEY IS MAINTAIN, and reduce/stop any ALK/CALC Swings (either up or down).

 

[reefmutt]

What I am saying is to dose JUST enough esv to ONLY maintain 6.5- the current value. NOT enough to raisit to 7..

-Just enough to maintain 6.5-

Once you have established the amount to maintain 6.5 and it has stayed there for a couple weeks, then you can consider raising to 7 over the course of another couple weeks.