wayne in norway
New member
I can see what you're describing. But it strikes me as very complicated compared to a single layer with a vigorous flow over the top a la 'dsb in a bucket'.
New Nitrate theory
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
It might be more complicated than a normal bucket, but still simple enough to make. At least it will be an effective use of the total volume of sand unlike most buckets. My drawing was an extreme example with 5 layers to take advantage of the supposed thin layers of substrate this thread is advocating, you could just do 2 layers if you wanted which would not be much harder than making a single plenum with a water feed pipe.
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wayne in norway
New member
But if the flow is vigorous then you are making use of the sand volume, or at least more of it. Also the upside of the bucket is the higher the velocity, the more often the bucket 'sees' the tank water. For what you propose the water velocity would need to be far lower and so it would see the tank water less often. Also you aregoing to have to be very careful with regulating flow - too little and not much will get done, too much and you'll just put all the sand in an aerobic state. A buckets simple - the only limit is the sand being washed out.
I don't see people recommending light, living creatures and detritus build up in a coil denitrator for it to work. Coil denitrators etc work fine without carbon dosing so why would that be any different to a clean sand bed? posted byDennis RB
A coil denitrator wouldn't work if the coil was filled with sand which would obstruct the movement of the water and the material in it.
Advective flow is what moves water up and down through a sand bed along with dissolved organics,inorganic nutrients and particulate matter. Some diffusion also occurs.
Advection occurs due to a variation in water pressure as the flowing water encounters obstacles at the surface even as fine as a sand grain . Rocks and other obstacles in the flow can enhance it causing an upwelling. For example, in an illlustration in"The Reef Aquarium 3",Sprung and Delbeek, cite a model wherein advection over the sand bed moves the water down into the bed by only about 4 cm. When a 10cm rock is place in the flow , an upwelling occurs in the area of the rock which pulls the water down as much as 10cm.
So, whatever design you use it's about moving water and organic( for a carbon source) as well as inorganic nutrient matter and doing so at a rate strong enough to move the organic matter to the area where heterotrophic bacteria thrive while slow enough to ensure that an anoxic area is maintained.
A coil denitrator wouldn't work if the coil was filled with sand which would obstruct the movement of the water and the material in it.
Advective flow is what moves water up and down through a sand bed along with dissolved organics,inorganic nutrients and particulate matter. Some diffusion also occurs.
Advection occurs due to a variation in water pressure as the flowing water encounters obstacles at the surface even as fine as a sand grain . Rocks and other obstacles in the flow can enhance it causing an upwelling. For example, in an illlustration in"The Reef Aquarium 3",Sprung and Delbeek, cite a model wherein advection over the sand bed moves the water down into the bed by only about 4 cm. When a 10cm rock is place in the flow , an upwelling occurs in the area of the rock which pulls the water down as much as 10cm.
So, whatever design you use it's about moving water and organic( for a carbon source) as well as inorganic nutrient matter and doing so at a rate strong enough to move the organic matter to the area where heterotrophic bacteria thrive while slow enough to ensure that an anoxic area is maintained.
redtop03
moved slow
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14627525#post14627525 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Capn, I think you are correct, it's the guys that got the bonus checks.
I am submitting this picture of my gobi to the government. I may have to sell his bottle home to make ends meet causing him to be homeless. Poor little guy.
Paul B,your aquascape is unique(at least to the aquarium world,probably looks natural where you dive though),but I like it
If they take his home,let me know,I'll see if I can send him a wine bottle,you may hafta help him with the Wine(don't want to make a homeless wino out of him)
:lol: Well, much of what we think we know about maintaining healthy aquarium water comes from the waste treatment industry. So your description might be a good thing.<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14991728#post14991728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Willie, "unique" is one of the nicer terms I have heard to describe my aquascaping. Some people describe it with some human excriment terms.
:lol:
Seriously, I do love the look of your tank; reminds me of fishing in Jamaica Bay. :lol:
Paul B
Premium Member
There are a lot of bottles in there, maybe 10. The majority of them came from the Long Island Sound. There is a lot of history in the Sound and many of my dives were off Huckelberry Island between Queens and the Bronx. It is a tiny Island only about one or two hunderd yards long but during Prohibition it was a big party place. They had wild gin parties there and when they used to see the police coming, they would throw the boot leg Gin in the water around the Island. In the seventees almost no one dove, but I did, so we picked up a lot of old bottles.
Some of the bottles are new, I just broke them, and added some cement to age them.
This picture was taken right near Huckelberry Island, it is Execution Lighthouse which is also full of history. It was commissioned by George Washington and was a great place for artifacts. We found some round bottomed bottles here which were used for ballast in old sailing ships. Those ships had no weighted keel like modern sailboats and weights needed to be added as ballast to sail them and counter balance the weight of the sails. When the ships took on cargo to bring back to England, the ballast would be thrown overboard or left on shore.
The bottles after a few years in my tank, this was a new beer bottle
redtop03
moved slow
Paul B,
regardless of what we think about it,you like it and your critters seem very pleased with it....thats all that matters anyway....if I can't say something positive about something,I usually keep my mouth shut....a lot less arguing that way.
what do you do for the sharp edges on the bottles when you break them,to keep the fish from getting hurt?
some of those bottles are artwork in them selves,I have considered adding a few to my tank,that gobi is just too cute in there
regardless of what we think about it,you like it and your critters seem very pleased with it....thats all that matters anyway....if I can't say something positive about something,I usually keep my mouth shut....a lot less arguing that way.
what do you do for the sharp edges on the bottles when you break them,to keep the fish from getting hurt?
some of those bottles are artwork in them selves,I have considered adding a few to my tank,that gobi is just too cute in there
redtop03
moved slow
that makes sense,a dremmel is one of the best tools ever invented,the first tank I drilled,I used a dremmel and 2 glass etching bits,took a few hours but it worked,now I use a glass hole saw and drill,15 to 20 minutes
as the cap'n knows,I have a tendency to stray off subject and ramble on,I'm gonna hush now about the bottles,as I've gotten us way of topic here,thank you for the info
as the cap'n knows,I have a tendency to stray off subject and ramble on,I'm gonna hush now about the bottles,as I've gotten us way of topic here,thank you for the info
Aquarist007
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14995843#post14995843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redtop03
that makes sense,a dremmel is one of the best tools ever invented,the first tank I drilled,I used a dremmel and 2 glass etching bits,took a few hours but it worked,now I use a glass hole saw and drill,15 to 20 minutes
as the cap'n knows,I have a tendency to stray off subject and ramble on,I'm gonna hush now about the bottles,as I've gotten us way of topic here,thank you for the info
one of the other reasons that Paul has mentioned previously is that these bottles could be providing an anoxic area in the tank other then a dsb and thus supporting anerobic denitrators.
redtop03
moved slow
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14996094#post14996094 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
one of the other reasons that Paul has mentioned previously is that these bottles could be providing an anoxic area in the tank other then a dsb and thus supporting anerobic denitrators.
cool,I missed that somehow,I guess with the water inside the bottle not being aerated as much,it could be possible
Paul B
Premium Member
About 38 years
It comes in cycles, sometimes I get it every few years and it goes away for a couple of years. I use a lot of NSW from the Long Island Sound with mud and all sorts of stuff I really should not put in there. The tank is an experiment and was never meant to be a showpiece.
This picture is about 15 or 20 years old, see the algae? I haven't had any hair algae in maybe four years now.
I may not get it anymose since I installed that algae trough.
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