Newbie Building A Sump Filter!!

[InADream]

Ok guys this is my first attempt at designing my own sump filter... I have read online quite a bit and have put this together... I am not expecting it to be perfect, I am expecting tons of citique...

The Skimmer is based on RandyStacy`s Skimmer (Great Job Randy)...

The tank size and skimmer size have not been determined yet, this will be filtering a 60 to 75 gallon tank (havent decided yet LOL)

All right lets begin critquing this and hopefully get it correct..

Dream

 

[eznet2u]

I personally would lose the Bio-balls...they may cause problems down the road. If you have enough liverock they are not needed. In there place, you might add a filter sock.

This is just my opinion...

 

[Sk8r]

No bioballs, just a straight fall of water into water. If you occasionally need particulate filtration, just shove a little blue-white filter medium in there and take it out within a day.

Your return pump is usually the largest pump. It'll be something above a mag 9.5, which is a bit too small.

 

[InADream]

Ok this is the latest revised version... With No Bio-Balls... How does everything else look... My Return pump is a 450 GPH pump which will have a valve in line to regulate the flow... Hows That Size Pump?

Dream

 

[eznet2u]

The chamber for the return pomp needs to be larger, as this is where you evaporation will show. If you are manually topping off, you will most likely wear yourself out. With a ATO, you will be over working it.

If the GPH is after taking into consideration the head loss to the tank, that is great, as long as you are running powerheads in the tank. I would suggest a couple of Koralia 3's or 4's.

 

[tigeroscar]

also, putting a ball valve directly on the return line with no where for the extra water the pump wants to push will drastically decrease the life of your pump....tee off your return back to the sump so the pump isnt so restricted when you dont want as much flow in the main tank.

 

[woz9683]

Is the drain line from your skimmer dumping directly into the refugium portion of the sump? And if so, you'll probably want a set of baffles before the return pump, as that will be the only place to get rid of microbubbles from the skimmer.

 

[InADream]

EzNet2u, I[ made the return portion a bit larger and will be working on dimensions here soon, as for the pump all it says is 450 GPH with a Max Lift of 10 foot... Is this Ok...

Tigeroscar, I put a new line in the return line for excess water, thanks for the tip...

Woz9683, should I move the return line from the skimmer to dump into the skimmer section, or add the baffles...

 

[woz9683]

Personally, I would add baffles between the refugium and the return pump. You'd be surprised how far those bubbles can travel when you don't force the water under a baffle. On the other hand, moving the return line from the skimmer back into the skimmer section would certainly help, just not as much as a good set of baffles. For that matter, why not just spin the skimmer a full 180 from the way you have it pictured, and dump the return from the skimmer into the same area where the tank drains, and then add a set of baffles too. Since, you're feeding the skimmer directly from the tank you could really put the skimmer's return anywhere you want.

 

[InADream]

Spinning the skimmer 180 sounds like a good idea... As well as adding a baffel or two in the refugium... Do you have a good picture of a baffel so i can try and copy it... This is going to be as much of a DIY project as possible... Should have a new diagram up here tonight... Thanks

 

[woz9683]

A couple more things:

I disagree with splitting the return to the tank. Most pumps can be valved back, at least in small amounts, with no ill effects whatsoever. After all, head pressure creates the exact same force on the pump. Just put a ball valve on the discharge side of the pump, and you can regulate the amount of water returning to the tank that way if it's necessary.

The other thing is, with that size pump, you would NEVER have to valve it back anyway (unless you make your drain lines from the tank like 1/2"). If the sump is right under the tank, you're still probably looking at about 5 feet of head pressure on that pump. You'll be lucky to get 350gph actually being returned to the tank. This will be fine as long as you have some powerheads in the tank for added circulation. But again IMO, on a tank that size you'll probably end up with a 1" drain able to handle 600gph, so why not use a slightly larger pump that can immediately give you more flow?

 

[woz9683]

Got a sketch:

 

[InADream]

Woz9683, I hear what your saying about the pump and not returning the line... I was trying to get away with not having to purchase another pump since I alreay have that one... I will look around and see what pumps I can find... thanks for all your help, and the baffle pic is great...

 

[coralfragger101]

IMO the above diagram has uneeded baffles.

Here's an actual photo of a simple fuge / sump that I made.

The right baffle has a slot cut in it midway down so that water enters the fuge area horizontally rather than dropping over a baffle and possible disturbing the mud substrate. You only need two baffles prior to the pump return section as a bubble trap. Allow the water to enter the pump area from the bottom. If you have water going over the baffle into the pump return area, it could create bubbles simply from the fall.

In your case, you want a skimmer section, so simply move the right baffle over to give yourself enough room to put the skimmer in the intake section of the fuge/sump and allow the skimmer to exit right back into that same area.

 

[InADream]

Revision 3...

 

[surfjeepzx]

Your baffle should be under>over>under. The over baffle will determine the height of the water level in the skimer/return chamber. By having 2 under baffles you are iving the bubbles twice the chance to evacuate vs once with one under baffle.

 

[coralfragger101]

Surfjee is correct with the under>over>under IF you really want to use 3 baffles. It isn't necessary but it's your sump. With a single baffle using the slot cut in the center it will stop most bubbles within the intake section anyway. The ones that do enter the refugium section will quickly go to the top and will not make it to the other side. I would still suggest 2 baffles on the left side just as a precaution against the waterfall effect within the pump section creating it's own bubbles.

I would make the intake section smaller. You only need enough room to fit the skimmer in it. You will want the pump section larger. Too small of a pump section and that section can actually run dry on start up prior to water making it back down through your overflow system to catch up with itself. This will happen anytime you shut the system down or you have a power failure. Depending on how big of a main display tank you have you may need to lower the height of the baffles a bit. You need to make sure you have enough room leftover so that the water that will empty into the sump on power failure will not overflow the sump.

 

[coralfragger101]

Out of curiousity, what kind of vertical drop length are you looking at with that pipe coming off your main to feed the skimmer?

You will need a decent drop that basically stays filled with water in order to get a constant pressure. Without a constant pressure you will have a very hard time getting your skimmer set correctly.

Something like this will give you good results.

 

[InADream]

The drop will be roughly 4ft... I dont currently have the tank or stand everything is in production now... The tank should be here next week some time and the stand will be completed within the next two weeks... Now would it be better if i turned the sump completely around so that the overflow goes straight down and the return will have the bend in the pipe... Will that cause problems on the return... I will make some adjustments to the diagram and see what you think...

Thanks

 

[coralfragger101]

Personally, I would flip it. I say that because you are trying to run the skimmer off of the overflow. If you weren't then I would say it was probably better to bend your drain line rather than your return line.

Here's a photo of my actual set up:

That's about a 2' drop before it bends. The skimmer will be connected to the open port. No air bubbles will make it down that far. All the excess is bypassed through the T up high and goes down into the sump.

You will also need to consider the skimmer itself and how much flow your skimmer needs to operate correctly. If you are only pushing 3-400 gph through your overflow and your skimmer needs 4 or even 500 you may have a problem. IF you have to dump all the water through the skimmer then it will be filled with bubbles and make the water level in your skimmer flucuate. I'll have no problems as I'll be running at least 600 gph through my overflow and my skimmer only needs 210.