NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[PowermanKW]

What does that mean? Straight in my mind?

I hope nobody else here gets convinced that a Bean drain is "more practical" than a Herbie. Sorry, 2 drains are more practical than 3.

What is there not to get? Bean did not set out to make the most practical design ever. Was not even a consideration. The design itself does a ton of work 90% of reefers are not willing to do. Who ever said the Bean design is the most "practical"?

What bean is the most Fail safe silent design out there...bar none...period. Now if you don't think a third drain is needed...then don't use one. What I do know is that the Bean design is "more safe" than the Herbie. I'll leave it up to you to determine what "more" is. Adding a 4th and 5th drain onto a Bean is completely useless. You can't get "more" than 100% safe that the 3 drains provides.

The Herbie design acomplishes the same based on a RR tank which is what Herbie had to work with. Since 70% of this hobby probably has a RR tank and does not want to drill for a Bean..... I am more than confident claiming Herbie to be the most "practical" silent overflow around. I'm even comfortable saying it is 99% safe, which is plenty for me. Bean never intended to claim that title. Just don't get why you are so hung up on that word.

 

[jthomps123]

There is no siphon in the Herbie. It is nothing more than a simple drain.

No siphon?!?!?! What are you talking about?

 

[jthomps123]

What is there not to get? Bean did not set out to make the most practical design ever. Was not even a consideration. The design itself does a ton of work 90% of reefers are not willing to do. Who ever said the Bean design is the most "practical"?

What bean is the most Fail safe silent design out there...bar none...period. Now if you don't think a third drain is no needed...then don't use one. What I do know is that the Bean design is "more safe" that the Herbie. I'll leave it up to you to determine what "more" is. Adding a 4th and 5th drain onto a Bean is completely useless. You can't get "more" than 100% safe that the 3 drains provides.

The Herbie desing acomplishes the same based on a RR tank which is what Herbie had to work with. Since 70% of this hobby probably has a RR tank and does not want to drill for a Bean..... I am more than confident claiming Herbie to be the most "practical" silent overflow around. I'm even comfortable saying it is 99% safe, which is plenty for me. Bean never intended to claim that title. Just don't get why you are so hung up on that word.

YOU said it was more practical. And you still have not explained to me how the bean is more failsafe than a herbie.

 

[PowermanKW]

Oh... and the Herbie is not as fail safe as the Bean. Using my tank, the main drain goes on the original overflow drain. A 1" bulkhead. The emergency drain uses the old return line hole.... a 3/4" bulkhead. A 3/4 bulkhead can't flow the same amount as a 1" bulk head. If someone was to put out as much flow as possible, and only had the gate valve slightly closed, you could definitely be passed the amount the emergency drain can flow. So you are limted to a max flow rate of what the 3/4 inch emergency drain can handle. and it isn't going to be the same as the main drain in that it is a stand pipe and not submerged. So again, you are limited to how much can enter the emergency drain with 1-2-3 inches of water over it. If it creates a vortex and sucks air it is limited more.

The Bean has no such limitation. All three drains are 1.25-1.5 inch lines that can all flow a crap ton of water more than any reefer is going to supply with a pump. I would call that 100% safe

 

[teesquare]

I suppose "practical" needs definition......
In my case - and I studied both the Herbie and the Bean and built systems with the Herbie first -but on the most recent I went with Bean. Redundancy is not only practical - it may save me a beating by the wife:hammer:

In fact, I don't think I understand the resistance to drill ONE more hole, if it offers ONE more opportunity to prevent a flood.

BY the mechanics of how you calculate risk, one more pipe does not mean just one more overflow prevented. It would require a real calculation of the odds, once you have determined all of the factors conributing to the potential of an overflow of the tank into the floor!

I liked the BeanAnimal method well enough that I "one-upped" it:

The 2 on the upper/left side are siphons. I can drain well over 6000 gallons per hour- nearly silent - via these. They and the open channel are plumbed with 2'' Flex PVC - and 1-1/2'' fittings in the overflow. The emergency drain - furthest right/lower in the pic - is 2" fittings and pipe.

From my experience - having used BOTH ( anyone else here used both? just curious? - ) they both work, and work well. But I do prefer the Bean method as it does add safety margin that one does not get with the Herbie. Period.

So - if you haven't tried one or the other - scratch that - BOTH - then, try not to be such a harsh critic.

Besides - someone will come up with a newer better method by this time next year guys:twitch: - and you don't want to be labeled like the guys that swore that air-conditioning in a car would never fly.........

Time marches on - so does invention and technology.........

 

[PowermanKW]

No siphon?!?!?! What are you talking about?

A siphon lifts water in a short leg by using the weight of fluid in a long leg to move it. The Herbie is no such animal. The drain in the bottom of your bath tub is not a siphon, it is a drain. The Herbie is a drain. A full pipe is not a siphon, it is just a full pipe.

 

[PowermanKW]

Herbie and Bean use the same principles, but the Herbie is more suited for pre drilled reef tanks with overflow boxes. If you are going to start drilling holes in the back wall, then a Bean is more practical. 3 holes drilled as big as you like with a coast to coast overflow.

Even a modified Herbie with two equal sized holes would be good, but you need to partition them off with a weir like a coast to coast or some sort of overflow box. A hole drilled in the bottom of a tank has the ability to drain to the bottom of the tank.

The only reason I said that is because Herbie is for predrilled RR tanks. If you are going to go through the troble of drilling holes, then all bets are off and the sky is the limit. The Bean is all custom. You can do a custom Herbie I suppose, but then it isn't really a herbie in the sense of what he designed. It is a custom silent overflow working the the basic principles of a filled pipe makes no noise.

Then we got all crazy on what is so practical about a third drain. A third drain is not there for practicality, it is there for safety. If you want to make your own custom overflow, then you get to decide if it is needed or not.

 

[PowermanKW]

I suppose "practical" needs definition......
In my case - and I studied both the Herbie and the Bean and built systems with the Herbie first -but on the most recent I went with Bean. Redundancy is not only practical - it may save me a beating by the wife:hammer:

In fact, I don't think I understand the resistance to drill ONE more hole, if it offers ONE more opportunity to prevent a flood.

BY the mechanics of how you calculate risk, one more pipe does not mean just one more overflow prevented. It would require a real calculation of the odds, once you have determined all of the factors conributing to the potential of an overflow of the tank into the floor!

I liked the BeanAnimal method well enough that I "one-upped" it:

The 2 on the upper/left side are siphons. I can drain well over 6000 gallons per hour- nearly silent - via these. They and the open channel are plumbed with 2'' Flex PVC - and 1-1/2'' fittings in the overflow. The emergency drain - furthest right/lower in the pic - is 2" fittings and pipe.

From my experience - having used BOTH ( anyone else here used both? just curious? - ) they both work, and work well. But I do prefer the Bean method as it does add safety margin that one does not get with the Herbie. Period.

So - if you haven't tried one or the other - scratch that - BOTH - then, try not to be such a harsh critic.

Besides - someone will come up with a newer better method by this time next year guys:twitch: - and you don't want to be labeled like the guys that swore that air-conditioning in a car would never fly.........

Time marches on - so does invention and technology.........

That is some serious drainage!!!:eek1: Nice.

 

[teesquare]

I have no arguement with any of that Powerman!

And - O.K......you got me - I do suffer from an occasional bout of "diarrea of the wallet"

T

 

[PowermanKW]

I have no arguement with any of that Powerman!

And - O.K......you got me - I do suffer from an occasional bout of "diarrea of the wallet"

T

I would say so judging by your sig line.

 

[teesquare]

Yeah ( blush) ....I know - it would have been cheaper to get hooked on crack I suppose ( well - there *ARE* treatment centers for that!)

BTW - I started a build thread in the Large Reef Tanks section...called "Holy Reefer"...(18 holes in the tank.)

Come on by and comment, critique, and so on!

T

 

[jthomps123]

The only reason I said that is because Herbie is for predrilled RR tanks. If you are going to go through the troble of drilling holes, then all bets are off and the sky is the limit. The Bean is all custom. You can do a custom Herbie I suppose, but then it isn't really a herbie in the sense of what he designed. It is a custom silent overflow working the the basic principles of a filled pipe makes no noise.

Then we got all crazy on what is so practical about a third drain. A third drain is not there for practicality, it is there for safety. If you want to make your own custom overflow, then you get to decide if it is needed or not.

Herbie is not 'only' for reef ready tanks. Nor was it ever intended to only be used as such. It was a plumbing method that allowed for silent drainage with a single emergency drain.

The simple fact is the most practical drain, even if you are drilling your own setup, is to use a herbie with a single emergency that can handle the complete flow of your pump, and maybe then some. Your claims otherwise are just that.

Simple logic will tell you that two emergency drains would be better than ONE. So if you are going to drill 3 holes you might as well do a Herbie with TWO dry emergency drains.

 

[jthomps123]

A siphon lifts water in a short leg by using the weight of fluid in a long leg to move it. The Herbie is no such animal. The drain in the bottom of your bath tub is not a siphon, it is a drain. The Herbie is a drain. A full pipe is not a siphon, it is just a full pipe.

OK man, even Bean calls the gated drain a siphon. :hammer:

 

[teesquare]

er...Dolphin guy....
That is what the Bean system does - the other drain - the "open channel.... BECOMES an additional emergency drain *IF* it is needed.
T

 

[PowermanKW]

OK man, even Bean calls the gated drain a siphon. :hammer:

The Bean is a siphon, the Herbie is a drain.

 

[jthomps123]

er...Dolphin guy....
That is what the Bean system does - the other drain - the "open channel.... BECOMES an additional emergency drain *IF* it is needed.
T

Er.... 2 dry sitting drains at 100% capacity > 1 dry drain + 1 partially used drain.

Now im no physics freak and among other things Bean was intelligent, so there must be something to this fangled drain he created that I just dont understand.

 

[PowermanKW]

Herbie is not 'only' for reef ready tanks. Nor was it ever intended to only be used as such. It was a plumbing method that allowed for silent drainage with a single emergency drain.

The simple fact is the most practical drain, even if you are drilling your own setup, is to use a herbie with a single emergency that can handle the complete flow of your pump, and maybe then some. Your claims otherwise are just that.

Simple logic will tell you that two emergency drains would be better than ONE. So if you are going to drill 3 holes you might as well do a Herbie with TWO dry emergency drains.

I think we can agree to disagree at this point. A full pipe with no air does not make noise. Niether Herbie nor Bean invented this. A pipe big enough to trickles water down the wall also does not make noise. Bean did not invent that eirther. Herbie incorporated a full pipe into his design to make a silent overflow. Bean incorporated both in his design. You can choose what you want to incorporate in your custom design and name it after yourself. Herbie designed a silent overflow for RR tanks. Doing a custom overflow and drilling your own holes is no longer a Herbie. You are just using same basic principles of a full pipe in a custom aplication the same way Herbie and Bean did.

 

[jthomps123]

The Bean is a siphon, the Herbie is a drain.

From beans website:
A standpipe can only run silently under two conditions. 1) ....... 2) The volume of the flow is high enough to keep the pipe entrance submerged, creating a full siphon.

The Bean is a glorified herbie - it runs on the same principles. The open channel only siphons during an 'emergency'.

The main drain is a siphon no matter how you want to mince words.

 

[teesquare]

Well...I do not want to make yo feel that I am picking on you for not "getting it" either.
The truth is - I could not understand it fully, but there were so many other reefers that had great experiences with it - that I thought, "What the heck" - it is one more hole....And - I wanted to try another something different anyway.
Again - the Herbie method works, and works well.
But - the Bean method adds to it. And waht it adds is additional safety.
I can shut off the valve completely to the siphon drains, and the open chanel will kick in to take all of the water. Additioanlly, the emergency will handle everything if the open channel, and the siphon(s- in my case) get clogeed.
How could it happen? A fish going over the overflow , such as a tang, could possibly close off the siphon - AND the open channel - if it were a reasonable size fish.
It only happens, when you are out of town - and in the middle of the night of course - or at least that is my luck!
T

 

[PowermanKW]

Er.... 2 dry sitting drains at 100% capacity > 1 dry drain + 1 partially used drain.

Now im no physics freak and among other things Bean was intelligent, so there must be something to this fangled drain he created that I just dont understand.

The difference is in the drain and the siphon. Water hight above Herbies drain willl sort of regulate differences in flow. The siphon in Beans design will just flow what is there in the overflow. The open channel in Beans deign is there for a regulation mechanisim. As long as there is not enough water to come off the ipe wall and splash, it will remain silent. The Bean will remain parked exactly at the level of the open channel at all times. Herbie will fluctuate in the over flow box. If the open channel starts to make noise in the Bean, then you just open the valve a bit on the siphon drain to get it quiet again.