New Deodronephthya sp. study group?

[charles matthews]

Mary, as I look over the flow information you have, I'm not sure I understand it. You have three Maxijet 1200s? That means you have about maybe 750 gallons/hour in a 90 gallon tank, or less than a 10x turnover? This doesn't sound like enough to blow the substrate back like you described.

Another question (thank you!)- is the stuff that grows on the glass kind of smeary, or is it dusty? Does it come off in clumps or just dissolve? (I'm asking because I wonder if the dendros are feeding on it). For yhour information, I regularly dose silica in my tanks to keep a light diatom bloom on the glass; I suspect that in West Virginia there may geologically be some silica in the water.

Any way we could get a picture of your sump?

-Charles

 

[mcox33]

Here is the only one I have available right now. I took it a few days ago, to send to my Son, who lives in California

 

[mcox33]

I cheated, and quoted, again. So I can add the answers in without having to take time to type the question as well. However,I am taking out all the quote information. This is the questions posted by charles matthews




Mary, as I look over the flow information you have, I'm not sure I understand it. You have three Maxijet 1200s? That means you have about maybe 750 gallons/hour in a 90 gallon tank, or less than a 10x turnover? This doesn't sound like enough to blow the substrate back like you described.

I also have a Seio 820 attached to the back about center ways between the overflow and the other end of the tank. I had had 500+ gph pumps in each back corner but they seem to have died. Natural death most likely. (can't remember when I last cleaned them or even if I ever did) They were several years old as they went it the tank at time of setup.

Another question (thank you!)- is the stuff that grows on the glass kind of smeary, or is it dusty? Does it come off in clumps or just dissolve? (I'm asking because I wonder if the dendros are feeding on it).



Depending on how long it has been, and whether it has a brownish yellow color or green color, it varies.





For your information, I regularly dose silica in my tanks to keep a light diatom bloom on the glass; I suspect that in West Virginia there may geologically be some silica in the water.


If there is it doesn't show up on my test kit.


Any way we could get a picture of your sump?


See the picture I posted in my earlier post.

 

[graveyardworm]

OOOh I see a little mangrove, cool. I also see water crashing into the sump from the skimmer return? Any macros in there?

 

[mcox33]

I cheated, and quoted, again. So I can add the answers in without having to take time to type the question as well. However,I am taking out all the quote information. This is the questions posted by graveyardworm




OOOh I see a little mangrove, cool. I also see water crashing into the sump from the skimmer return? Any macros in there?


No. I no longer keep macros in the sump,due to the fact that, they kept getting sucked into the return pump.

 

[charles matthews]

Ok- Mary! So, you've kept these dendros for going on two and a half years. What do you think has given you the record around here? What's the cause of your success? Oh, and please make sure to take pics- I am having nightmares about those dendros dying while you clean the hair algae out of the tank...

-Charles

 

[mcox33]

I cheated, and quoted, again. So I can add the answers in without having to take time to type the question as well. However,I am taking out all the quote information. This is the questions posted by charles matthews




Ok- Mary! So, you've kept these dendros for going on two and a half years. What do you think has given you the record around here?

I have no clue as I do things hap hazardly, if the tank doesn't look right I try to figure out why, and fix it. I feed whenever I want to watch the fish eat or whenever I think about it, no schedule there. No Idea why they live in my tank and not someone elses.

Unless maybe it is the fact, that all the original rock, that went in my tank at setup, came from Myrtle Beach, in South Carolina. My uncle took me to get it. While I was in North Carolina babysitting my grandchildren. We filled his car full and it was very heavy dense rock. Unless that is the difference I have no Idea.

What's the cause of your success?

Again no Idea unless it is the live rock that had washed up during a storm at Myrtle Beach. This rock was rounded, dense, heavy for it's size and below the high tide line so it was still pretty wet when I got it. I brought it home and started it in a 55 gallon tank so it would be cycled and ready when the 90 got set up. Other than that I am clueless.



Oh, and please make sure to take pics- I am having nightmares about those dendros dying while you clean the hair algae out of the tank...

Don't say that you will make me cry. I love my dendro's.

 

[sammy33]

Pictures

Pictures

Charles-
Are you still keeping Dendros? Do you have any pictures?

The only thing I have is a small neptheid (cheating as it is photosynthetic capnella) that has probably doubled in size in the last few months.

I am posting this in hopes that we get a string of pictures ( that totally kick my butt for my lousy post) from some of the more successful Neptheid keepers (read mary, charles, danny from holland) in this thread. :bum:

 

[ivan1407]

I just visited a dutch forum where a guy accidently bought a dendro due to misinformation of the LFS. He got the advice to hang the dendro upside down and out of the light. He uses food from FM and it seems to work. Could it be so simple?

 

[mcox33]

My dendro is about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the 90 and I have 400 watt mh's and 260 watts of PC on each end of the tank as well as a 48 in T-5 24 watt that runs from one end to the other

Mine seems to like Light very well

 

[luvstns726]

Still eagerly awaiting Mary's pictures- andI shouldn't complain, as I have not posted any.

Here's what's happening now. I have my 450 gallon seven tank experimental setup, and have moved all the feeding organisms (several colonies of Tubastrea, a sea rod, and one pink dendro) into a 29 gallon. The dendro is, I think, about seven months old now- but I need to check dates on that, it may be way off. I have had two maxijet 1200s with little wavemakers on their outputs. There is a VERY slow flow- a trickle- into this tank, and then it overflows to another tank, then to a third refugium, then into the system with skimmer. The lights are kept off. I feed about a 50cent piece of mysis, about a 3/4 inch wedge of cyclopeez, and about five generous pinches of golden pearls every evening, taking about three hours to complete the feedings. Some of the food liquifies in the pumps. No phyto, but the system gets silica four drops twice daily, which keeps NSW values in the system, and there is a slight diatom bloom on the glass at times.

Recently I found very large bristle worms in the tank, at least one of which was inhabiting the rock with the dendro. ID is probably not a firewarm type and it may be incidental, however there is a lot of irritation to the dendro from this as well as other benthic crawlies.

So! I just added a wave2k to this tank- that makes about 5000 gallons/hour of wavemakers in about 25 gallons of water! The Tubastrea and Dendro love it. I've added a wrasse, and will add more fish to keep the pods down.

I definitely am impressed by how much better the dendro looks with this 200x tank turnover! I have not seen one "revive" before.

I have just obtained a mesoscope. It looks to me as if the deflation that occurs after feeding in dendros may be related to inadequate water flow assisting with metabolism and elimination. I am going to scale up my dendro purchases and try again, and I still have the pink original one.

I am suspecting that really great water flow, and golden pearls, may be the trick for me...I have another setup (55 over another 55 sump) that is going online now to look at recycling approaches.

 

[Herpervet]

Whoa!

As official (OK not so official) pic Natzi. I declare No soup for you until you post numerous pics of your system!

 

[Jens Kallmeyer]

HI there

This is a great thread, going strong for such a long time. Unfortunately I have to tell you that I will break down my tank on Labour day weekend as I am moving back to Germany later this year. All of the Dendros and one Sclero already went to Germany on my last trip, fortunately this was before the London incidents. I would not want to open the bags and take a sip just to prove that the stuff isn't explosive.
The Dendros are in good care now, let's hope they make it until I can get a tank up and running.
I will be follwing this thread, with or without corals.
@luvstns726: Pictures PLEASE!!!, 250 times turnover may be the new record, hey you SPS freaks take that!

Keep them growing!

Jens

 

[charles matthews]

OK, I owe you guys pictures. I think Mary is just saying that to get off the hot seat. Actually, since I now have a mesoscope, it would be nice to get pics of the polyps feeding with different regimens- maybe post these to one of the Web video services? I'll try- it really would be great to start a working video sharing on their behaviors.

Jens- I wonder if your German abilities extend to a way to interview Peter Wilkins about this? His keeping of dendros is getting to be an urban legend- an update and pics from his reported seven year experience would be interesting. And- it should be confirmed and published! Until he speaks up, we have to assume that Mary on the American team holds the world record.

I'm doing polyp counts on the pink dendro. I think it's about seven months old, and appears to be reviving under the higher flow. There is outstanding polyp extension; it does collapse after heavy feeding of zooplankton substitutes, and the polyps look bloated, like stuffed Tubastrea. I haven't seen it increase the percent of time under expansion. I'm having some start and stop problems with the wave2k which should iron out soon and I'll have some longer time observation in this flow regime. I like the look of the stuffed polyps, though.

Jens- your lecture on the web, available in German, is outstanding- I've read it many times, although I don't speak a word of the language. How long have you kept yours now?

-Charles

 

[mcox33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8013337#post8013337 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by charles matthews


Jens- I wonder if your German abilities extend to a way to interview Peter Wilkins about this? His keeping of dendros is getting to be an urban legend- an update and pics from his reported seven year experience would be interesting. And- it should be confirmed and published! Until he speaks up, we have to assume that Mary on the American team holds the world record.
-Charles

Come on guys I am not trying to make this more than it is. Obviously I got lucky with the dendro, but I don't have a clue why. So please no talk of world records.

 

[Kent E]

So far it's been three months since I bought the strawberry dendro and it's looking great, I think. Actually, I don't know what it should look like but it does look very nice. It seems larger, and has many more branches to it. I think because of the flow it is growing thicker rather than higher. It also seems to be cleaner looking than when I first got it. What I mean, is that the red seems brighter and the white, whiter.

I don't know what the average longevity is, but I'm guessing I'm nearing the "make or break" point. By the way, not too long after I picked up the strawberry I picked up a simular black coral that seems to be doing well.

 

[charles matthews]

Some thoughts about water movement. There are some suggestions in the literature that somewhere in the range of 6 to 30 inches/second may be a natural environment. In a 2 foot 30 gallon tank, if the water were rotating, then half of it (15 gallons) would travel 24 inches in four seconds. That's 15 gallons every four seconds, or 450x tank turnover/hour. That assumes the current is evenly distributed through the tank.

The natural environment is also likely, even if laminar currents are predominant, to have some diurnal reversals or periods of higher flow.

One might overcome this problem by using a very small aquarium- as I am doing- or accelerating the water only around the dendros. The trouble with just working with a single pump aimed optimally, or via the overflow method of locating them close to a pump intake, is that there may not be enough flow in the tank generally to keep food suspended.

From what little I have been able to find out about their internal anatomy, they only have miccrovilli around the pharynx. Therefore, the only mechanisms they have for digestive transport would be osmotic pressure, and external pulsation from water flow pushing against one way valves. I suspect they need to "rock" in the current a bit in order to digest. The so-called "pharyngeal block" of Wittig may relate to inadequate current for digestive transport, opening the question up again of to what extent they use phytoplankton.

At one point, I thought that they didn't do well with surge/wavemakers. However, now I have to say I'm not sure about that point. (Comments?)-

I'm going to continue exploring the higher range of flows. As soon as they are available, I'm going to get the VorTech pumps, and put four of them on a 55 with the timer.

Also, the high flow keeps the diatom growths stripped from the walls and suspended (I dose silica)...

Charles

 

[charles matthews]

Mary: a few more questions, please!

1) You wrote about using ozone. Have you done this consistently over the almost three years you have kept the dendro? Could this be an explanation?

2) You noted that you feed brine shrimp. I presume you are using the frozen baby brine shrimp by Hikari- not frozen adult brine shrimp? Have you fed this virtually daily for years, enough to perhaps explain your success?

-Charles

 

["Umm fish?"]

That's 15 gallons every four seconds, or 450x tank turnover/hour. That assumes the current is evenly distributed through the tank.

Have you thought about trying to grow one of these inside a recirculating skimmer (no bubbles, of course)? That would certainly keep food suspended, hopefully to be eaten.

 

[mcox33]

I cheated, and quoted, again. So I can add the answers in without having to take time to type the question as well. However,I am taking out all the quote information. This is the questions posted by charles matthews

Mary: a few more questions, please!

1) You wrote about using ozone. Have you done this consistently over the almost three years you have kept the dendro? Could this be an explanation?

I have been using ozone for at least a couple of years. Since one of our club members did a group buy on them for the whole club. I got the ozone maker very small unit and it has run on and off. I have ran it for months at a time and I have left it turned off for months at a time. (I forgot I had turned it off)

2) You noted that you feed brine shrimp. I presume you are using the frozen baby brine shrimp by Hikari- not frozen adult brine shrimp? Have you fed this virtually daily for years, enough to perhaps explain your success?

Yes I have always feed mostly brine shrimp and I have always mixed and matched and just feed a cube from several different ones or use a couple of this one this time and another the next. No schedule, no reason, Just what ever I felt like I wanted to feed at the time. I think the sucess might be the recipe our local expert came up with. I know everything in my tank looks better when I feed his recipe (tweaked by me of course, I add whatever liquid food I have on hand to the liquid I strain from the flake. ) But truthfully I usually end up dump a good bit of the flake mush in as well. The fish seem to like it.