A dedicated forum to the keeping of these corals is a must. A place where others can share information of the proper husbandry techniques would further the understanding of their captive care requirements. A dedicated forum would be a "win- win " scenario. Since these corals are already being collected, imported and henceforth dying it would be in everyones best interest to understand how to stop the dying part. Avansickle linked me to this thread and it has a wealth of knowledge. I will also contribute as much as I can toward expanding our base of knowledge toward succesfully maintaining these corals.
New Deodronephthya sp. study group?
- Thread starter charles matthews
- Start date
mcox33
New member
I have all the little filter feeding things as well.
When I was running the bio-ball sump I had about a zillion little calcified yellow feather dusters. I put that sump on my Mom's tank in Feb.05 and switched mine to the tidepool 2 with the bio-wheel. Now I have lots of the little calcified type featherdusters but they are red. I have lots of pink, yellow and purple sponges down in my rocks as well as some type of little round, about 1/4 inch long tube looking things attached to the glass and rocks.
And very little sand to deal with, I like that.
When I was running the bio-ball sump I had about a zillion little calcified yellow feather dusters. I put that sump on my Mom's tank in Feb.05 and switched mine to the tidepool 2 with the bio-wheel. Now I have lots of the little calcified type featherdusters but they are red. I have lots of pink, yellow and purple sponges down in my rocks as well as some type of little round, about 1/4 inch long tube looking things attached to the glass and rocks.
And very little sand to deal with, I like that.
Herpervet
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6639385#post6639385 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by graveyardworm
Hi Charles, I've been periodically checking in on coralite.net so far nothing new. So I'm wondering how things are going there, and if the feeding you described in one of your last most recent post is still having a positive effect.
Mary, we're all still waiting for a description of your husbandry techniques as per Charles's request, Herpervet has been waitng on pins and needles since 12-21-05, which must be getting very uncomfortable. The entire world is waiting in anticipation
Actually had been waiting with "baited breath" : Much more comfortable than the pins and needles but not too good for the social life.
Thank's Mary, Charles et al. for the great info. BTW Charles, I recently picked up a slick back magazine you wrote an article in. Havn't read it yet but it looked interesting. A piece about refugia I think?
Question and Observation: I placed a dendronepthyia in my tank which then got picked at by a wrasse and a tang. The two fish basically decimated the coral but left another one placed in the tank completely alone. Within a day and half of eating the coral the wrasse (which was extremely fat and healthy) suddenly died with no obvious cause. The Tang is fine. Could there be a correlation? I have read that dendronepthyia can be extremely toxic. If this was a case of poisoning I would think the tang would suffer as well.
In a highly skimmed system with little extra free organics for the corals to take up do you think it would be benefical to take some skimmer sludge- dilute it outside of the aquarium in a cup and then use a turkey baster to gently waft some of the organic material across the dendro? Of course the standard disclaimer needs to be put in place- don't use to thick of a concentrate etc etc. By doing this would it be possible to supplement some of the organics that these corals possible need yet maintain the constant water quality that they require? With proper dosing the extra organics would be re-assimilated by the skimmer with little ill effects to the system.
graveyardworm
Premium Member
mcox33
New member
I won't do that. I really don't think the gunk the skimmer pulls would be in the right condition to reconstitute. (unless you are skimming a lot wetter than I do.
I am not even sure it would still be valuable after the skimmer has broken everything down.
Please don't try this in your main tank. If it is toxic and I believe it to be, you might not be able to skim it back out fast enough.
JMO
I am not even sure it would still be valuable after the skimmer has broken everything down.
Please don't try this in your main tank. If it is toxic and I believe it to be, you might not be able to skim it back out fast enough.
JMO
Herpervet
New member
FWIW I think it would be simpler to downsize the skimmer or only run it intermittantly.
I didn't read the article but in the few samples of skimmate I have looked at microscopically, there sure are a bunch of nematodes that get skimmed out and I'm sure lots of other live potential food items.
I didn't read the article but in the few samples of skimmate I have looked at microscopically, there sure are a bunch of nematodes that get skimmed out and I'm sure lots of other live potential food items.
rickyfins
New member
skimmer
skimmer
Skimming is an option you might want to do without totally, that is if you are truly interested in keeping dendro! Some systems can or could be designed to accomodate such a load. And yes it is possible to keep other corals in the system as well. Mostly softies, zoos, and LPS(love nutrients),and a few SPS(Monti variety). My 55 is running with a skimmer that is at least 10 years old. It is an old coralife air lift skimmer. In fact I think they still make a similar model. They work, but not as good or efficiently as those that are powered. In fact I downgraded because I wanted to keep more LPS in my tank. Its working out fine. In fact, it isn't pulling out much gunk. Its been working that way for about 6 months and minimal water changes too. Just an option you might think of. Over skimming is really only neccessary if you have an abundance of SPS(Acro).
thanks,
Rick
skimmer
Skimming is an option you might want to do without totally, that is if you are truly interested in keeping dendro! Some systems can or could be designed to accomodate such a load. And yes it is possible to keep other corals in the system as well. Mostly softies, zoos, and LPS(love nutrients),and a few SPS(Monti variety). My 55 is running with a skimmer that is at least 10 years old. It is an old coralife air lift skimmer. In fact I think they still make a similar model. They work, but not as good or efficiently as those that are powered. In fact I downgraded because I wanted to keep more LPS in my tank. Its working out fine. In fact, it isn't pulling out much gunk. Its been working that way for about 6 months and minimal water changes too. Just an option you might think of. Over skimming is really only neccessary if you have an abundance of SPS(Acro).
thanks,
Rick
graveyardworm
Premium Member
If you look to the link I provided regarding skimmate contents, you may have second thoughts about running skimmerless. The skimmer pulls out alot of metals that without alot of water changing or skimming would likely build up to toxic levels. I think the benefits that a skimmer provides far outweighs the benefits of the organisms it removes. Chances are if your continueing to find specific organisms in the skimmate then you have a sustainable population that the skimmer will never completely remove.
rickyfins
New member
heavy metals?
heavy metals?
There shouldn't be any metals in your reef! LOL Good salt, Good RO water, no problems! Thats all there is to it man, Plus metal is not an organic substance, and a skimmer pulls mostly(99%+) organic materials from the tank. Sorry, but you might be mistaken, you might be thinking of minerals, but no sir, not metals.
thanks,
Rick
heavy metals?
There shouldn't be any metals in your reef! LOL Good salt, Good RO water, no problems! Thats all there is to it man, Plus metal is not an organic substance, and a skimmer pulls mostly(99%+) organic materials from the tank. Sorry, but you might be mistaken, you might be thinking of minerals, but no sir, not metals.
thanks,
Rick
graveyardworm
Premium Member
Open and read the link, feeding is one major way to introduce metals to your water.
rickyfins
New member
Study by Ron Shimek
Study by Ron Shimek
If you look at the number of samples and you study the tables, his research can be considered inconclusive to the scientific eye. His baseline data is from a small number of participants, and there are other factors not mentioned like: salt used, temperature, did every participant use the same skimmer, same food, same size tank, and many others I wont get into. The table indicates the largest concentration in the sludge, not skimmate. Skimmate has lower concentrations, as sludge that takes forever to build up has the largest concentrations. In addition to the data, he does not mention that all metals found were bonded to an organic compound(food, organism). If a refugium is in place, nutirent/metal export would be sufficiently done with macro algae. In fact its been done for years without skimming. Skimming is still an option that a dendro tank can do without to be successful. A refugium on the otherhand is a must!
thanks,
Rick
Study by Ron Shimek
If you look at the number of samples and you study the tables, his research can be considered inconclusive to the scientific eye. His baseline data is from a small number of participants, and there are other factors not mentioned like: salt used, temperature, did every participant use the same skimmer, same food, same size tank, and many others I wont get into. The table indicates the largest concentration in the sludge, not skimmate. Skimmate has lower concentrations, as sludge that takes forever to build up has the largest concentrations. In addition to the data, he does not mention that all metals found were bonded to an organic compound(food, organism). If a refugium is in place, nutirent/metal export would be sufficiently done with macro algae. In fact its been done for years without skimming. Skimming is still an option that a dendro tank can do without to be successful. A refugium on the otherhand is a must!
thanks,
Rick
rickyfins
New member
skimming
skimming
The tables indicate that most nutrient per volume of export is done by macro algae so skimming is an option if you have a fuge. I grow more macro and less skimmate so I am happy, less cleaning for me! Its also a great way to build up pods and such, as well as many other benefits most of you know. Skimming with dendro= option, refugium with dendro= definitely.
thanks
rick
skimming
The tables indicate that most nutrient per volume of export is done by macro algae so skimming is an option if you have a fuge. I grow more macro and less skimmate so I am happy, less cleaning for me! Its also a great way to build up pods and such, as well as many other benefits most of you know. Skimming with dendro= option, refugium with dendro= definitely.
thanks
rick
I still don't believe their is a baseline of success established across the board for keeping Dendro's. Without that we need to keep experimenting and comparing notes to find out what is succesful. Many SPS lovers that also want to have dendro's would not be willing to sacrifice their skimmer. Also that their is no quantifiable evidence to suggest that a skimmed tank can't have dendro's. Mary's proof. What I am looking for is the "magic bullet" or "steps to success" that may allow a skimmed tank or any tank to succesfully keep dendro's. We are at the point with dendro's that the hobby was 20 years ago with acro's. I can't see us having these same discussions 20 years from now. A newbe will probably pop up on one of these boards in 20 years asking how to keep dendro's. Hopefully by then it will be boiled down to a simple answer as do x then y and finally z and that's it. We just have the fun of trying to find x,y and z right now.
I have had a pink carnation in my tank for a few months and it is doing great. It is inflated about 90% of the time as one other indicated at the beginning of this thread. It sits mostly shaded at the bottom of the tank which is a 58 gallon with 2 400w 20k XM bulbs. I also have a great deal of SPS (mostly acros) in the tank as well as few various softies and SPS. Everything in the tank does quite well in growth and color. I know the color on some of the SPS could be better however I am far over due for a bulb change. I skim fairly heavy. However I dose Kent micro-vert once a week to once every two weeks. I started doing that because of the carnation in hopes that it will sustain it since it is non-photosynthetic. My carnation is pink and white in color (mostly pink) but I have noticed that the parts that are not shaded from the MH seems really white (as if it bleaches a little.) I guess a possible requirement may be to keep it out of any direct MH light if possible.
okay correction to previous post so that there is no confusion.... I stated I have had when i really mean I still have....
also this may be a stupid question.... and it may already be burried in this thread somewhere.... but is it safe to just cut a piece off like any other softie without creating any problems for the coral????
also this may be a stupid question.... and it may already be burried in this thread somewhere.... but is it safe to just cut a piece off like any other softie without creating any problems for the coral????
