NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[PowermanKW]

I'm with you on that. It seems like a whole bunch of backups and failsafes and blah blah blah. I think I'll be sticking to Herbie, because I've seen non-RR tanks in this thread working it. My backup is just going to be a 2" bulkhead with a strainer likely reduced to 1.5" or 1.25" and free flow (I've already got the hole, so it is what it is). Main pipe I'm thinking 1.25" because I know my pump is pushing ~750/800GPH and I'd really like to have it on free flow. I also plan on having a single piece of black acrylic on a diagonal as my overflow box (or triangle). Any reason nobody does a diagonal overflow? I've never seen one, is there something that is does to flow, take up too much space or what? Thanks!

Is your pump doing that at height? A 1.25 can certainly flow 800 gph. One thing to keep in mind though, you need enough grate on your overflow to flow that much. I opened up the piping on mine to 1" cause I wanted to get the most flow...well I had too much. My grate could not flow it and backed up until it went over the top. A AGA rates their 1" overflow at 600 gph. I actually think a 1" bulkhead can flwo more, but they limit tit to that I think to their overflow. I saw a thing once of how much certain overflows could flow per inch. Anyway.... you will need enough inches and big enough grates to get the flwo you want.

 

[PowermanKW]

Does anyone tie their emergency drain to the main drain before the sump? If so, are there noise issues coming out of the emergency drain? Do you tie the two together before or after the gate valve on the main drain?

I've got a basement sump with two holes drilled in the floor of the first floor (one drain, one return), and would prefer not to have to drill a third hole for the emergency drain. That's why I want to tie my emergency drain with the main.

No, it does not work that way.

 

[jthomps123]

Herbie and Bean use the same principles, but the Herbie is more suited for pre drilled reef tanks with overflow boxes. If you are going to start drilling holes in the back wall, then a Bean is more practical. 3 holes drilled as big as you like with a coast to coast overflow.

Even a modified Herbie with two equal sized holes would be good, but you need to partition them off with a weir like a coast to coast or some sort of overflow box. A hole drilled in the bottom of a tank has the ability to drain to the bottom of the tank.

On my new build I used two back drilled stand pipes of the same size, one above the water line, one below for the siphon. What is the point of a third drain is what im asking?

 

[PowermanKW]

On my new build I used two back drilled stand pipes of the same size, one above the water line, one below for the siphon. What is the point of a third drain is what im asking?

In the Bean it is redundancy and fail safe. One for main regulated drain. One for open channel drainage. One for emergency. You just have to ask your self what would it take to clog 3" worth of drain to get the emergency to kick in.

 

[NaClCrocodile]

On my new build I used two back drilled stand pipes of the same size, one above the water line, one below for the siphon. What is the point of a third drain is what im asking?

On the bean, it's a double backup I think.

Powerman, that makes sense. Is there anywhere I should look for flow rate/inch on overflows? I mean, I could always reduce it if it's slight. I was thinking of doing 1/4" spaces and 1/4" teeth, but it sounds like this may not be enough...

Heck, it might just be easier to be happy with 700GPH and call it a day, not worry about messing with the overflow too much. You've been a great help and I'm sure I'll be back. Thanks!

 

[PowermanKW]

On the bean, it's a double backup I think.

Powerman, that makes sense. Is there anywhere I should look for flow rate/inch on overflows? I mean, I could always reduce it if it's slight. I was thinking of doing 1/4" spaces and 1/4" teeth, but it sounds like this may not be enough...

Heck, it might just be easier to be happy with 700GPH and call it a day, not worry about messing with the overflow too much. You've been a great help and I'm sure I'll be back. Thanks!

I can't remember where I saw it, also on my AGA the teeth are pretty small. The 1/4 inch cut is pretty common. I'm sure it will flow plenty. I just didn't want you to try and make it as small as possible to save space and cover your pipes with a 4 inch piece. I'm sure any of the acrylic tank/overflow companies could give you a figure. 800 gph is not crazy, just don't know a reasonable width to tell you to keep the water in the teeth.

 

[jthomps123]

In the Bean it is redundancy and fail safe. One for main regulated drain. One for open channel drainage. One for emergency. You just have to ask your self what would it take to clog 3" worth of drain to get the emergency to kick in.

What is open channel drainage? Is that one a siphon also? Else how is it silent?

Im still missing why I would want more than the 2 drains I installed. Is more than one drain ever in use during normal operation in the BeanAnimal drain?

Even if you had total control of your drilling and plumbing why would I want the 3 drains over the simplicity of the Herbie drain? My main drain is so closed down anyway via the gate valve that my unobstructed emergency could probably handle 4x what my return pump can even deliver.

 

[das75]

On the bean, it's a double backup I think.

Powerman, that makes sense. Is there anywhere I should look for flow rate/inch on overflows? I mean, I could always reduce it if it's slight. I was thinking of doing 1/4" spaces and 1/4" teeth, but it sounds like this may not be enough...

Heck, it might just be easier to be happy with 700GPH and call it a day, not worry about messing with the overflow too much. You've been a great help and I'm sure I'll be back. Thanks!

The Overflow Capacity Calculator is a Excel spreadsheet to find the water height up a slotted weir. Variables are wide and number of openings and it calculates height based on different flow (gph).

 

[PowermanKW]

What is open channel drainage? Is that one a siphon also? Else how is it silent?

Im still missing why I would want more than the 2 drains I installed. Is more than one drain ever in use during normal operation in the BeanAnimal drain?

Even if you had total control of your drilling and plumbing why would I want the 3 drains over the simplicity of the Herbie drain? My main drain is so closed down anyway via the gate valve that my unobstructed emergency could probably handle 4x what my return pump can even deliver.

You need to go back to the beginning of this thread, before the split, and read why things are done the way they are. Then Read Bean Animals write up and read why things are done the way they are. Then you can make a overflow that suits your needs.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

 

[PowermanKW]

The Overflow Capacity Calculator is a Excel spreadsheet to find the water height up a slotted weir. Variables are wide and number of openings and it calculates height based on different flow (gph).

Very nice.

 

[The REeFFers]

OK so Im about to set up my tank and Im looking into what way to drain the system. I really like the simplicity of this system along with not having to worry about the noise, but I don't have a extra drain. The system is about 100 gallons of water volume. I understand that the system's main flaw is the main drain can become blocked so I want to put a guard on it like this image along with a top on my over box. what do you guys think of my plan ? or should i try something else ? like a durso

 

[PowermanKW]

Nothing wrong with your plan. A screen of some sort it a must as far as I'm concerned. I had to take out my "knock outs" on my overflow box to get more flow. You know the little peices for where the return line goes on top of the box. Well my screen was a PVC pipe drilled with 3/8s holes. A cernith snail got in. I opened my gate valve to flush it and out poped a shell into the sump.

Anyway, put some screen over those holes and been good every since. You needs screens, but after that no real sweat. And I would not run without a emergency either, but with screens and emergency I sleep just fine at night.

 

[The REeFFers]

I wish I had room for an emergency but I planed on running a durso at first but this look 100 times better and quieter. My return is drilled in the side of the over flow box to make it look really clean. ya I plan on putting alot of screen to make sure im safe.

 

[PowermanKW]

I wish I had room for an emergency but I planed on running a durso at first but this look 100 times better and quieter. My return is drilled in the side of the over flow box to make it look really clean. ya I plan on putting alot of screen to make sure im safe.

So you need a main drain ans an emergency drain and you run your returns over the back of the tank.

So are you saying you are going to run without the emergency drain?

 

[jthomps123]

You need to go back to the beginning o

f this thread, before the split, and read why things are done the way they are. Then Read Bean Animals write up and read why things are done the way they are. Then you can make a overflow that suits your needs.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

Ok I just read beans writeup and understand the concept, just not the point. How is having to install 3 drains more practical than two?

I see no point in beans glorified herbie drain. If I was installing a Caflo I would still use a basic herbie drain.

 

[The REeFFers]

So you need a main drain ans an emergency drain and you run your returns over the back of the tank.

So are you saying you are going to run without the emergency drain?

YA I'm just going to run one drain with a good mesh guard

or should i just go with a durso ?

 

[PowermanKW]

Ok I just read beans writeup and understand the concept, just not the point. How is having to install 3 drains more practical than two?

I see no point in beans glorified herbie drain. If I was installing a Caflo I would still use a basic herbie drain.

Nobody said the point was to be practical.... the point is 100% fail safe overflow, and three drains accomplishes that.... bar none. The Bean write up is a good one for explaining overflows and how to make them silent. He accomplishes that with a 100% fool proof setup that will NEVER fail.

I like a modified Herbie too. Instead of using the RR drains, doing a custom and not using the 3rd drain is fine by me. Espesially if you mde your emergency bigger than your main and used as a open channel as well. I would sleep fine.

However, the Herbie needs a overflow box like a RR tank. That deep well of water regulates flow. If you just had a 4" calfo it would be hard to keep air out and everything full. Hence the Bean siphon on the Calfo overflow. You could still use a Calfo Coast to Coast and a deep internal overflow, or even external. But it would have to have some depth to give some stability in my mind.

 

[PowermanKW]

YA I'm just going to run one drain with a good mesh guard

or should i just go with a durso ?

If you go through this thread, you will find some that run without an emergency. Personally.... I would never do it. One thing is that you have to have a perfect constant water level in your sump. Any flucuation fluctuates the flow an you will back up your tank. My ATO does keep my sump level damn near perfect, yet I still have small fluctuations. No big deal, the Herbie handles it.

If you are not going to run an emergency, then you need to run the overflow box lower to ensure you never need more. That you never get to that imaginary emergency drain that is not there. Well if the water in the overflow falls more thans say an inch or so it starts making noise. so it won't be silent. My overflow box fluctuates less than an inch and every now and then creeps over the emergency drain.

your best bet is to run a durso till you can set up a proper Herbie.

 

[The REeFFers]

Ok so I have a ATO set up in place ( as shown)so that not an issues. Im almost 100% sure I read in Herbie's post that the extra drain should ALWAYS be dry and that if your extra over flow is getting water that there is something wrong with your system

Meaning that the ONLY reason so the extra over flow is if you get a snail.

and I dont know how a snail can get in there, with a lid on my overflow box and a guard on my drain.

Gaspare

 

[PowermanKW]

Ok so I have a ATO set up in place ( as shown)so that not an issues. Im almost 100% sure I read in Herbie's post that the extra drain should ALWAYS be dry and that if your extra over flow is getting water that there is something wrong with your system

Meaning that the ONLY reason so the extra over flow is if you get a snail.

and I dont know how a snail can get in there, with a lid on my overflow box and a guard on my drain.

Gaspare

I have a Tunze ATO and my sump level does not fluctuate more than 1/8 of an inch. Yet there are still fluctuations in my overflow. Minor, but they are there. The Herbie design accounts for that because as the level rises there is more head and it will flow more. But that does not change the fact that it will never be perfectly constant.

Some people use the emergency for added regulation. I don't. However, my emergency does kick in from time to time just a trickle. But a quart a minute over 8 hours can equal an overflowing tank. I'm telling you, it is more than possible and it has nothing to do with snails. Grates do get clogged up with stuff. Algae for one. Overflow boxes do grow algae and it can happen. Also, like I said, I keep my level in my overflow less than an inch from the top of the overflow. Any more and you will hear water fall noise. So you only have an inch to work with for it to be silent. That is not much wiggle room.

You would not be the first to run without an emergency drain, but IMO you are asking for trouble one day. The Herbie was setup to provide a silent overflow that is fail safe. You are completely removing the safety.