My wallet burning UPS

tonggao

New member
After getting sick of my tiny 500VA UPS which can only drive one power head, and worrying that power might go out while I am not home (I do have another deep cycle battery/charger/inverter setup and a generator, which are not much use unless I plug things in manually), I decided to get a beefier UPS. Scared away by new heavy duty UPS's prices, I turned onto craiglist. I thought it was my lucky day when I saw an ad for a "BRAND NEW" APC su3000net UPS for only $250 (Well, I said "only" since the new ones can easily go above $1k). When I got there, it did not look like brand new, but still looked clean. The guy promised me that it was used for less than 60 days. Being a trusting guy, I bought it because I do not want to worry about it anymore. Well, after got back home, I found it did not work at all. Don't wanting to have the bad taste of bringing it back to the guy and dealing with him, I pulled everything apart, and found the batteries are pretty dead (btw, I figured out after coming home that it has to be used for a lot more than 60 days since this model was discontinued quite a while back). Really hating to deal with the sleazy guy who sold me the unit, I decide to gamble on it by assuming only the batteries are bad and turn it into something I will be happy with. Given the four APC small replacement batteris are more than $200 plus shipping, I went to Costco and bought 4 of their largest deep cycle batteries for $320 :(, and spent another $25 in home depot for connectors and connecting wires. Then I found the external battery connector from APC cost $90, just for two stupid connectors and a piece of wire :mad2: . Instead of getting ripped, I used my dremal tool on the connector of one of the APC dead battery, and vola, it fits perfectly after some mod. I also pulled the two 100A fuses from the dead batteries and put them on the new batteries. So after $595 and many hours of lost sleep, here is my new UPS that I will be proud of :). The only remaining thing to do is to build a cover for the setup so nobody in the house risk been electrified.

Btw, each battery is rated for 115AH, so the 4 batteries should give me 4*114*12 = 5520VAH. I will use it to drive three 7W Tunze 6045, one 130w Pan World return pump, and a couple of 10W fans. Assuming the UPS will consume 50W by itself, I should have a run time about 5520/(21+130+20+50) = 25 hours. This way, I even do not need to fire up my generator if the outage is less than 25 hours, which is the case most of the time :). If I only use it on the three Tunzes, it should last 5520/(21 + 50) = 78 hours!

It costed a lot more than what I planned for, but at least I can sleep without nightmares about power outage anymore.

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Sweet job. Yeah I agree sometimes people on craigs list lie and we get owned with a piece of junk that might not work, costing us more time. but props to you for making it work.
 
If I was you, I would bring the unit back and ask for $ back. If he doesn't give you $ back, call the cop.
 
Thanks happyface!

Phong, I am mostly in this hobby for fun, and dealing with this kind of people and events really takes a lot of fun out of it. I already have to play nasty at work a lot of times, and I really do not want to do it more outside of work if I can help it. That's why I decide to spend my energy on making it work (did I tell you that I actually enjoyed working on this project even though my wallet didn't? :)) instead of dealing with the guy (which is very unpleasent to me).
 
Thanks Norman. Btw, what do you mean by "you teh l33t hax0r" ? :D

Edited: I just goggled "l33t hax0r". While I am really not l33t hax0r, but I do enjoy doing similiar things. What can I say, a geek after all :D.
 
Few things....

First of all nice job glad to see there is someone else out there with enough creativity to make something work and not give up....

Second in regards to that PARTICULAR MODEL of APC UPS you need be aware that it has been know to catch fire! I used to handle nothing but UPS's for a big Corp and I have dealt with all APC models from the little guys all the way up to the 480v Silcons. I have had at least 8 of the 3000's smoke and 2 catch fire (fortunately nothing combustible around to do any further damage) I am not trying to scare you or suggest getting rid of it but please at minimum make sure there is nothing combustible next to or on top of the unit.

Also since those appear as flooded cell batteries remember that during charging they do emit hydrogen gas which in a high volume is explosive; just make sure that it is in a well ventilated area and not in a closet or something where gasses can collect not to mention the vapor is acidic and over time can corrode metal finishes. Keep this in mind and it will be fine... Make sure you check the water level in the batteries ever couple of months and add DISTILLED water if necessary this will keep the batteries in good maintenance and last a long time.

Last note the charger that is built into the APC is not designed for huge charge rates so it may take it a while to recharge the batteries I would suggest every six months to run the batteries down to 50% say 11 volts and recharge them with a standard battery charger this will make sure they are being worked and get any sulfurization off of the plates again just something that will help them live a long life.

You may already know all of this but for anyone reading it gives some useful information that not all people understand how dangerous 12vdc batteries can be in all regards they contain sulfuric acid, lead and when shorted can turn a full sized wrench into a red hot molten spatter of metal and in all cases remove keys and jewelry I watched my friend weld his wedding ring to his finger and yes it was orange when it happened....
 
MC lighting, thanks a lot for all the information, and I am sure they are very useful for others as well.

Too bad I am going to be stuck with this particular model for a while. Did the 3000's that you saw smoking/firing happened when they were drawing battery power during a outage? If yes, could that be due to the heat buildup in the batteries in the closed compartment? All my batteries are outside now.

I will remember to check/top off water level every few month. I did use an external charger to charge the batteries before hooking them up to the UPS, and it is a great suggestion that I should do this every few months.

Another thing to pay attention for others (does not apply to my setup since I put the 4 batteries in series to get 48V) is if you ever put batteries in parallel, make sure you put fuse for each individual battery. If any of the battery has shorted plated, it will short other batteries in parallel, and cause some really bad things.
 
no the UPS's burned under normal operating conditions in fact one had nothing plugged into it so no overload conidtion either... Yes your right about fusing the interconnects on the battery packs like I stated a lot of people do not understand the current capability that a 12vdc battery can create... one other thing I forgott to metnion is that your math is incorrect for your load and run times; when you parralell a battery you gain amp hours when you series a battery you gain voltage but not amp/hours so in your case you have a battery pack at 48vdc at 115 am/hrs... and remeber it is not a good idea to run lead acid batteries below 50% often as it will considerbaly shorten the life of them, again these are things most people do not know but you learn when you work with them day in and day out.

So for sake of argument if you have a 200 watt load then you are good for the following 200w/48v = 4.16adc 115ah/2 (discharge %/4.16adc = 13.82 hours now this is a case where you are doing the right thing and not draining the batteries down to empty but in the event you do you could squeeze out probably 26 hours or more but I would not recomend doing that too often...
 
Anyone know if the smaller Smart-ups1000 have the same fire problem? I was thinking about doing the same thing with the marine battery. Do you need 24v or 48v? Are the marine battery seal cells?
Tong next time I down your way would like to checkout the modification you did with the unit.
 
I don't ever remeber having any trouble with the 1000's and unfortunatly the 3000 problem APC would never admit to I believe the 1000's run at 24vdc but check with a voltmeter as it has been a few years since I have messed with any of the little guys... Just make sure you fuse the battery pack and use wire that is correctly sized for the max curretn you will pull and you should be fine; again as stated above though you may end up with some charging problems downt he road as that model is not really meant for such a big battery pack but you can see how it does just watch your charging voltage...
 
Thanks again MC lighting!

Our computations probably come out to give the same hours. I was computing VAH(voltage*amp*hour), and you were computing AH(amp*hour).

On draining the battery, I thought deep cycled batteries are designed to handle almost complete drain by having thick lead plates. But I am pretty new to the batteries, and could be way off here.
 
no you are right to some degree in that they do tolerate a much more abusive enviroment than a standard cranking battery however even these the manufactures recomend not dragging them down so low it will decrease the life of the battery significantly over time if you take care to treat them well you can easily get 5+ years out of them I have batteries that are 10+ years old that still work just fine because I haev kept them up and do not abuse them unless absolutly necessary (emergency situation)
 
Wayland, you are welcome to check it out next time when you are here. Does this mean another trade in the work? :) The fire engine monti and watermelon sounds really good :D. I just need to find something that you are interested in.
 
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