NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!!

[Beenalongtime79]

Seems like the reefing bug has really taken you... considering your post rate, I can tell that you've been busy.

Good luck w/ the set up of the new tank.

Peace,
John H.

 

[ribs]

I have been using this for about 6months now, and I must agree,
when properly tuned, it is dead silent.
However, I have found that mine needs constant fiddling. I am positive that it is because the pump output rate has fluctuated and started to decline over the last several months.

I have to fiddle also, probably about once every 2 days, I think it's because I don't have my auto-topoff in yet, it's done manually so the return area level fluctuates depending on how regular I am on topoff.
I think the level range causes a different "head" on the return pump, affecting the flow, so I need to tweak the drain valve. I think that's what going on, any comments? Does your sump return level fluctuate much?

 

[Beenalongtime79]

Yeah... that's what is going on. Fluctuating water levels in the sump will lead to fluctuating levels in the overflow box. This can be ameliorated if you just baffle off that one section so it stays constant, but I guess it's too later for you.

Peace,
John H.

 

[Beenalongtime79]

With all things being equal, you should never have to mess w/ the gate valve or ball valve once setup.

Peace,
John H.

 

[ribs]

yep, I totally agree, as soon as my topoff is in it'll fix itself
It's my not manually keeping up with the water level in the return section of the sump, the level fluctuates as much as 3 to 4 inches.
The tank (and this type of overflow setup) has been running almost 4 months now, tho, ya think I should get the topoff going? hehe

This is a great setup for SILENT BUBBLE_LESS overflows, IME.

 

[mc-cro]

I run a tunze osmolator, so my wate level is solid.
I also have 4 returns coming off the pump. 1 feeds the fuge,
2 feed the main tank(from the basement) and 1 is just a relief valve that dumps back to the sump. That may have a big part
in the fluctuating of my pump output as well

 

[Willy315]

I have to fiddle also, probably about once every 2 days, I think it's because I don't have my auto-topoff in yet, it's done manually so the return area level fluctuates depending on how regular I am on topoff.
I think the level range causes a different "head" on the return pump, affecting the flow, so I need to tweak the drain valve. I think that's what going on, any comments? Does your sump return level fluctuate much?

I had that problem too, I finally found the sweet spot where no matter where the sump level is the water in my HOB overflow stays fairly consistant and WHISPER quiet!

 

[ribs]

Nice, Indy1!
You've given me inspiration to keep trying to find the sweet spot, I knew it was there somewhere!!
(I'm justifying not installing the auto topoff again!)

 

[Beenalongtime79]

Just get the autotopoff man. It will probably be close to the best thing you do for yourself. Imagine never having to fill your tank up w/ top off water again.

Peace,
John H.

 

[ribs]

mc-cro, do you manually adjust the ratios to each outlet often, or has it been set for a while, and you still get different levels in your overflow?

John H, ......yeah
One of these days!

 

[mc-cro]

The only thing I have adjusted is the gate valve on the overflow drain, to try and compensate for the fluctations.

 

[ribs]

Thanks, mc-cro for the info, I'm going to assume the balance between the 4-way splits sends different flow up to the tank leg of your setup, water in changing directions have funky results, but I'm probably wrong

 

[ribs]

..If I can't write the exact formula properly on paper which matches the results, then I guess, and state it as a guess, and go with it until proven wrong.....
I'm so novice!

 

[patsan]

I finally did the plumbing for Herbie's method and I agree, it is dead silent. I think my pump might be too powerful though. Here's my setup.
Velocity T4 with 3/4" piping going up over the back of the tank for the return.
Inside the overflow box, One drain and two emergency backups.
The main drain is 1Ã"šÃ‚½" pipe in the overflow box, and 1" piping going to the sump.
The pump is pumping too much water into the tank than the drain can handle. If I don't close the valve a little to raise the water level in the overflow box, I have the suction noise. Even if I keep the drain fully open, the pump is pumping too much water and the tank is about to overflow.
I had to find the same flow rates for the pump and the drain...but in doing so, had to throttle my pump down about Ã"šÃ‚½ way. I'm afraid this will burn out my pump. Is there anything else I could do besides re-plumbing the entire tank? I love how quiet it is. I have to keep checking the tank to see if it's still on.

 

[Beenalongtime79]

Take that 1" pipe going to the sump and turn it into 1 1/4" pipe.

You will not burn out your pump that way.

Peace,
John H.

 

[ribs]

Patsan

Even if I keep the drain fully open, the pump is pumping too much water and the tank is about to overflow.

At that point (with the drain full open) is the level in the overflow as high as the main tank, or is it lower?

 

[patsan]

Take that 1" pipe going to the sump and turn it into 1 1/4" pipe.
You will not burn out your pump that way.
Peace, John H.

The bulkhead is a 1Ã"šÃ‚½"-1"...that's why I used the 1" piping into the sump. With it reduced down to 1" on the other side of the overflowbox in my stand, would it really matter if I changed the piping to 1Ã"šÃ‚½"?

Patsan At that point (with the drain full open) is the level in the overflow as high as the main tank, or is it lower?

It's lower. I had to turn the pump off before the overflow box had time to fill up because it was starting to suck the sump dry and also it was within a hair of overflowing in the main tank.

 

[ribs]

It's lower.

It sounds like your pump is too much for the overflow wall/teeth, but you'd be the best person to judge that.
What I'm thinking is if the tank is about to overflow, but there's still room in the overflow box area, then the water cannot pass over/thru the top of your overflow wall fast enough. Where if the problem was the drain couldn't keep up, then the overflow box area would be full, (at the same level as the tank water) and would be overflowing along with the rest of the tank. Know what I mean here?
Some modify (widen, lower, or raise) the teeth on their overflows to increase the flowrate at this bottleneck.
Like was mentioned, it wouldn't hurt to increase the drain pipe size that's below the tank, but that doesn't appear to be the issue here, IMO. It may become one, tho, after making the overflow wall handle more flow.
You should be able to get this working properly, stare at the setup and think about it, cause and effect, blah-blah and you'll probably come up with the solution
I consider the change on my tank, no noise-increased flow-lack of bubbles, just plain amazing, and has made my setup far more satisfying to me.

 

[patsan]

It sounds like your pump is too much for the overflow wall/teeth, but you'd be the best person to judge that.
What I'm thinking is if the tank is about to overflow, but there's still room in the overflow box area, then the water cannot pass over/thru the top of your overflow wall fast enough. Where if the problem was the drain couldn't keep up, then the overflow box area would be full, (at the same level as the tank water) and would be overflowing along with the rest of the tank. Know what I mean here?
Some modify (widen, lower, or raise) the teeth on their overflows to increase the flowrate at this bottleneck.
Like was mentioned, it wouldn't hurt to increase the drain pipe size that's below the tank, but that doesn't appear to be the issue here, IMO. It may become one, tho, after making the overflow wall handle more flow.
You should be able to get this working properly, stare at the setup and think about it, cause and effect, blah-blah and you'll probably come up with the solution
I consider the change on my tank, no noise-increased flow-lack of bubbles, just plain amazing, and has made my setup far more satisfying to me.

Ya know...you may be right. The teeth on this tank are much closer together than on my other tank. I commented to someone on how no snails would be able to get thru the teeth. I'll have to figre something out to at least try and see if that's the problem. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Beenalongtime79]

Well, if it's a problem w/ getting water actually into the oveflow box, then no, upsizing the size from drain pipe to your sump will not matter, but if it were not your overflow teeth restricting flow, then yes, it would help.

Peace
John H.