New Fish Store

[Fat Surgeon]

Well, there it is folks. Fishaholicwife has all the answers.

AZReef, I understand most people will pay for a nice fraq, as I would as well. However, I do disagree with selling frags. I also have thousands tied up in my tank like many people do. If I ever let out my secret as to what I do with my frags, well...lets just say perhaps someone like FishWife would probably go insane, so it's better left unsaid. And no, I dont toss 'em down the toilet I'm sure they get quality homes. Who knows FishWife, maybe you have one of my frags in your tank right now. Wouldnt that be ironic.

And Zach, I to am sorry this thread headed in this direction.

FishWife, out of respect for Fishaholic I will not report you to the mod's for your out of control keyboard temper. I wont even chastise you for it. However, in the future, I would be very very careful about what you type about people, specifically how you refer to me while using your CAP LOCKS. If you cannot remember what you said, please re-read your post. While you are at it, go back to my previous post(s) to get a better understanding of what I meant as far as helping new people into the hobby so they don't get sticker shock. If it is to difficult for you, I will do my best to come down to a more clear level that can be easily understood. Please do try to control yourself. I wouldnt blame Phlipper if he flips out and reports you for what you said about him. :eek2:

 

[fishaholicWife]

This is so childish. I'm gonna tell ! If you feel the need by all means do so. What I don't understand is how Fatsurgeon and phlipper can come on here knock down a persons few point and nothing is said. I come on here and tell my feelings (and yes, I cap lock it to stress my feelings) and I get threatened ! I did not call you names. I said you were nuts. That is a figure of speach meaning that I felt that way of thinking (that everyone should give away their stuff for free) was a crazy thought. I did not call you retarded, I said the situation was retarded. Please read again. And telling Phlipper about his anticcs was not calling him a name either. I was talking about his attitude on everyone else who does not favor a certain LFS. So you have your oppinions on a good fish store and so do I, why threaten me.

 

[fishaholicWife]

I'm done on this thread. Knock your selves out !

 

[kscrimshaw]

From what I can see, it looks like people are spending more time knocking each other than any LFS. Why can't anyone seem to post their opinions, be they positive or negative, without being attacked? And on the flip side, you can't expect to post your opinions without expecting someone to disagree with you. And JUST BECAUSE THEY DISAGREE DOESN"T MEAN THEY ARE ATTACKING YOU!!!

Everyone is just taking themselves way too seriously. fishwife is absolutely right - we should all be able to state our opinions without being attacked or threatened. In the future, if you take personal offense to a particular post, can you please address that person in a PM or email? And if it's not about you, just let it be!

 

[cerreta]

Well-said Karen.

Surgeon, I wanted to comment about the frag selling. When we conduct our occasional get-togethers, many people sell their frags at these events. This works better than trading, and I highly prefer the sale/auction. The problem with trading is trying to find out what everyone has available and sending multiple emails to conduct such a transaction. This is very time-consuming. By selling, one can liquidate all the stuff they don't have room for, and use the cash to buy a bunch of other things they are looking for. This gives the most freedom to select what you want from others, rather than restricting your options by having to trade with someone who does not really have anything you want.

Furthermore, what about those people who don't have anything to frag. Does that mean they should not partake? Allowing them to buy an aquacultured coral for cheap is friendly and fun. Most of the things sold at the sale/auction events go for $2 to $15 with some more desirable stuff for over $20.

Everyone has the right to make his or her own decisions. However, I would rather see you trade your stuff with other hobbyists rather than trade them for store credit at the LFS, (which is what I am guessing you do with your frags that get "quality homes"). Besides, you say:

I do disagree with selling frags.

. Isn't this what you are dong by selling them to a LFS for store credit? Or, maybe you just give them to the store. In either case, it is your right to choose this, but realize these corals are being sold for retail once they are given to the LFS. Some of the quality stores in Phoenix will mark these corals as AC (aquacultured) or Trade-Ins and sell them at reduced rates, but this practice does not exists in Tucson. So, I find it difficult to understand how you "disagree with selling frags" when you are guilty of the same. The only difference (again I assume you get some cash or store credit in return) is that you just sell to professionals rather than local hobbyists.

 

[Fat Surgeon]

Well said Scott, however your missing the mark. Let me first clarify by saying that some of the good quality homes that get these frags are not being sold by me to the LFS, nor do I get store credit for anything I donate.
I have had many people I know, and even people I dont know, get started in this hobby. I have helped by donating frags, LR and sometimes even equipement. IMO, if you are looking to buy everything super cheap, than this hobby(or any hobby for that matter) should not be undertaken. As I said before, things are priced pretty high in Tucson and the shop owners would do well to lower their prices a tad. I am fortunate enough that does not apply to me, but I am trying to look out for the folks who want to be in this hobby and can't afford some of the higher priced items. And before I get slammed on this point, no I have never, or will ever donate a completed tank to any single individual. Helping people out is something I enjoy doing, especially getting people started in a hobby that I truly enjoy. If you need to make money on your corals and fish to continue your hobby, so be it. I'll never bash you. I may tell you I think i'ts wrong, but i am simply stating my own opinion, as some of you have so eloquently said I have the right to do. Never once in any of my posts did I tell anyone that they were not entitled to thier opinion. In fact, I respect you for it. Number one, it shows the diversity of people we have and it also weeds out the people I would like to donate to and talk reef with. So far, I have been impressed only by a few, but for the most part, I have an even better understanding of why we dont have a tight knit group. Lack of vision and proper leadership is what slows our reefcommunity growth down in Tucson. If you dont believe me, look around you wherever you go. Wherever there is no guidance and leadership, failure is sure to pop its head up over and over again. Just read the thread about LFS quarantine started by Tucson's very own Saltwater tribal leader and his grand council. Need I say more? :crazy1:

 

[owsi]

lol

 

[Satori]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7603274#post7603274 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fat Surgeon
Wherever there is no guidance and leadership, failure is sure to pop its head up over and over again.

There has been no failure here that I'm aware of. Every time we've gotten together it's been a huge success.

 

[owsi]

And if I was "Tucson's very own Saltwater tribal leader" , I would start up the old monthly shop tours and there would be only one Tucson lfs, at present on that list. When the weather cools we will do another big one, should get 30 to 40 without leadership egos involved. Did you make the last one Fat Surgeon?

 

[cerreta]

Thanks Surgeon for the comments and clarification.

I guess I have the opinion that you think people are making money selling frags and this may be competing with product sold at various LFSs.

If this is true than it is a fair point. However, to my knowlege, no one that attends the events is selling their stuff in order to profit from it. If they are, it is a foolish place to come, because stuff sells for real cheap.

Likewise, I recently sold a bunch of corals as did Gary, to make room for our new tanks. Niether of us do it to make money, but rather to clear space and to gain some money, to turn around and purchase more corals or equipment. I hope one day to be in your position where money spent in the hobby is a non-issue, but for most of here, it is a primary concern.

BTW, didn't you come to one of these events, I can't recall if we met.

 

[Fat Surgeon]

MSM, perhaps failure was to harsh of a word. Sorry for being so rash. I meant no direction.

Your welcome Ceretta, but let me clarify further.

I dont believe the stores feel as though frag sellers are a threat to their business at all. At least not the ones I talk to. It would be foolish for any of the store owners to think that way, as they have a much higher turn around on livestock and can afford to house more species than any size tank you guys could muster up. This is not a derogatory statement, just a fair one. Does anyone have more than 1000 gallons running in their home at the same time? If there is, congratulations and my apologies.

If you make very little money selling coral, then why sell at all? Makes little sense to me, but then again, perhaps I think on a more giving level.

Your recollection would serve you well Cerreta as I have never had the pleasure of meeting you or anyone else here. I think I'd like to meet Phlipper and AzReefKeeper someday though. Business people usually understand each other better.

And Owsi, at first I thought you had a sense of humor. Don't you mean a turnout of 30-40 with a possibility of no leadership skills? Perhaps you may have the ego and are afraid of what a club would mean for your standing. Could there be someone out there in Salt Land that has more knowledge and experience than the Tribal Leader? My guess is that there is. BTW, clubs I have been to in Southern California have no dues and no egos. Just a bunch of great people who get together and talk reef and are willing to help out any new people and build up the LFS storeowners. How long have you been keeping saltwater? I would think with the amount of time you claim to have under your belt, you would be better inclined to understand how to make one work without the egos, dues and so forth. Not only that, if you have been keeping saltwater for as long as you claim to, by my calculations you should be anywhere from 45-50 years or older. Don't guys our age usually stop putting down other people and relax? Or maybe that's how the term "grumpy old men" came into being. Glad I'm not one of those. I'll be waiting for an intelligent reply. Will I get one?

 

[Satori]

Surgeon, you've made my next point. Like minded people band together. That's the way it is in any community, and that's cool.

The Phoenix forums may seem more organized and civil at first glance, but keep in mind that Phoenix has a much larger pool of reef keepers. Obviously Phoenix has just as diverse a community of opinions as Tucson, but there's so many like minded people that a bunch of them can come together in one forum and give the image of unity. It doesn't have anything to do with leadership. There are tons of people up there who would gladly start a new forum with you and phlipper because they feel exactly the same way. Don't get me wrong, that's cool, that's what it's all about.

 

[owsi]

Fat Surgeon, You and phlipper just bring out the best in me. I had not mentioned hector or his whatever since the last time, many months ago when phlipper got me started. I did not put hector down in this thread till phlipper praised his best butdy and was upset that someone had the audacity to say SouthWest was having a 25% off sale for a while. And yes I still feel this town can support another Reef Store. I see Rob heading toward taking over the East market, (by your own admission) and probably most of Tucson if no one else comes along. I am older then your guess, but don't consider myself grumpy, but jerks will not go unanswered. I do not by any stretch consider myself an expert, this hobby has changed way to fast for anyone to be all knowing. As for your comment "Don't you mean a turnout of 30-40 with a possibility of no leadership skills" what a stupid statement! We don't fit your mold, good go see phlipper and hector

 

[Fat Surgeon]

At least I recieved one intelligent reply back. Thank you MSM, and yes you are right, perhaps this would not be the place for me to talk reef with anyone who is currently in your group. You are absolutely right about like minded people. Arent different people one of the things in life that make the world go around? Good luck to you MSM, you seem like a pretty decent guy. Maybe you dont quite fit the mold of the others here as well. Perhaps we can have the pleasure of running into each other at a LFS someday.

 

[lovelylinda]

What's wrong with selling frags to each other? The seller is just raising money to spend on salt water stuff anyway- probably @ a store. It's not like we'll put those $ into the college fund. we're just supporting our habit.

 

[owsi]

Ignore them (philpper84 and Fat Surgeon), they are just two of hectors minions trying to stir up trouble.

 

[kscrimshaw]

I'm with you Linda. I don't think anyone is under the misconception that anyone "makes" money off selling frags. All they are doing is defraying some of their costs. And I might add, helping people like me who are new to the hobby or trying to stock their tanks without taking out a second mortgage.

A good part of my tank is stocked with frags that were either purchased from or donated by fellow reefers. When Scott did his tank changeover, several of us bought a bunch of stuff from him to help defray his costs, and then he turned around and bought a bunch of SPS from one of the SV guys (can't remember who!) who was breaking down his tank. As far as I'm concerned, this was a great way for all of us to help each other out, and is indicative of a successful, tight-knit group.

I should add that though I did buy several items from Scott (at greatly reduced prices), he also threw in several frags of other corals just because he thought I'd like them. If that's not in the spirit of good hobbyism, I don't know what is.

(By the way Scott, they are all doing great, and the BTA has already split! I'll have to get pictures up soon.)

 

[majestic sea life]

when i have my reefer party/meeting ( no pun intended) I do not want philpper84 or Fat Surgeon at it. Its going to be a house warming party/meeting at my new house. For ppl to have a good time and not start crap. So just giving you guys a heads up but dont have a date yet. Scott can be the bouncer jk

~Brian

 

[Fat Surgeon]

Ah Majestic, dont worry about me coming to your reefer party. I doubt there is anything you or anyone in the Tribal leaders group could teach me anyhow. Have a great time and when you need saltwater advice, dont be afraid to ask myself or head down to Hector's store. If you feel the need to have a bouncer, then the crap must fly at these get togethers anyway.

Owsi, or can i call you John now? Degrading others is what you do best. You know the old adage, we attract others of similar intellect and mental attributes. Hence, this is why you and I would never get along. Now if you'll cut the crap about me, Hector, Phlipper and anyone else that mentions something positive about Hector, I'll cut the crap about you. Keep going and I'll do my best to discredit you. End of story.

LovelyLinda, thank you for an intelligent response. It's nice to have constructive criticism instead of degredation

 

[majestic sea life]

hey i shop at hectors and get along with him. I just dont like ppl that start crap.