N/P reducing pellets (solid vodka dosing)

[Scej12]

This is new to me...

This is new to me...

The idea is the bio beads will reduce phosphate and nitrate.

Too much of a good thing could potentially strip the phosphate down
to a true ZERO and you do nottttttttttt want ZERO phosphate.....the
animals need *some* phosphate just not much......

The whole thing to me is a crap shoot! The main thing is to continue to
monitor your system and personally I use 1/2 of what is recommended....
I do not want to overshoot...and then..if I will gradually work that up
to 100% of recommendation IFFFFFF I need to...which I might NOT need
to because possibly 1/2 the recommended amount will get me to the phosphate level that I want.... everyone talks about .03 phosphate but
I just watched a video of my favorite reefer David Saxby and he does not
allow his phosphate to get below .015 level..and the number he stated
is alotttttt higher then the .03 everyone seems to aim for.....So is he wrong????? I think not!

Again..crap shoot.....you like rolling dice? hahaha

Sorry..I am not a pro...just my opinion

Take it if it helps you in any way or ignore it otherwise...

have super day

Tim

In theory, the extra pellets might be capable of driving the nutrients low enough to cause problems. If you want to increase the amount, I'd say just add more pellets gradually, and watch for signs of trouble.

I might have missed the departure from the original thought that one cannot overdose this system (after target/trace levels have been reached), however in the context presented I can see the direction you're headed.

In my particular situation, and perhaps due to the fact that my prototype system was drastically under-maintained for for years before the current rehabilitation effort, I'm finding that PO4 is a hek of a lot more difficult to maintain at trace levels than Nitrate. I've successfully reached 0ppm nitrates weeks ago, while my phosphates still remain at 0.3 - 0.5....

Possibly, mine is a combination of PO4 leaching back out from the liverock; and generous feeding (frozen food in particular); however, I'd be interested to hear more about the over-dosing possibility... In my simplified view, I would have just continued to be generous with the feeding, and I was not sure that 0 nitrate would be that detrimental. Another note to add is that it seems that my GHA cycle has finally run its course, perhaps now, all of that latent phos will begin to reach trace levels without going overboard with GFO as I have in addition to the pellets employed... Anyway just my two sense.. Will continue to keep an eye on things and see what happens.

Just wanted to ask because this is the first I've heard about too much pellets being a problem beyond the previously discussed risk of shocking an old system with too fast a drop in levels.

Regards,

Sheldon

 

[mic209]

starting a new tank, with dead rock, should i start biopellets from the get go, or should i wait until i start to see nitrate/phosphate?

 

[Rhodes19]

How are you all keeping the pellets from back siphoning back to pump. I litterally was screaming, so frustrated. I turned off pellet pump to clean sump, then when I turned back on they wouldn't tumble for whatever reason. So I turned off pump to check what the issue was, and it then back siphoned the pellets back into the sump I just cleaned. So then I cleaned sump again, but now I didn't have enough saltwater ready to fill tank back up...grrrrr

Is there a valave or screen of some sort?

I don't know how you have your system set up but it sounds like it is siphoning back into your pump. Is the bottom of your reactor at a higher level than your pump? Is your effluent under water or does it suck air after you turn the pump off? Just taking some queses.

 

[TheFishMan65]

My reactor came with the knitting mesh for both the top and bottom. Can you add some mesh?

 

[Scej12]

starting a new tank, with dead rock, should i start biopellets from the get go, or should i wait until i start to see nitrate/phosphate?

Original thinking suggests that you can start the pellets right away... not sure if it has been demonstrated otherwise...

Sheldon

 

[Ricardo_Jorge]

How are you all keeping the pellets from back siphoning back to pump. I litterally was screaming, so frustrated. I turned off pellet pump to clean sump, then when I turned back on they wouldn't tumble for whatever reason. So I turned off pump to check what the issue was, and it then back siphoned the pellets back into the sump I just cleaned. So then I cleaned sump again, but now I didn't have enough saltwater ready to fill tank back up...grrrrr

Is there a valave or screen of some sort?

Can you give us a pic of your system? Will be easer for us to help you!

Hug

 

[DarkSephiroth]

Here is something that i noticed after trying to reduce my CO2. My red slime slows down a bit, i still have some, but not alot like how it used to be

 

[eaquinta]

The reason I want the pellets is to see if this helps color up my corals better.

The biopellets are food for bacteria, correct to me if i wrong... If the most of the parametrs of the tank are good, how the biopllets helps to coral coloration ?

 

[tmz]

I've run my tanks with and without carbon dosing without any observeable change in coloration except for some browning of certain lps at higher doses .
In tanks where the organic carbon dosing reduces high nitrate and PO4 improved coloration for some corals may occur from a less browning driven by NO3 , enhanced calcification with lower PO4 and clearer water resulting in increased light. Otherwise , I'm very skeptical that the increased bacteria could do much for color bsed on my experience.

 

[bertoni]

Just wanted to ask because this is the first I've heard about too much pellets being a problem beyond the previously discussed risk of shocking an old system with too fast a drop in levels.

Well, it's important to keep in mind that we, as hobbyists, don't have the tools needed to measure nutrients at the low levels most carbon-dosed tanks seemed to reach. Our test kits don't resolve low levels such as those seen in the ocean, and we can't measure simple organic compounds, for example, that can contain nutrients and potentially can be taken up by corals. So we are limited to guessing to try to explain what might be happening.

Many corals depend on nutrients from the water column, and due to their photosynthetic symbionts, can take up nitrate and phosphate directly. In theory, the pellet reactors might be able to remove enough nutrients from the water to starve the corals. Some people report problems with corals becoming pale, or otherwise having problems, and seem to be able to fix the problem by adding more nutrients, either by dosing amino acids, for example, or in other ways. So I would proceed based on the assumption that pellets potentially can be overdosed, on grounds of general caution.

 

[tntneon]

In nature corals have much more food (living zoo-,bacterial- and normal plancton) , and this with far less dissolved nutrients like phosphorus and nitrate in the surrounding waters then in ower tanks.

At first i only used Bio pellets in my system only feeding one cube of mysis a day , this time (the first 10 month's) coloration got great and algea dyed off.
Turning my then brown olivegreen christmas acropora slowly into a proper green acropora growing good , not super fast though.
In the second year the coloration of the acro stayed pretty much the same , until my acropora was getting fluocerent mint green and not growing at all.
nitrates and phosphates all the time flat zero (salifert).
With all the waterparameters in check i slowly began to feed more , keeping an eye open for any algea and keep monitoring trattes and PO4's.
I feed every day at the morning some flakes (ocean nutrition) at the evening a cube of mysis , + every 2 days some plancton and +every week reefbooster from biodigest.
The coloration is now back fluorecent full green with more white growing tips then ever :celeb2: .

What i wanna say is that BP's can reduce your nutrients , giving back some bacterio plancton , in my case this was enough for my acro the second year.
But after that is was realy getting not enough food.
It is a fine line (balance) between keeping NO3 and PO4 down and at the same time provide alot of food to the corals w/o having algea problems.

Bio pellets makes that you can feed more (when nitrates and PO4 are very low) , and you have more margin to feed .
When you find the balance between food/low nutrients then coloration and growth lies before you... , if you still keep an eye on alkinity and calcium too because more growth results in higher alkinity/calium demand :hmm4: .

greetingzz tntneon

 

[ReefAus]

Would you recommend using ROWAphos in a separate reactor concurrently with the pellets? I'll post my tank details shortly for some further advice as I am willing to give the pellets another go. I am just concerned over my stock as they didn't react very well when I introduced the pellets just recently. Thanks

Rgds

Steve

 

[ReefAus]

How are you all keeping the pellets from back siphoning back to pump. I litterally was screaming, so frustrated. I turned off pellet pump to clean sump, then when I turned back on they wouldn't tumble for whatever reason. So I turned off pump to check what the issue was, and it then back siphoned the pellets back into the sump I just cleaned. So then I cleaned sump again, but now I didn't have enough saltwater ready to fill tank back up...grrrrr

Is there a valave or screen of some sort?

I was having the same problem so I put a plastic non-return valve in. Essentially, when you turn the pump off and when it tries to syphon back into the sump it pushes the valve into the closed position immediately so pellets etc don't leave the reactor chamber. You should be able to get a valve from any garden irrigation or hardware store.

Rgds

Steve

 

[Scej12]

Well, it's important to keep in mind that we, as hobbyists, don't have the tools needed to measure nutrients at the low levels most carbon-dosed tanks seemed to reach. Our test kits don't resolve low levels such as those seen in the ocean, and we can't measure simple organic compounds, for example, that can contain nutrients and potentially can be taken up by corals. So we are limited to guessing to try to explain what might be happening.

Many corals depend on nutrients from the water column, and due to their photosynthetic symbionts, can take up nitrate and phosphate directly. In theory, the pellet reactors might be able to remove enough nutrients from the water to starve the corals. Some people report problems with corals becoming pale, or otherwise having problems, and seem to be able to fix the problem by adding more nutrients, either by dosing amino acids, for example, or in other ways. So I would proceed based on the assumption that pellets potentially can be overdosed, on grounds of general caution.

In nature corals have much more food (living zoo-,bacterial- and normal plancton) , and this with far less dissolved nutrients like phosphorus and nitrate in the surrounding waters then in ower tanks.

At first i only used Bio pellets in my system only feeding one cube of mysis a day , this time (the first 10 month's) coloration got great and algea dyed off.
Turning my then brown olivegreen christmas acropora slowly into a proper green acropora growing good , not super fast though.
In the second year the coloration of the acro stayed pretty much the same , until my acropora was getting fluocerent mint green and not growing at all.
nitrates and phosphates all the time flat zero (salifert).
With all the waterparameters in check i slowly began to feed more , keeping an eye open for any algea and keep monitoring trattes and PO4's.
I feed every day at the morning some flakes (ocean nutrition) at the evening a cube of mysis , + every 2 days some plancton and +every week reefbooster from biodigest.
The coloration is now back fluorecent full green with more white growing tips then ever :celeb2: .

What i wanna say is that BP's can reduce your nutrients , giving back some bacterio plancton , in my case this was enough for my acro the second year.
But after that is was realy getting not enough food.
It is a fine line (balance) between keeping NO3 and PO4 down and at the same time provide alot of food to the corals w/o having algea problems.

Bio pellets makes that you can feed more (when nitrates and PO4 are very low) , and you have more margin to feed .
When you find the balance between food/low nutrients then coloration and growth lies before you... , if you still keep an eye on alkinity and calcium too because more growth results in higher alkinity/calium demand :hmm4: .

greetingzz tntneon

Ahhh Yes... I see and do agree. There is a saying in this hobby: "if you can't measure it... don't dose it..." These points being made definitely shed light on some of the limitations of available assessment tools... this is the point at which we really get into husbandry: using our collective experience to assess coral appearance and establish a bio-assay of what's happening in our systems...

Personally I would opt to try the approach of tntneon... Selective supplementation. In truth the approach of biopellet usage is not to far different from that of the established Zeovit system except that the Zeo system has a vast array of nutrient supplementation available to support the establishment of ultra low nutrient dynamics. If I were to revert to my original attraction to this system it would be that bp does not require the daily agitation of zeolites to achieve the same low nutrient levels desired.... only the zeo system takes the entire system a few steps further in terms of overall resolution....

Good thing is that the zeo products (supplements) are available to be used with any system of Low nutrient establishment - so why not mix and match?

Sheldon

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good thing is that the zeo products (supplements) are available to be used with any system of Low nutrient establishment - so why not mix and match?

I might be inclined to agree, but only if I knew what I was mixing and matching. Since I can't, I don't.

 

[BuckeyeTodd]

I don't know how you have your system set up but it sounds like it is siphoning back into your pump. Is the bottom of your reactor at a higher level than your pump? Is your effluent under water or does it suck air after you turn the pump off? Just taking some queses.

Thanks for the advice.

I contacted Coral Vue(I run the 110 model Octopus). They suggested making sure the return tube was underwater, as you did. I thought it was underwater, but perhaps it was not at the time as I had been cleaning sump and the tube may have been moved. They also said that my maxi jet 1200 doesn't handle back pressure well at all, so not sure what to do from here. The Maxi Jet sits about one inch higher than bottom of reactor.

I guess when I do next waterchange I can test with return line underwater and go from there unless anyone has better advice

 

[Scej12]

Good Point...

Good Point...

Good thing is that the zeo products (supplements) are available to be used with any system of Low nutrient establishment - so why not mix and match?

I might be inclined to agree, but only if I knew what I was mixing and matching. Since I can't, I don't.

Fair enough... can't blame them for keeping a secret though...

So far I'm just using the ZeoBak to supplement the carbon dosing... Will get into some of the amino acid , and colour enhancement products when I finally get my PO4 down to trace levels.

Regards,

SJ

 

[tntneon]

Onces you really hit zero phosphates , you can try to experiment with aminoacids scej12.
But only dose like 1/3 or 1/4 of the recommended dosage , else you could end up cleaning the glass 2 times a day.

But what we realy must try to achieve (i think) is , a low nutrient system where you have try to feed live zoo / baterial plancton and other fresh live foods and thus mimicking the ocean .
I know this is the ideal situation , where one have too spend serveral houres a day in maintaining and breeding the foods for your reef.
In real life you can try to feed comercial plantonic foods and try to determine wich foods are high in aminoacids and/or trace element.

My findings are that my acro's like zoo- and bacterioplancton alot.
Zoa's really like phytoplancton
And my LPS are more lovers of mysis and other (bigger) foods.

greetingzz tntneon

 

[Rhodes19]

Thanks for the advice.

I contacted Coral Vue(I run the 110 model Octopus). They suggested making sure the return tube was underwater, as you did. I thought it was underwater, but perhaps it was not at the time as I had been cleaning sump and the tube may have been moved. They also said that my maxi jet 1200 doesn't handle back pressure well at all, so not sure what to do from here. The Maxi Jet sits about one inch higher than bottom of reactor.

I guess when I do next waterchange I can test with return line underwater and go from there unless anyone has better advice

Cool beans. I think I read some where that the mag 3 was recommended for the 110. Try moving the MJ up a little higher too and see what happens. That might help.

 

[sneaton]

will having some pellets stuck in between the top screen of my reactor cause any problems? i have a tlf 150 with 200 ml of pellets fed by a mj1200 and im getting good movement with valve half way closed.. my concern is that i didnt soak the pellets so some (maybe a teaspoon worth) floated to the top and got stuck in between the top screens..do i need to break the reator down or will everything be alright? do i need to worry about sulphur building up?