Need help deciding skimmer.
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UCanDoIt
In Memoriam
If you want the best quality built skimmer for the money as for some reefers, quality construction is important besides great performance, go with the H&S A250-2x1260 $1,699.99 (manufacturer's rating up to 700g). Other things to consider, H&S has 2 year warranty and the replacement parts are reasonable (not cheap) and it is built like a tank with extra supports at all the stress points. Checkout owner that have this skimmer:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=906568
If you don't mind construction that is just adequate, but not sacrifice performance, the least expensive skimmer on your list is the new ATi BM250 $749. Again, the construction is not even close to any of the other 3 skimmers on your list, but of course, it's 1/2 the price. Also, the other 3 skimmers are recirculating and the BM is non-recirculating. If you can wait, probably the BM300 will be a better if for your system, but it really depends on your bioload.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=906568
If you don't mind construction that is just adequate, but not sacrifice performance, the least expensive skimmer on your list is the new ATi BM250 $749. Again, the construction is not even close to any of the other 3 skimmers on your list, but of course, it's 1/2 the price. Also, the other 3 skimmers are recirculating and the BM is non-recirculating. If you can wait, probably the BM300 will be a better if for your system, but it really depends on your bioload.
Have you thought about an octopus skimmer? people have been giving really good reviews on them lately. Its about half the price as the others. For that price you could run 2 of them. Plus, they have 3 recirc needlewheels on em.
http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1014
Its supposedly rated up to 800 gallons.
Stewie
http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1014
Its supposedly rated up to 800 gallons.
Stewie
You are getting a better value in the RC500 over the Deltec or H&S. You are getting a larger bodied, 3 Ehiem pump skimmer. It compares more to a Deltec 703 or H&S 3x1260. The ER is rated conservatively, the others, are "generously" rated. The construction is very good, and replacement parts are reasonable and available.
The ATI is a different animal than the others. Non recirc, "in-sump" meshwheel impeller skimmer. The price is very attractive.
The ATI is a different animal than the others. Non recirc, "in-sump" meshwheel impeller skimmer. The price is very attractive.
i agree with your statements 100%. Im still leaning towards the Euroreef in a way.The one thing that ive noticed is the H&S and Deltec skimmers you really dont hear any negatives from the owners who have them,unlike ATI or Euroreef.Seems like some people swear by them and others claim that they just cant get them to work properly.The RC500 does appear to be the better value as far as the diameter and the 3-eheims pump compared to the others,but does that mean that it is designed to work as well? That im not sure of...........and the ATI is another story,from the pics ive seen,the skimmer is not adjustable and skims extremely wet.The only thing attractive about it is the price and the air that it produces.The skimmate ive seen so far has been marginal at best.
I have not been following the octopus skimmers.I will check out the thread and see for myself. I do know that its time for a good skimmer this time,out of the four ive purchased,starting with a prizm deluxe,aqua c remora,asm g3,and my latest(which is no slouch)a quad beckett. Im looking for something made of cast acrylic,energy efficient,and reputable as being very consistent.
UCanDoIt
In Memoriam
Only mavgi has gotten really dry skimmate on the BM250, but he fiddles around with his skimmer a lot. Here's another thread if it's helpful
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=985567
Common, what do you mean it's not adjustable? You can get wet or wetter. :lol: Better not say that too loud or mavgi will get upset with me again.
Sounds like even the BM300 is not worth it for you to wait for. The new ERs do look promising... most of the complaints on ER is with the older models. I know that during 2006, my local dealers had more switchovers from ER and ASM to H&S and Deltec than any other skimmer. That just only means that more reefers have purchased these skimmers during the past 3 years than any other skimmer.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=985567
Common, what do you mean it's not adjustable? You can get wet or wetter. :lol: Better not say that too loud or mavgi will get upset with me again.
Sounds like even the BM300 is not worth it for you to wait for. The new ERs do look promising... most of the complaints on ER is with the older models. I know that during 2006, my local dealers had more switchovers from ER and ASM to H&S and Deltec than any other skimmer. That just only means that more reefers have purchased these skimmers during the past 3 years than any other skimmer.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8963574#post8963574 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by UCanDoIt
Only mavgi has gotten really dry skimmate on the BM250, but he fiddles around with his skimmer a lot. Here's another thread if it's helpful
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=985567
Common, what do you mean it's not adjustable? You can get wet or wetter. :lol: Better not say that too loud or mavgi will get upset with me again.
Sounds like even the BM300 is not worth it for you to wait for. The new ERs do look promising... most of the complaints on ER is with the older models. I know that during 2006, my local dealers had more switchovers from ER and ASM to H&S and Deltec than any other skimmer. That just only means that more reefers have purchased these skimmers during the past 3 years than any other skimmer.
Thats one of my main concerns,i travel two weeks at a time usually ,and i just dont have time to be fiddling with a skimmer to keep it working.Thats my main issue with ASM skimmers,great skimmer while its working,then it overflows for no apparent reason,even when the bubble level is low to produce dry foam.My wife takes care of my tanks when im gone so she is "allowing" me to spend a few more bucks this time on something that will be plug and play dependable.I HOPE
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=749634&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
There is the octopus thread.. It might be worth reading the 100+ pages if it saves you 700+.
There is also another model here: http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1136 using 4x needlewheel recircs. Of course its over a grand.
Stewie
There is the octopus thread.. It might be worth reading the 100+ pages if it saves you 700+.
There is also another model here: http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1136 using 4x needlewheel recircs. Of course its over a grand.
Stewie
tacocat
Premium Member
I'd go with the Deltec. You can add a Self Cleaning Head to that skimmer at a later date. Mmmm SCH.
ER makes a good skimmer, but they still have a few more things to tweak out. I know a guy who has an ER skimmer with 5 Eheim NW pumps.
My first thought when seeing it was that the body was too narrow for those pumps and that there would be too much turbulence. As it turns out, it runs better with three pumps. When all five pumps are on the skimmate is very inconsistent. It's dark one day and light the next.
On this H&S skimmer, the body design is more logical considering the pumps limitations and strong points. The wider body lessens tubulence and allows the pumps to operate at lower a head.
ER makes a good skimmer, but they still have a few more things to tweak out. I know a guy who has an ER skimmer with 5 Eheim NW pumps.
My first thought when seeing it was that the body was too narrow for those pumps and that there would be too much turbulence. As it turns out, it runs better with three pumps. When all five pumps are on the skimmate is very inconsistent. It's dark one day and light the next.
On this H&S skimmer, the body design is more logical considering the pumps limitations and strong points. The wider body lessens tubulence and allows the pumps to operate at lower a head.
i cant afford the deltec 703 or the H&S 3x1260 so they are out.The deltec 702 or the H&S 250 are more in my range.I would not spend $1200 on a self cleaning head no matter how cool it is!
Thats why im having such a hard time deciding,the RC500 is bigger and more pumps then the the Deltec or H&S im looking at but does that make it better? Thats what i cant figure out. And the Deltec i can actuallly afford is a bit underrated for my size tank.
Thats why im having such a hard time deciding,the RC500 is bigger and more pumps then the the Deltec or H&S im looking at but does that make it better? Thats what i cant figure out. And the Deltec i can actuallly afford is a bit underrated for my size tank.
Its an interesting mix
Deltec 702 (2 Eheim)
10" body 24" height
$1750
H&S A200 2x1260 (2 Eheim)
8" body 32" height
$1600
ER RC250 (3 Eheim)
12" body 30" height
$1530
I think the H&S 8" body is too narrow for 2 Eheim pumps. I believe they have seen this and are replacing it with the A250 with a 10" body.
The Deltec 702 has the 10" body, but is kind of short @ 24". This is a skimmer meant for limited height in the stand. They also have the 902 which is also a 10" body but is 39" tall.
All 3 mfgrs seem to agree that the ideal setup for a 3 Eheim skimmer is a 12" body and ~ 30" in height.
Deltec 702 (2 Eheim)
10" body 24" height
$1750
H&S A200 2x1260 (2 Eheim)
8" body 32" height
$1600
ER RC250 (3 Eheim)
12" body 30" height
$1530
I think the H&S 8" body is too narrow for 2 Eheim pumps. I believe they have seen this and are replacing it with the A250 with a 10" body.
The Deltec 702 has the 10" body, but is kind of short @ 24". This is a skimmer meant for limited height in the stand. They also have the 902 which is also a 10" body but is 39" tall.
All 3 mfgrs seem to agree that the ideal setup for a 3 Eheim skimmer is a 12" body and ~ 30" in height.
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Jim_S
Timo Boll
Yes the A200 has been replaced by the A250. Look pretty sweet IMO.
I spoke to Jeff @ ER the other day and they're working on a 10" body with 2 eheims. I'm very interested and he said they might be out in time for IMAC 07'.
Thats funny you said that Mandrex. I have noticed that owners of the German skimmers tend to not publicly complain about their skimmers. IMO, they are great. But for example, on the old H&S A200 2x1260, no body complains about the inability to control the skimmer with consistancy, or run the pumps wide open (unless their system is low on DOC's). In which they wouldn't need a skimmer that big anyways. But it confuses me that they don't complain after dropping $1600. There's so much talk about how they match the pumps to the body so well.....
I'm not saying they'e not any good, I've never used one. I just don't see anyone complaining like they do about other companies.
Oh well.
But with regards to your system, I'd rule out the D-tec (inferior material and replacement parts are ridiculous) and focus on the H&S (A250 not the A200) and ER. I like the ER's. Guess I'm just an all American kinda guy
And as for no complaints about D-tecs, PM dirtyreefer. He loves Deltec.....
Cheers,
Jim
I spoke to Jeff @ ER the other day and they're working on a 10" body with 2 eheims. I'm very interested and he said they might be out in time for IMAC 07'.
Thats funny you said that Mandrex. I have noticed that owners of the German skimmers tend to not publicly complain about their skimmers. IMO, they are great. But for example, on the old H&S A200 2x1260, no body complains about the inability to control the skimmer with consistancy, or run the pumps wide open (unless their system is low on DOC's). In which they wouldn't need a skimmer that big anyways. But it confuses me that they don't complain after dropping $1600. There's so much talk about how they match the pumps to the body so well.....
I'm not saying they'e not any good, I've never used one. I just don't see anyone complaining like they do about other companies.
Oh well.
But with regards to your system, I'd rule out the D-tec (inferior material and replacement parts are ridiculous) and focus on the H&S (A250 not the A200) and ER. I like the ER's. Guess I'm just an all American kinda guy
And as for no complaints about D-tecs, PM dirtyreefer. He loves Deltec.....
Cheers,
Jim
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tacocat
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8964762#post8964762 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimdogg187
And as for no complaints about D-tecs, PM dirtyreefer. He loves Deltec.....
Cheers,
Jim
Honestly, all that guy does is complain and add fuel to a fire.
If you don't want an SCH, I wouldn't get a Deltec. Deltec skimmers aren't built very well. The A200, never owned one. I bet all youy have to do is shorten the riser tube by an inch or two. I did that with a Grotech, and it made a WORLD of difference. I really like my H&S. It's great. I really can't see myself yanking it.
As far as skimmer differences go, you can look at them all day long on paper. It's the little differences that seperate them.
manderx,
I realize you have a beef with Deltec and you are correct. The replacement parts are crazy expensive, and they are comparatvely overpriced, but you can't deny that they perform well.
As far as skimmers go, recirc needlewheels with Eheims are the best things available right now. There are only three companies who make them. My choice would be H&S first, and Deltec second, only because ER is still toying with the pump/body combo right now.
Jim_S
Timo Boll
You're right :lol: It is a little outta control. But IMO, his beef is legit.
With the A200, I'm sure you could lower the riser a bit and that would help. But H&S decided not to do this and upgrade to a 10" body instead. And I bet its sweet skimmer
I was very happy with my H&S. Jim
tacocat
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8964980#post8964980 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jimdogg187
You're right :lol: It is a little outta control. But IMO, his beef is legit.
With the A200, I'm sure you could lower the riser a bit and that would help. But H&S decided not to do this and upgrade to a 10" body instead. And I bet its sweet skimmer
Jim
Yeah, that's the one SUCKY thing about German skimmers. They use metric plumbing....or is that the one SUCKY thing about the US? We don't use metric.
How is ER toying with the pump/body size of the 3 pump RC500? It is pretty much identical to what Deltec and H&S do. Its seems that they all agree that size is ideal. H&S is still toying with the design of the 2 pump skimmer and for some reason, still selling the A200.
