NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[trilinearmipmap]

I've been running this system for a while now, I like it but I find from time to time the level in the overflows changes, maybe due to variations in pump output or partial blockage of the holes in the standpipes.

If I ever do it again I will use gate valves, the ball valves are to hard to adjust.

 

[brian_V]

Herbie,

I plan to use your method for my 175 Oceanic BF that has 2 overlows, each overflow has a 1" main return and a 3/4" for the emergency return. My question is that since my sump is an Oceanic sump, it has only 2 holes. I think that someone has similar setup is combining the two main returns (1") into 1 hole of the sump, then combine the two emergency returns (3/4") into the other hole. I am thinking this way there would be too much water coming into one hole while the other hole basically has no water (emergency). So I am thinking if I could combine the main and emergency return of each overflow to go into one hole of the sump respectively, this way there will be water coming down on both hole of the sump. Which way will be more quiet, or which is the better way ?

 

[Qdoggie]

Brian: I did what you are asking about. I used all 4 holes for drains but implemented standpipes for all 4. Underneath, I used Y connectors and some flex pipe going into a 1-1/2" drain line. Then I did what sandman suggested, I used a 2" "sump silencer T", inside the sump. It is super quiet.

 

[brian_V]

How to use Sequence 3600 with this method

How to use Sequence 3600 with this method

Qdoggie,

I see that you have used Dolphin pump in your setup. I plan to use Sequence 3600 which has 2" inlet and 1 1/2" outlet. Does it matter if I use 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" pipes to connect from the overflow holes to my sump while running a 1 1/2" return from the pump to the tank ? Or is it OK as long as I use 2" pipe to connect the inlet of the Sequence to the sump. I guess since I have 2 overlow holes with 1" bulkheads and 2 overflow holes with 3/4" bulkheads, it would be easier to combine the pipes from the 2 1" bulheads versus combining 1 1/4" pipe (main return from 1" bulkead) to 1" pipe (emergency return from 3/4" bulkhead). Can you explain how you use the T inside the sump to help silence the noise ? My main and emergency returns will be coming into 2 holes in the sump with 1" bulkheads... I am setting this up for the first time, please help....

 

[Qdoggie]

The water out of your main tank is only going to return the flow as fast as it is pumped, considering you use adequate size drain lines, which I guess is your question. You will be fine.

What I did was take the 1" and 3/4" return lines from one side and have them go into a 2" wye. I did the same for the other side. I then used a tee to connect both pipes into one. I then ran the line into the sump and created a 3" silencer as sandman referred to earlier.

All was done using flex pipe. I did not keep one open for an emergency drain. Personally I have never had a problem with anything clogging my drains. I had a 75g with one return standpipe for about 10 yrs. My new tank for about 2 years. No snails, algae etc... But it obviously happens as was the reason for the creation.

The Tee in the sump was just that, a tee. I put a cap on the top with a small hole and the drain line goes into the side. The water travels down as the air is escaping out the hole.

 

[Qdoggie]

There was a link posted by sandman that shows it

 

[Willy315]

I dont have an RR tank so I will be using an external overflow box. I was sittin here thinking of how to make the "emergency" line to the sump. My overflow is the kind with a divider in it to prevent loss of siphon during a power outtage.. Would drilling a hole below the top edge of the box and slightly higher than the water level on the drain side, then putting a bulkhead fitting in the hole then running a line to the sump work for an "emergency" drain line?

 

[tygger]

Sounds like that'll work. If I end up incorporating this design, I probably won't have an emergency drain line. That would've been the preferred method, but my setup is won't allow for it. Instead, I'd probably just get a switch to shut off the pump if the water level got too high.


On another note, does using Herbie's design slow down the flow considerably? Since this is such an old thread, has anyone who's been using this desing have any comments/suggestions/complaints?

I'm currently using a durso and my overflow is quiet. My problem also lies in the the sump. Hopefully using the "T" method will work for me. If not, then I'll need to try this design...

 

[Beenalongtime79]

hey tygger,

When comparing this setup to a durso, yes... it will be slower in that a durso is basically a partial siphon, and a siphon is always faster than a gravity drain.

If you size your pipe right, then you should have no worries. 1 1/4" pipe through a 1" pipe should easily handle close to 1000gph so, if you're pump puts out more than this, then you might have to choke it back a little.

Peace,
John H.

 

[tygger]

hey rufio,

My drain bulkhead is only 1" so that is what I'd have to use if I were to go with Hervbie's setup. I haven't modified the pipe entering the sump with a T yet... hopefully that will be enough to mute the noise. Only problem is that I dont have enough room in the sump to submerged the T half way. I can only incorporate the T above the water level.

You think that would work?

 

[Beenalongtime79]

Hey tygger,

If the T doesn't work... because it is above the water and the ensuing splash of water in the sump may cause some noise, you can upsize the pipe to 1 1/4" thin wall PVC and just reduce down to the 1" bulkhead and you should be fine.

Peace,
John H.

 

[tygger]

Hey rufio, Im not quite understanding... Where do I increase the pipe to 1 1/4", after the the bulkhead going into my sump? Thanks.

 

[MrSandman]

Only problem is that I dont have enough room in the sump to submerged the T half way. I can only incorporate the T above the water level.

I'm having a hard time visualizing this. How can you not have enough room to submerge a Tee halfway into the water? Do you run the water level in your sump really low? Or is it packed w/ equipment? Got any pics?

 

[tygger]

This is the only pic I have right now. It's a far shot so it's kinda hard to see the piping. The left bulkhead is the drain and the flow is split to the left and right side of the sump. Most of the flow is going to the left side and this is where the problem is.

Just played around a bit and I have enough room, barely, to incorporate the T half way in the water. But this still does not help much. I've tried multiple ways... and feel like it's helpless.

I'll try again tomorrow after work, but I need to get some sleep right now(with the tank off). I'll also take pics of the different ways I tried.

I may just have to resort to Herbie's method. Im just a little reluctant to try it since it seems like there is more room for error. Im using one of the two bulkheads for my return, so I wont have an emergency backup.

Since I split my drain, I'll need to adjust two valves. I think I read that someone is experiencing fluctuating water levels in the sump. Why is this?

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[tygger]

oops, forgot the pic...

 

[Beenalongtime79]

tygger, just use 1 1/4" tubing and once you get to the bulkhead use a 1 1/4" to 1" reducing fitting on both sides of the bulkhead and you should be set.

Peace,
John H.

 

[tygger]

Oh I see. The mega flow kit comes with a 1 1/4" pipe in the overflow and reduces to a 1" bulkhead, but underneath the bulkhead, I've been using 1" piping. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[tygger]

Ok, seems as if I just a little more sensitive to the noise than others. Using the Durso, no matter what I've tried, the noise was still annoying. (Keep in mind that the tank is in my bedroom about 6ft away from my bed)

So I decided to give Herbie's method a shot after testing almost every possible combination.

One word: WOW!

Herbie was not exxagerating when he said it was SILENT. THANKS Herbie :beer:

Now the only thing I can hear is the annoying pump hum which I think is caused by vibrating off the bottom of the sump. A couple sheets of thin closed sell foam didn't work...

I did a quick test to see how this method worked and sounded so I still have some re-planning/plumbing to do.

What does the height of the stand-pipe have to do with anything? I tested this method using a standpipe about 1/2 of the way up and again without a standpipe at all and did not notice a difference in performance.

I'm guessing the only reason for a tall standpipe is to prevent water in the overflow to flow back into the sump.


I also noticed that it was difficult to get the water level to stabilize, esp. with ball valves. I'll have to order some gate valves...
Do the gate vavles need to be positioned vertically?

Thanks

 

[Beenalongtime79]

tygger,

It doesn't really matter if the gate valve or ball valve are vertical. The reason for the standpipe is to prevent excessive water pressure from pushing on the ball valve. The less standpipe you have, the more water pressure there is... so you must turn back the gate valve more which makes the hole smaller and smaller and thus more prone to clog. The taller the standpipe, the less water pressure that gate valve sees, thus you can keep it open more than when you have greater water pressure.

Does that make sense... and it also keeps the water in the overflow... although if you have extra space in the sump it doesn't matter. The one great thing about not having a standpipe is that you can easily flush the overflow area of nasty detritus every once in a while. For me, I have to unscrew the standpipe and then flush.

I'm glad Herbie posted this, because I think it has helped out a lot of people. For me, I thought it up myself a few years ago and have kept it to myself because it is harder to implement and you have to have a backup standpipe or baffle off your overflow very well to prevent a possible flood situation. There are a bunch of naysayers on this board, but this method works well and is absolutely SILENT.

Peace,
John H.

 

[tygger]

I see... For some reason, I was under the impression that the lower the standpipe, the greater the pressure, therefore greater flow. I never thought about having to restrict the valves more to create the same water level above the standpipe.

I love this setup in the sense that it is silent. But what has me a little worried is the fact that I'll need to "fine tune" the overflow every so often to compensate for buildup within the pipes, valves and pump.

Rufio, since you've been using this design for many years now, are any of my concerns worth worrying about?

Thanks!