My Tank Thread (Take3) ★Total AUTOMATION★ DIY Doser, Sump, AlgaeScrubber, WaterChnges

[reefmutt]

Hopefully things will continue in this direction.
It’s my experience, however, that the only thing that happens rapidly in a reef is disaster.
All the good stuff takes weeks and weeks.
I’ve also seen that new, healthy frags look good for several days even in bad water, before they start to decline.. unless they are put in like acid or something...
Not trying to rain on the parade or anything, just trying to keep a level head, here.
Everything needs several days (at least) before we can see any real results...
Digi does look a bit better...

 

[Wally.B]

Matt, You don't have to preach to the choir. I'm an expert on Disasters, Accidents and Beautiful Frag Decline.

I've bought Frags for the last 3 years. Always nice on day 1,2,3.
Then something would wear them down to Nothing.
Some instantly, some quick ,others slow and painfully.

But I'll take anything in the direction of positive. One day at time.
For next few weeks, months, years.

Hoping I've kicked all those Past Gremlins out of the tank, and no others are Lurking for the Future.

I can't be overly optimistic yet. Cautious and on Guard is ok.
Pessimistic isn't just me.

One more optimistic comparison (Past/Present): (That Sunset I bought yesterday. Exact same one from Fragbox, same colony. Last 2 died within a week. Never Showed PE from Start. The one I got yesterday is waving it's Polyps. We'll see in a few days, it didn't take long last time to show BAD)

If it survives past tomorrow, I'll Frag it into 4 piece and .....(just kidding)

 

[reefmutt]

Ha!
Looking for pe tomorrow!

 

[sensei]

this is good news :thumbsup:

 

[Wally.B]

Need help from Anyone with a Refractometer. Run a simple test.


If your Refractometer is calibrated. Put a few drops of RO water. Does it read 0ppt?
I need to know that.

Here is why.

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I went to LFS to buy a new Salinity Calibration Solution.
But I brought my bottle of Solution.

When I tested my Solution on their Calibrated Refractometer is was dead on 35ppt.
So my 35ppt Calibration solution is good.

My original High Quality Refractometer after 17 years went bad since the calibration screen Rusted Shut.
I can twist it with Pliers but it's doesn't stay accurate.

I got one of the Plastic China cheap one thinking it would be ok. Couple of months ago. But it drive me nuts with inconstant Calibration/Test. OR MAYBE NOT.

So I bought a new Quality Refractometer and didn't buy the solution.
But I'm finding out one thing.

-> One way is to Calibrate with Pure Water at 0.0ppt then do tests
-> Another Way is to Calibrate with Solution like 35 ppt.

I understand the Solution has a temp calibration usually 25 degree C.
I understand that the Refractometers can be Auto Temp Compesation.

BUT WHAT I CAN'T GET IS:

-> If I calibrate using 35ppt, I don't get 0ppt using 0ppt Solution
-> If I calibrate using 0ppt solution, I don't get 35ppt read off 35ppt solution.

I figure it's like a PH probe calibration. You should calibrate using Soution closer to the Level you measure like 7,10 Since Tanks are around 7-8.

Can anyone explain this.
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If I calibrate using 35ppt solution my TANK is 1.024 and bit (So Great!!)

 

[reefmutt]

Trust the calibration solution.
Using ro water is not as accurate as the calibration solition.

 

[sensei]

Need help from Anyone with a Refractometer. Run a simple test.


BUT WHAT I CAN'T GET IS:

-> If I calibrate using 35ppt, I don't get 0ppt using 0ppt Solution
-> If I calibrate using 0ppt solution, I don't get 35ppt read off 35ppt solution.

Can anyone explain this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I calibrate using 35ppt solution my TANK is 1.024 and bit (So Great!!)

Wally,
calibration solution is good for testing samples that somewhat near in the range of the calibrating solution. When you get far, the analitical error is much greater.
so a 35ppt calibration solution is much more accurate for teh slainity of salt water becuase it is very near to 35ppt.
0 es very far from 35ppt that is whay you do not get 0 in refractometer when testing a solution that is 0.

if you where testing a solution that is 5 ppt then a calibration solution of 0 would be more accurate than the 35ppt calibrating solution.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Wally.B]

Wally,
calibration solution is good for testing samples that somewhat near in the range of the calibrating solution. When you get far, the analitical error is much greater.
so a 35ppt calibration solution is much more accurate for teh slainity of salt water becuase it is very near to 35ppt.
0 es very far from 35ppt that is whay you do not get 0 in refractometer when testing a solution that is 0.

if you where testing a solution that is 5 ppt then a calibration solution of 0 would be more accurate than the 35ppt calibrating solution.

I hope this makes sense.

That makes sense, and that is what I thought, and bought 35ppt solution years ago.
That is why I said you should use 7,10 Solution to Calibrate a PH Probe, and not 4,10 since you tank will be around 7-8.

But when I look at the Refractometer I just bought (SYBON For Aqurium Use), it says the following:

Accuracy= +/- 1ppt

AND!!!!

It comes with a bottle of Calibration solution of "0 ppt" (STUPID Way to Sell a Salinity Meter for Reef Tanks)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND I Figured it out now.......(I tested again)

WITH NEW REFRACTOMETR:
If I Calibrate using the provided "0 ppt" solution, the 35 ppt solution is off by Exactly 1ppt.
If I Calibrate using the 35 ppt solution, and RO water test is off from Zero by 1 ppt.

I was originally using 35ppt Calibration to make Water. but I stopped trusting it.
I started doing 0ppt calibration with RO water. (Since Cheap China Unit came with those instructions, "USE PURE WATER and set to 0ppt" )

Thus my SPS Tank is 1.024 (When I thought I was making 1.025 Water)

--> My OLD Broken meter was the first problem. (Screw Rusted, and wiggly, so inconsistent)
--> But it was that Cheap Plastic China Reflectometer that threw me off even more, it's inconsistent, and worse than "+/- 1 ppt" accuracy. (Probably +/- 2ppt)
--> Then my confidence Dropped even more, when I compare using my old Hydrometers (was off by 4)

It's SOLVED NOW. Glad I got the Decent Refractometer, and Understand to use 33ppt Calibration Solution (I trust old bottle of 35ppt).

I just have to Raise Salinity by 0.001 (That is small and easy to do). And no worries that I shocked SPS by 1.023 Water.
** NO DAMAGE DONE (Tomorrow PE will Double )**

And the future of the NEW 777 SPS's is much STABLE!! (With proper...Lighting, Temp, Flow, PH, Water Chemistry, & Temp). I have HIGH Confidence now.

THE BAD NEWS IS......
I didn't come home with Just the Refractometer from the Canada Corals Store.

A "Pillow Mint Carolianiana Frag" somehow fell into the Shopping bag

 

[Wally.B]

TANK PH (Oxygen Line to Skimmer) Fix (May Save Forest Fire Digi) Just In Time

I have a gut feeling. Let's hope this is true.
What I saw (From Corals) before I did the Tank Water Reset, was an Early Sneak Peak of the PH improvement I did a couple days earlier (fixing the Airline Rupture).

Look at what Adding more Oxygen (just outside air) to Skimmer did to my Tank PH.

I'll bet that Corals will continue to improve. Even the damaged ones that are savable (from the LOW PH/rollercoaster Damage)

And from the past when I first hooked up the Air-Line, PH will continue to improve as the system get stable (from Saturation/Absorption).

The Water Reset is an Extra Bonus, and will certainly help.

But before I found the AirLine Rupture, I was looking to improve Oxygen another Way to Raise my PH. With the Soda Lime.
I called places, that sell the stuff. They said only for Doctors, and medical facilities.
I look into Scuba Dive Shops (Since Soda Lime) is used for rebreathers, but it comes in Large Quanties (Expensive)
And no "Two Little Fishies CDX Product" available here in Canadian Stores Yet.

I contacted Canada Corals, and shared my past airline success.
Rob the owner of Canada Corals believed this product could be beneficial, so ordered some for the Store and for me.

For passing on this Product information, that may be beneficial for his other customers (People that can't run a airline to skimmer),
Rob left me this as a Gift when I visited the Store today.

Rob believed in me before I even had Today's Forest Fire results to share, since the concept was proven in past with my Airline which (many others do).

Canada Corals now carries it in Stock.

I won't be using the CDX for the SPS Tank since things are going so well. NO TOUCH eh?

But I will experiment in my Frag Tank since running Airline won't be so easy.

->This stuff may even provide more Oxygen than my Airline, and improve PH better. (Why has AquaForest Made a CO2 Canister for Soda Lime). It is one of their Success Secrets.
-> (NO chemicals to Raise PH)

-> Maybe I'll just a partial mix with Airline Air (to extend Soda Lime Life).
-> Maybe Automate to turn CO2 Scubber on to offset the PH Low cycle, and Flatten the PH swing.
-> I'll find out, and document results.

Onward....

 

[Wally.B]

Ha!
Looking for pe tomorrow!

Polyps. Polyps. POLYPS. POLYPS Everywhere! (Like Never Before)

Matt, for you and 75% of the SPS Hobbyists that is the Norm.

But for me this is new. Especially for Millies which have never had PE for me beyond day 1.

After 3 years, and especially last 4 months since I started "TAKE 3" on this SPS TANK it's been nothing but trouble with my SPS. It's a fact, and all documented.

So I've been pre-conditioned to Expect Failure, and nothing has change yet. I still expect failure (eventually). But I think I've learned a lot to reduce the chances.

TINKERING has always been my Downfall, but if anyone was in my position, they would probably do the same. (Frags dying, one after another)
I'm not out the woods. Not even close.

I don't tinker with my Kitchen Tank, since nothing to fix. I used to but stopped.

If all 13 new FRAGS start failing together, I'll TINKER Again.
But if they don't then no need to touch anything, since I'd rather just enjoy looking at Stupid, Beautiful Polys, and take endless pictures of their progress.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Over the last 3 months, every Frag I purchased, has plug encrusting reverse.

If I start seeing Encrusting, I know I am the edge of the Forest.
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I HAVE NO REGRETS for all the Failures.
Since they have taught me so much.

I always said, I need to make every mistake with Frags, so that when I have Colonies that I don't make same mistakes.
Till now it's been pure SPS Survival, beyond 1-4 weeks.
If I make it past next 3 months, I'll face different Challenges.

If thing continue well for SPS Survival, I know next will come things like Browning, Coloration, etc
And new kind of Tinkering will start.

I actually hope for a new Problem (Years from now). Space in my tank .

 

[Wally.B]

I am seriously considering One more Bucket to T.M.P. Salt.

Just to avoid any other balancing work and Frag Acclimatization issues.

Certainly can't hurt.

 

[reefmutt]

You’re right, another bucket of tm pro can’t hurt..
Looking for polyps tomorrow!
Wally, just to let you know, I walk downstairs EVERY SINGLE DAY with trepidation, expecting total disaster in my tank.

 

[Wally.B]

You’re right, another bucket of tm pro can’t hurt..

I'm about to place an order for TMP Salt.
I have enough "Made Water" to last me a week or two (WC's and Salinity Adjustment), but then I'm out.

Wally, just to let you know, I walk downstairs EVERY SINGLE DAY with trepidation, expecting total disaster in my tank.

I can imagine. You have So Much progress at risk with your Colonies that you have worked so hard to get to such Mind Boggling, Amazing Conditions.

The little spec of Beauty I'm seeing now is "to me" stunning.

The pictures of your SPS are out of this world....
So I simply can't picture in my mind how "Electric" looking you tank must look like in person.

Thanks for all your support so far.
It's good to have a "Master" like you cheering me on.

 

[om6acw]

I believe refractometers (see true type) are suppose to be calibrated with 0ppm solution and 35ppm solution is there just to see how precise your refractometer is at 35ppm, you shouldn't be making any adjustments to it after 0ppm calibration instead you have to make correction chart with error value you read from it if it was different then 35 and then apply it to your other measurements.
With that said it doesn't matter what your refractometer really reads as long as you know your correction for it. If there is just 1ppm difference it can be caused by user error, check if diffuser is evenly pressed against the glass, sometimes pins in the joint get rusty and it prevents it from setting in correct position .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[om6acw]

Forgot to mention that it's good idea to have at least 3 ways to measure your salinity .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wally.B]

I believe refractometers (see true type) are suppose to be calibrated with 0ppm solution and 35ppm solution is there just to see how precise your refractometer is at 35ppm, you shouldn’t be making any adjustments to it after 0ppm calibration instead you have to make correction chart with error value you read from it if it was different then 35 and then apply it to your other measurements.
With that said it doesn’t matter what your refractometer really reads as long as you know your correction for it. If there is just 1ppm difference it can be caused by user error, check if diffuser is evenly pressed against the glass, sometimes pins in the joint get rusty and it prevents it from setting in correct position .



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. Good tips, explanation of why the Refractometer came with 0ppm (Ultra Pure Calibration Solution)
The Refractometer is Brand new. So it's not stuck or rusty like my old one was.
New one reading shows my offset is 1ppm from 35ppm Calibration Solution, after calibrating it using 0ppt solution (that came with the Refractometer). And that is what the error range is on the spec +/- 1ppm.

I do have my Cheapo Refractometer, and between the two....

I know very closely what my Salinity is. Mixing Salt or Having DT at 1ppm isn't that bad.
NOT SURE WHICH WAY IS BETTER (1.0234 or 1.026, from the Target of 1.025)

Forget the 2 Hydrometer's they are totally off.

 

[Wally.B]

Salinity Calibration (Accuracy) Debate TO BE SOLVED.

I picked up the Tropic Marin Salt and Something Else From Tropic Marin.

I want only the best Chance for These Frags.
It's my last Stab at SPS.

This will ensure I get DT Salinity Correct. No Guesses.

Plus I'll solve which method is best for Calibration & Accuracy.

Thanks to Rob at Canada Corals. He listened to my concerns and challenges (with Salinity), and lent me his Tropic Marin High Precision Hydrometer.


More Details to come once I get the Tests done.

STAY TUNED.

 

[sensei]

Wally,
do you have an ORP probe conected to the apex?
I am just curious if ORP droped significnatly when you had the oxigen line problem in the skimmer

 

[Wally.B]

Sorry. No ORP.

 

[James404]

I've started using the Milwaukee digital refractometer and have been really impressed. I always had accuracy problems with the regular type, and the milwaukee makes things easy peasy. It's pricey but might be worth looking into.