N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)
- Thread starter tntneon
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I get your drift I believe... the point to emphasize is equilibrium although individual factors may differ from case to case.
Is it then fair to say that surface exchange would favour CO2 reduction in Darksephiroth's aquarium having a circumstance of low pH (7.7 if I recall correctly); unless... there is even more CO2 in the respective ambient environment...?
Yes, to all those points.
Is it then fair to say that surface exchange would favour CO2 reduction in Darksephiroth's aquarium having a circumstance of low pH (7.7 if I recall correctly); unless... there is even more CO2 in the respective ambient environment...?
Yes, to all those points.
Thanks Randy!! I'll have to return to this exchange from time to time to help refresh my understanding with your clarifications...! It can sometimes be a little tricky grasping all of these dynamics in the right order of thinking....
The mud between my ears is a heck of a lot lighter now...
Thanks for adding a little more perspective to our general understanding!! :beer:
The mud between my ears is a heck of a lot lighter now...
Thanks for adding a little more perspective to our general understanding!! :beer:
purge43
New member
ph is a factor with my particular case with using the brs bio pellets. I do not use kalk but rely strictly on brs two part. My ph was normally 8.1-8.3 lights on cycle and as low as 7.8 ( a few times 7.7)in the dark cycle. About three or four days into the start of the pellets my ph stabalized at 8.3-8.4 night and day, for a few days. My reactor is a home made device which dumps the effluent water into my sump from a heigth of about one foot. After about a week my ph slowly climbed to 8.9 during the end of the light cycle and down to 8.6 during the dark cycle. Now after about two weeks the ph is gradually coming down about a tenth of a point a day. No other changes were made and testing is done exactly the same.
DarkSephiroth
New member
I always thought O2/CO2 are on a scale like CA/ALK. The more CA you have, the lower the ALK is. So having more CO2 will reduce O2. So by increasing O2 level it will lower CO2?
At this point, from reading everyone post, im going to assumed that this theory is wrong then?
At this point, from reading everyone post, im going to assumed that this theory is wrong then?
With regard to Ca, Mag, pH - Randy summarized the relationship back in June 2006 RK magazine: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/index.php
I think the point is that there are lots of different factors that effect the CO2/O2 relationship in an aquarium, if you're focusing on gas exchange, the composition of your ambient environment also plays a role. I'm sure there is a good summation out there somewhere...
SJ
DarkSephiroth
New member
Yea i don't know why this tank is having a hard time keeping PH at 8.3 ish. My last tank had no problem with it, i checked it at night, noon, day and its hovering at 8.2-8.4 all the time.
I always thought O2/CO2 are on a scale like CA/ALK. The more CA you have, the lower the ALK is. So having more CO2 will reduce O2. So by increasing O2 level it will lower CO2?
At this point, from reading everyone post, im going to assumed that this theory is wrong then?
That is correct that it is wrong. They do not impact one another. The reason they sometimes move in opposite directions is that respiration uses O2 and produces CO2, and photosynthesis uses CO2 and produces O2.
But both can be high (like during the day in a highly photosynthesizing aquarium in a home with elevated air CO2 levels) and both can be low (like at night in a tank using limewater with normal home air CO2 levels), or one up and the other down.
At this point, from reading everyone post, im going to assumed that this theory is wrong then?
That is correct that it is wrong. They do not impact one another. The reason they sometimes move in opposite directions is that respiration uses O2 and produces CO2, and photosynthesis uses CO2 and produces O2.
But both can be high (like during the day in a highly photosynthesizing aquarium in a home with elevated air CO2 levels) and both can be low (like at night in a tank using limewater with normal home air CO2 levels), or one up and the other down.
Summation...
Summation...
I really believe that the low pH is a direct consequence of carbon dosing... your pellets are respirating. The more bacteria you develop, the more respiration you have in your system. During respiration; available O2 is used up, and the amount of CO2 increases. This leads to lowered pH. Surface agitation will help to liberate some of that CO2 from your aquarium, provided you don't already have an abundance of CO2 in your ambient air (lots of occupants; small space; air-tight house/building; etc could lead to this abundance of CO2).
I think that's the take away from this last page or two of discussion.... you have low pH because your tank has high CO2; because you are feeding/proliferating bacteria through carbon dosing. Solution invovles making use of (macro algae); or getting rid of (gas exchange) excess CO2.
Regards,
Sheldon
Summation...
I really believe that the low pH is a direct consequence of carbon dosing... your pellets are respirating. The more bacteria you develop, the more respiration you have in your system. During respiration; available O2 is used up, and the amount of CO2 increases. This leads to lowered pH. Surface agitation will help to liberate some of that CO2 from your aquarium, provided you don't already have an abundance of CO2 in your ambient air (lots of occupants; small space; air-tight house/building; etc could lead to this abundance of CO2).
I think that's the take away from this last page or two of discussion.... you have low pH because your tank has high CO2; because you are feeding/proliferating bacteria through carbon dosing. Solution invovles making use of (macro algae); or getting rid of (gas exchange) excess CO2.
Regards,
Sheldon
Well, I'm not so happy with the results of the BPs on my tank and it's probably due to my lack of understanding in their use. I basically followed the instructions given by the place I bought them from and my tank has never looked so bad. Details are as follows.
- Placed 1ltr of NP BPs in a RO Phosfusion 2000 reactor with a 2000ltr p/h pump with the ball valve adjusted to 3/4 on. Tank is 570lts net. (I now realise that I should have gradually introduced the pellets)
- Continually adjusted the flow to try and get the pellets turning over at the recommended rate.
Pellets have been running for about six weeks and the water has only just cleared. The anemones have totally retracted their tentacles which I have never seen happen before and the corals are looking rather sick. I've kept the water parameters within recommended ranges but to know avail. The Ph has continually been an issue to which I understand is as a result of the bacteria. So much for the product requiring less maintenance than other reactors such sulphur reactors. The reactor itself probably requires less maintenance but it introduces other issues that require more attention, so to me no benefit. If anyone has any suggestions or can help, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
Rgds
Steve
- Placed 1ltr of NP BPs in a RO Phosfusion 2000 reactor with a 2000ltr p/h pump with the ball valve adjusted to 3/4 on. Tank is 570lts net. (I now realise that I should have gradually introduced the pellets)
- Continually adjusted the flow to try and get the pellets turning over at the recommended rate.
Pellets have been running for about six weeks and the water has only just cleared. The anemones have totally retracted their tentacles which I have never seen happen before and the corals are looking rather sick. I've kept the water parameters within recommended ranges but to know avail. The Ph has continually been an issue to which I understand is as a result of the bacteria. So much for the product requiring less maintenance than other reactors such sulphur reactors. The reactor itself probably requires less maintenance but it introduces other issues that require more attention, so to me no benefit. If anyone has any suggestions or can help, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
Rgds
Steve
purge43
New member
[[[ph is a factor with my particular case with using the brs bio pellets. I do not use kalk but rely strictly on brs two part. My ph was normally 8.1-8.3 lights on cycle and as low as 7.8 ( a few times 7.7)in the dark cycle. About three or four days into the start of the pellets my ph stabalized at 8.3-8.4 night and day, for a few days. My reactor is a home made device which dumps the effluent water into my sump from a heigth of about one foot. After about a week my ph slowly climbed to 8.9 during the end of the light cycle and down to 8.6 during the dark cycle. Now after about two weeks the ph is gradually coming down about a tenth of a point a day. No other changes were made and testing is done exactly the same.]]]
I am getting no replys about my post. My case seems to be the exact opposite then everyone elses. I cannot understand why my ph is going in the other direction.
I am getting no replys about my post. My case seems to be the exact opposite then everyone elses. I cannot understand why my ph is going in the other direction.
Please provide more details... All your parameters (particularly pH & dKH) as well as your skimmer type and size. Your tank is only 150g and if you had high levels of N & P, your livestock will be stressed due to the sudden drop/shock, as well as the probable drop in pH. Your account of the extended cloudiness reminds me of an account by someone who mentioned that if you don't run a skimmer the bacterial bloom will occur repeatedly.
Some more details re your equipment, and parameters will help us chime in.
SJ
Sorry Purge - guess we were waiting for someone who had a similar experience to weigh in.... I'm drawing a blank on this one... all I would suggest is perhaps to hold off on the two part, or other things individually and monitor any changes if any... you have to experiment a little I would say. Your account is certainly running against the grain of all the other reports provided so far???:hmm6:
Regards,
Sheldon
I am getting no replys about my post. My case seems to be the exact opposite then everyone elses. I cannot understand why my ph is going in the other direction.
It must be from something else, or from measurement error. There is no mechanism for organic carbon dosing to boost pH.
It must be from something else, or from measurement error. There is no mechanism for organic carbon dosing to boost pH.
I am getting no replys about my post. My case seems to be the exact opposite then everyone elses. I cannot understand why my ph is going in the other direction.
It must be from something else, or from measurement error. There is no mechanism for organic carbon dosing to boost pH.
I would agree 1000%..
Sounds like a case of parallax error - i.e. wrong results caused by wrong perspective; the error of misalignment...
In the very least, some component of your particular husbandry is combining with the pellets to yield the results you are finding... time to experiment with process of elimination... let us know how it turns out.
Good Luck... and congrats.. you've just been inducted to the coral reefs school of science experiments... bp division..!!:dance::dance:
SJ
DarkSephiroth
New member
Update: Not sure if its a coincident or what but after raising my power heads to the top and have it running 100% of the time instead of pulsing, my P.H is now 8.0 and i've tested every day for the past 3 days. One in the morning, one at night.
coincident with move of powerheads... aba-solutely
reason.... breaking up surface tension; facilitating gas exchange; CO2 out - [likely] O2 in.... pH up; fish and coral happy-er.
Good work to correct.
SJ
tntneon
SPSahollic
I have a 90g and I'd like to start with the biopellets, I have a 2LF 150 reactor but I read that it won't help much. What's the best reactor to run them and which pump should I use, thanks!
-I'm strongly for the open top reactor , being fed directly with drain(s) coming from display.
An open reactor you can stir everyday , reducing "dead spaces" within the pellets
you have to soack the pellets at least for 48 houres else they don't sink .
when you first start up the reactor i would slowly increasse flow , because to much flow may blow the pellets in your sump or skimmer. :hmm6:
greetingzz tntneon
Sohal Tang Tim
Member
BR-110 Super Reef Octopus!
BR-110 Super Reef Octopus!
I recommend the BR-110 Super Reef Octopus with a mag 3 pump!
This will likely work like a complete charm.
The pump will have adequate flow and the beads will neverrrr cluster
because of the round bottom design of this very, very well built
unit. The reactor will cost you about 180 bux and the pump will cost
you about 60.... for 240 plus NP pellet cost and valve cost you will be in business with a reactor
that can hold up to 800ml of NP pellets (more then you will need but it
will handle your upgrade likely) and work like a dream.
I am using the BR-140 for my 300 gallon system (just the next size up
and it works perfect!!!!!)
The beads will float for 2 days some of them due to air being stuck to
them.....(nottttttt reactor fault!!!!!!) In two days or so they will
sink and then tumble with the rest perfectly....
I recommend a ball valve so you can adjust the flow and fine tune it
to a slowwwwwwww tumble.
Exhaust the reactor to in front of your skimmer intake in sump.
I started off with 1/2 the recommended amount and then added the
other 1/2 a week later....do notttttttttt let the beads see AIR once
you have began to use them or it will kill bacteria on contact.
PM me and I will tell you where I bought mine if you wish as I do not know
what the rules are about posting company names on here etc....
Tim
BR-110 Super Reef Octopus!
I recommend the BR-110 Super Reef Octopus with a mag 3 pump!
This will likely work like a complete charm.
The pump will have adequate flow and the beads will neverrrr cluster
because of the round bottom design of this very, very well built
unit. The reactor will cost you about 180 bux and the pump will cost
you about 60.... for 240 plus NP pellet cost and valve cost you will be in business with a reactor
that can hold up to 800ml of NP pellets (more then you will need but it
will handle your upgrade likely) and work like a dream.
I am using the BR-140 for my 300 gallon system (just the next size up
and it works perfect!!!!!)
The beads will float for 2 days some of them due to air being stuck to
them.....(nottttttt reactor fault!!!!!!) In two days or so they will
sink and then tumble with the rest perfectly....
I recommend a ball valve so you can adjust the flow and fine tune it
to a slowwwwwwww tumble.
Exhaust the reactor to in front of your skimmer intake in sump.
I started off with 1/2 the recommended amount and then added the
other 1/2 a week later....do notttttttttt let the beads see AIR once
you have began to use them or it will kill bacteria on contact.
PM me and I will tell you where I bought mine if you wish as I do not know
what the rules are about posting company names on here etc....
Tim
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