and you can add as many dowels as you please (they cost less than LS 
). The more you use, the more stable the rock will be.
). The more you use, the more stable the rock will be.
Newbie Corner Feedback Thread
- Thread starter WaterKeeper
- Start date
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
I have another question concerning a QT tank. You recommended to keep a sponge in the sump so that when you need to set up a QT tank, you can add the sponge which will have good bacteria in it. However I've also read that a sponge can be a breeding ground for bad bacteria and that you should not keep on in the sump for more than a couple of days.
What am I missing here?
What am I missing here?
Paul B
Premium Member
Yeah Tom, what about those bad bacteria. I hate those.
Actually a sponge an Oldsmobile fender or a tree limb will all aquire the same bacteria as everything else in your tank.
If there is "bad" bacteria in the sump, it will also be in the sponge.
Bad bacteria is disease causing bacteria and it is everywhere including on your hands but I don't want to do Waterkeeper's job, he has slept long enough so Waterkeeper what are we going to do about these Bad bacteria?
I say ground them and not let them watch TV.
I think the bad sponge we are talking about is the one in the kitchen sink. It can pick up salmonella and other bad guys form the counter top and act as a refuge. Bad for humans but not so much for fish.
I actually said to run a small bio-wheel on the sump and, when needed, use it for a ready made bio-filter for the Q-tank. Neither the sponge, nor a bio-wheel, should harbor much in the way of a threat. Most pathogenic bacteria tend to opportunistic anyway and are more of a danger to an injured fish than a healthy fish. Now, if you use it on a hospital tank, you can always add an antibiotic if the fish seem to get signs of an infection. That pretty much does in the the bio-wheel's population too so large, frequent water changes are a must for a medicated hospital tank.
Aquarist007
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13588912#post13588912 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
I say ground them and not let them watch TV.
I think the bad sponge we are talking about is the one in the kitchen sink. It can pick up salmonella and other bad guys form the counter top and act as a refuge. Bad for humans but not so much for fish.
I actually said to run a small bio-wheel on the sump and, when needed, use it for a ready made bio-filter for the Q-tank. Neither the sponge, nor a bio-wheel, should harbor much in the way of a threat. Most pathogenic bacteria tend to opportunistic anyway and are more of a danger to an injured fish than a healthy fish. Now, if you use it on a hospital tank, you can always add an antibiotic if the fish seem to get signs of an infection. That pretty much does in the the bio-wheel's population too so large, frequent water changes are a must for a medicated hospital tank.
to further add------three days prior to setting up your qt run an hob filter on the sump of the display tank
On the day of setting up the qt--use water from the existing display and transfer over the hob filter.
If using the qt for observations or using hyposalination then you can also add a piece of live rock to the qt.
this should be all you need for filtration.
(you will also need a heater)
alot of reefers keep track of the ammonia levels by using this indicator:
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Thanks guys. I guess I was comparing a sponge to a sock that some use to trap junk. Two different animals I guess. The HOB sounds good and that ammonia alert device looks like a winner. Do you have to check it with a more accurate test kit once in a while?
Aquarist007
New member
I personally don't run either anymore--sponges or filter media and or a micron filter sock.
They have the ability to trap nitrates and release them back into the water column
this is because they can't support anoxic bacteria--the bacteria responsible for breaking down nitrates to nitrogen gas--thus completing the nitrogen cycle.
This includes trickle filters with or without bioballs, fluvals, canister filters ect ect.
Best to remove all the media where possible nitrates can collect.
Randy and I have had several discussions on that very subject. In the rules of chemistry we need to have a mass balance,that is, nitrogen introduced to the tank equal nitrogen compounds found in the water column.
In other words, you don't create more nitrate than the amount of nitrogen containing substances introduced into the tank. The introduction is mainly from the protein in the food we feed the inhabitants. That protein is hydrolyzed into ammonia, then nitrite and finally nitrate.
This begs the question on how a fixed film media, something like a UGF or bioballs could create more nitrate than the proteins added to form it. I proposed a theory that perhaps the air plentiful media also encouraged the nitrogen fixing cyanobacter. They could therefore take nitrogen from the atmosphere and convert it to ammonia or nitrate.
Randy feels it is more a problem in proximity. In a LR system both nitrate production and reduction of nitrate to nitrogen gas occur within centimeters of each other. When using a mechanical filter condition,without low oxygen content, it is not conducive to nitrate to nitrogen as the low oxygen areas are further down the system, ie. sand bed and rock.
Both are plausible theories but neither is proven by data.
A good theory to explore for the next science fair.
In other words, you don't create more nitrate than the amount of nitrogen containing substances introduced into the tank. The introduction is mainly from the protein in the food we feed the inhabitants. That protein is hydrolyzed into ammonia, then nitrite and finally nitrate.
This begs the question on how a fixed film media, something like a UGF or bioballs could create more nitrate than the proteins added to form it. I proposed a theory that perhaps the air plentiful media also encouraged the nitrogen fixing cyanobacter. They could therefore take nitrogen from the atmosphere and convert it to ammonia or nitrate.
Randy feels it is more a problem in proximity. In a LR system both nitrate production and reduction of nitrate to nitrogen gas occur within centimeters of each other. When using a mechanical filter condition,without low oxygen content, it is not conducive to nitrate to nitrogen as the low oxygen areas are further down the system, ie. sand bed and rock.
Both are plausible theories but neither is proven by data.
A good theory to explore for the next science fair.
Last edited:
Aquarist007
New member
Great Mentor-----
with regard to bioballs ect--Isn't it a matter that they collect nitrates with all the other crap which can't be broken down any further and can end up back in the system.
I am not quite clear on how they can produce their own nitrates?
Paul B
Premium Member
Thats amazing, I always thought something like a UG filter would be the absolute worst thing anyone could possably put into their system and ther nitrates would go through the roof.
Live and learn.
I can't wait unitl tomorrow to see what else I will learn.
I love this stuff.
(it took fifty years to come up with what I have been telling people all along. I even discussed this with Pres Eisenhower)
Aquarist007
New member
I have the same ideas as you about UG filters------hmmm I think I learned it from another mentor of mine name PaulB
the coincidences on here are amazing sometimes
I would still prefer to go the route of the remote DSB
But you forget that Paul screwed up on the plumbing and his UGF runs backwards.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13597656#post13597656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
But you forget that Paul screwed up on the plumbing and his UGF runs backwards.
I don't think he screwed up. Don't forget the three things plumbers learn at school:
- Hot on the left
- Cold on the right
- Sh** water**t flows downhill
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Ignoring that thingy with impellors -- ur what do you call it?? -- a pump, that's it, a pump.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Aquarist007
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13597656#post13597656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
But you forget that Paul screwed up on the plumbing and his UGF runs backwards.
:eek2: please don't get him going on reverse underground filters again Tom
Aquarist007
New member
-
never had a problem with my pumps--even my grandkids can operate them for me---never a problem with power outages either:
Aquarist007
New member
at least my boys are learning about using a trough
in the above picture.
Aquarist007
New member
thanks Paul---but here is the youngest "Capn Carter" a born to be reefer too
Aquarist007
New member
Waterkeeper (Tom) can this thread possibly be made a sticky or added to your "new to the reef" folder?
I have had a number of people ask me
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1488507&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
thanks
Scott
I have had a number of people ask me
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1488507&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
thanks
Scott
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