N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[daveonbass]

I still don't feel my point was fully put to rest, but I think many of the arguments are simply people splitting hairs. So I digress.

but as a new question:

if I put these on my 37g tank, which easily has 160ppm no3, and NO SKIMMER, what should happen?

wouldn't it stand to reason that the pellets would cause a bacterial bloom due to no skimmer removing the bacteria?

I'm very tempted to attempt this because if love to see the pellets do something other than tumble in clear water in a reactor. Or would this still not be enough pellets to tackle the job? I really don't think I have too many.

 

[ChuckG]

Dave.. manufacturer states that skimming is necessary and to export the bacteria cultured by the pellets. Secondarily the skimmer counters the tendency for the bacterial process to deprive your livestock of oxygen and drive down the PH.

Skimming may not be the only way to get the job done, but if you don't export the carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus molecules accumulated by the bacteria y removing them, these molecules will just be released back into the aquarium as the bacteria decays. I imagine there is a point where the bacterial colony feeds on its own die off.. but this also creates a situation where undesirable organisms can pick up these free C, N, and P molecules and start to bloom.

DJ.. I bet those sponges are happy.

 

[C-21 USAF]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I've been using these since 1 Jun and last week I accidentaly left my skimmer off overnight and since my reactor is simply "in-line" with my skimmer supply pump, my pellets were w/o flow for about 18 hours.:eek2:

Not sure whats going on in there, but everything "seems" okay.

I had read in this thread that people were concerned about power outages with these things.

 

[tmz]

Stagnant water with bacteria food in it will lead to anoxia. Bacteria will use all the oxygen and nitrate. Then sulfur reducing bacteria emerge and use the SO4(sulfate) for oxygen creating hydrogen sulfide , a toxic gas ,as a by product. It is commonly called sewer gas and has a very strong odor.

 

[ari5736]

My last 5ppm of nitrate is not going away. Bacteria slime is gone, should I add more pellets?

 

[drummereef]

Stagnant water with bacteria food in it will lead to anoxia. Bacteria will use all the oxygen and nitrate. Then sulfur reducing bacteria emerge and use the SO4(sulfate) for oxygen creating hydrogen sulfide , a toxic gas ,as a by product. It is commonly called sewer gas and has a very strong odor.

Tom - In case of a power outage and the reactor does go anoxic, what should one do before turning the reactor back on-line? Are there any safety precautions one should take as to not allow the hydrogen sulfide gas into the aquarium? Such as flush the reactor or rinse the pellets?

 

[daveonbass]

chuck: that's what I was hopeing would happen. I want to know if it doesn't produce a bacteria bloom, then what? Wouldn't that mean that my pellets still don't work, or would it just mean that something else is missing now? I was thinking of trying it on the 37g to see if I could induce the bloom. It's just rock and algae in there. But my big worry is that it will do nothing, and then once again I'm left with pellets that are not active. :/

 

[Mike de Leon]

Hi guys,

I have been doing the pellets now for two months. I have been getting this growth on the LR that seems to be hair algae but white in color and about 1 cm tall. Not sure what it is. I also had cyano that eventually disappeared.
my skimmer almost completely stopped skimming and most of the corals have a lighter color.
I have also lost a couple due to bleaching. I have not tested for both nitrate and phosphate either as I do not trust my Salifert.

Any thoughts on why the corals are lighter? thanks in advance.

 

[bluereefs]

Weird, white hair growth can be bacteria strings, do you have picture of them? I had one bacterial bloom where big part of bacteria was present in aquarium as a bacterial strings, my corals did not like them either. Will try to find a picture of those strings. Weird is because my skimmer worked like a maschine, much stronger skimming then usual, dont know why your skimmer stop working.

If those strings are bacteria they probably remove nutrients what will usually corals use for their food so your corals can be starved and bleached.

I stoped bio pellets and feed the corals with blenderized food, it help in my situation.

Maybe someone else have better explanation/advice?

 

[jlinzmaier]

More info on the difference among pellet brands

More info on the difference among pellet brands

I inquired further with premium aquatics asking for more definitive info on identifying which is the original and if there are really only two or three different types of pellets that are being repackaged and sold by different companies.

An E-mail back from Jeremy at premium aquatics who was just at MACCNA.

Hi Jeremy,

The NP biopellets at the show were the exact same pellets that Vertex and NPx is also selling. These pellets are actually made for a different industry altogether, and not actually made for aquarium use.

Jeremy Brower
Premium Aquatics, Inc.
www.premiumaquatics.com
6050 E. Hanna Ave. #4
Indianapolis, IN 46203
317-895-9005
317-895-9395 fax

Then a follow up e-mail from him.

Hi Jeremy,

Check out the photo in this thread of the different pellets available.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1874724&highlight=pellets

I think you will find a lot of similarities. Another thing we have to keep in mind here is that this technology has nothing to do wtih the marine aquaria industry. It was completely borrowed from the plastics industry, and just so happens to have a useful benefit to us. Financially, it just wouldn't make sense for an aquarium manufacturer to have their own resins produced specific for our industry, which is why you see so many similarities in the different "brands" out there.

Jeremy Brower
Premium Aquatics, Inc.
www.premiumaquatics.com
6050 E. Hanna Ave. #4
Indianapolis, IN 46203
317-895-9005
317-895-9395 fax

Sounds like somebody is making lots of $$ packaging these pellets and selling them in the aquarium industry when they are already being manufactured and in use for a different purpose all together.

Now the question is "How to find the original source?" You could probably buy a five gallon pail for what some people have paid for a liter of them. Buying these in bulk from the "true" manufacturer and selling them at bulk cost sounds just like something the guys at Bulk Reef Supply would be best at. I'll check in with Brandon or Ryan and see what they know about these pellets.

Jeremy

 

[TheFishMan65]

If I remember all my information correctly. I think Cliff found them for WAMAS. They are a PLA plastic sold as polymorph. Randy once said that, friendly plastic, and shape lock are all pretty much the same. I just did a group buy (13kg total) and got a kilogram (aobut 1.25 liters) for $31. Don't know if these are actually what any of the reef companies are selling, and have not got them on line yet to say that they work. Howver, an earlier group did a buy and appears to be having good results.

 

[Mike de Leon]

Weird, white hair growth can be bacteria strings, do you have picture of them? I had one bacterial bloom where big part of bacteria was present in aquarium as a bacterial strings, my corals did not like them either. Will try to find a picture of those strings. Weird is because my skimmer worked like a maschine, much stronger skimming then usual, dont know why your skimmer stop working.

If those strings are bacteria they probably remove nutrients what will usually corals use for their food so your corals can be starved and bleached.

I stoped bio pellets and feed the corals with blenderized food, it help in my situation.

Maybe someone else have better explanation/advice?

Thank you. How often do you folks do water changes? I will try and reduce mine to once every two weeks from once a week. I did 10 prcnt weekly. Hopefully i will increase the nutrients that way. I have started feeding the corals now. Again, how often?

 

[daveonbass]

I just got off the phone with SWC and we have decided to try and slow the flow down for a while. Hopefully that will make a difference. The guy I talked to said that a local reefer had the same issue I'm having and that slowing it down more made the difference. So we will see. He also mentioned that I may need to take the top off, which I can't, and that also it may be not working due to micro bubbles in the reactor. And we both agreed that those two statements seem contradictory...but he says it's what they have noticed. Weird huh? Wish me luck.

 

[tahiriqbal]

found some info on these Polymorph

http://www.rapidonline.com/netalogue/specs/87-0090e.pdf

If they are same as NP Bioballs then they can be obtained at much cheaper price...

They look remarkably smiler to NP Biopellets just a different colour...Flebay item number 390228010779 Yes, No, any comments?

 

[bluereefs]

Mike de Leon , here is my bacterial strings during one bacterial bloom, are they look similar to white hair growth what you have?

Here is reactor and skimmer picture from that bloom

I disconect bp reactor and feed heavy, few times a days, loots of blenderized crab meat, dump aprox 4 pounds in 30 days in 3 aquariums, this aquarium receive aprox 1 pound of blenderized foood in 30 days.

 

[jlinzmaier]

Holy crap Bluereefs!!! If you can feed a pound of food a month and maintain a healthy aquarium you are doing something right!! Granted a lot of that weight is moisture but even so that is a massive amount of food you're feeding. A small can of new life spectrum and a couple packs of brine shrimp and mysis shrimp lasts me over a year and I have very fat and healthy fish as well as very healthy and well nourished corals.

Jeremy

 

[jlinzmaier]

I don't know if this spectacular thread was linked to in this thread yet or not but it provides a generous amount of information on what we are likley using as "biopellets". This answers a lot of my questions about what the pellets (likley) are and what industry they are used in (then repackaged and sold to reef keepers for mucho $$$$).

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1883610

The bottom line may be the cost of the biopolymers and how easily we can get them. As demand increases for these biopolymers, the price will most likely drop. Currently they are expensive to produce and need to be shipped in from foreign countries like China which drives the costs up.

Buying in bulk and shipping in bulk would allow a company to sell them at a lower cost. Bulk Reef Supply comes to mind again. I'll post what response I get from them as I've already inquired.

There have been studies in waste water where providing additional acetate has greatly benefited the brake down of the polymers which incorporate starch in the molecule.

This may be a part of the reason why people like tntneon have had more success after the use of some vinegar dosing.

Jeremy

 

[bluereefs]

Holy crap Bluereefs!!! If you can feed a pound of food a month and maintain a healthy aquarium you are doing something right!! Granted a lot of that weight is moisture but even so that is a massive amount of food you're feeding. A small can of new life spectrum and a couple packs of brine shrimp and mysis shrimp lasts me over a year and I have very fat and healthy fish as well as very healthy and well nourished corals.

Jeremy

lol, I overreacting with food but can stoping, fishes/corals like my diy food, usually dry food cans last aprox month for me, comercial froozen food also very short, I spent all comercial food and start to made my own diy food, live in the island in Adriatic sea and my father in law is fishermen so I have supply of fresh caught sea animals, recently I find that crabs are super, everybody like them, best are femalle crab loaded with eggs. here is small percentage of my diy food, no water are aded, only what is in crabs so my diy food are highly concetrated

Regular feeding are aprox 2-3 cubs daily, in case of bleaching due to bacterial bloom I use much more until the animals recover, there is few drawback of this feeding, first aiptasia like my food very much and multiply fast, second my fishes do not do nothing except folowing me all day acroos the aquarium, very anoying lol

I should buy comercial food again and cut so much feeding.

 

[bluereefs]

Regarding PHA sources, somewhere in the begining of this thread jptkentloster mentiones Mirel , http://www.mirelplastics.com/discover/default.aspx?ID=1560, http://www.mirelplastics.com/discover/default.aspx?ID=1460 , can not remember did he specifies that he do not use Mirel or use Mirel products for his bio pellets.

some info : http://www.mirelplastics.com/environmental/default.aspx?ID=673#biodegradable

 

[DJREEF]

Hell, I was thinking about ordering a box of these http://biodegradablestore.com/pp/Utensils/corn_hw/pp_corn_plastic_forks_C_P.html
and throwing them in the sump up stream from the skimmers. Since I'm running passive anyway (no reactor) I couldn't see how it would hurt, and it would be a helluva lot cheaper per lb than BP's.

DJ