Newbie Corner Feedback Thread

[Alaska_Phil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13727353#post13727353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
make sure you are shaking the vial and you keep adding drops until the blue colour is permanent

Unless I completely miss understood Tom's article, that's exactly what he said NOT to do.

The clarification I need is do I stop when I see that first flash of blue that disappears as soon as I swirl the vile, or do I wait till the whole vile stays changed after I swirl it? Is the reverting to pink something that happens in miliseconds or minutes?

Thanks.

Phil

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13727407#post13727407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Alaska_Phil
Unless I completely miss understood Tom's article, that's exactly what he said NOT to do.

The clarification I need is do I stop when I see that first flash of blue that disappears as soon as I swirl the vile, or do I wait till the whole vile stays changed after I swirl it? Is the reverting to pink something that happens in miliseconds or minutes?

Thanks.

Phil

I swirl the vial- the first flash of blue disappears--add another drop--swirl the vial---continue til the colour is blue through out

but if Tom said that in his article --then I better go back and read it again

 

[Alaska_Phil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13727460#post13727460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
I swirl the vial- the first flash of blue disappears--add another drop--swirl the vial---continue til the colour is blue through out

but if Tom said that in his article --then I better go back and read it again

I'll save you the trouble of digging through the entire article

The biggest problem with this test method is what an analytical chemist calls a “fugitive endpoint”. Drops are added and the color changes to a nice blue color but as soon as you stop the indicator reverts to pink. So you add more drops and it changes to blue but then back to pink. This happens because the titrating solution will react with the precipitated magnesium in the sample once the calcium is bound up. When doing a calcium test only add drops until you get the first “sky blue color” then stop! That first change is the true endpoint and, even if the color reverts, it doesn’t mean anything. Continuing to add drops will give falsely high results.

The above is the part I need some extra clarification on.

Phil

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13727491#post13727491 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Alaska_Phil
I'll save you the trouble of digging through the entire article



The above is the part I need some extra clarification on.

Phil

I just read that and thought it was you were referring to.

when you get very close to the colour change you will quickly see a small blue dot or so on the top of the vial.
this is not the end point of the test he was referring to---rather when you first see a uniform colour change across the whole vial.

this is why I shake the vial--add another drop--shake--add another drop until the whole vial turns colour and stop there.

what I assume Tom is referring to is if you continue to add drops after the whole solution turns blue then it can revert back.

I find the Salifert alk test very easy to read because the colour change is very distinct
Its the Salifert calcium test I find a little harder---the pink seems to gradually change to a lighter pink and then finally a blue from a real pale pink---hard to get the exact colour change time
I find that if I set two vials up at the same time and hold each up to the light it is easier to tell

 

[WaterKeeper]

That's the trouble with having the sample in a vial. The best way to do a titration is to mix the sample constantly. With a narrow vial it makes that hard and the titrant end up at the top of the column and reacts with the upper water column. My best advise here is to shake the vial after each addition and when the contents turn blue stop.

but I am surprised they could be serious with each other for more than two posts

Its only a rumor that Paul and I are getting serious.

 

[Alaska_Phil]

So should I switch to a broad vile? I do swirl the vile after each drop now, but I've never noticed it reverting back to pink after the entire solution has changed.

That passage really caught my eye since my calcium always tests right around 400 and I'm not dosing it. So now I'm wondering if I've been low and didn't realize it.

Phil

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13727633#post13727633 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Alaska_Phil
So should I switch to a broad vile? I do swirl the vile after each drop now, but I've never noticed it reverting back to pink after the entire solution has changed.

That passage really caught my eye since my calcium always tests right around 400 and I'm not dosing it. So now I'm wondering if I've been low and didn't realize it.

Phil

You don't need to switch vials---just swirl it-and stop when the complete vial changes colour
Using a bigger vial ect only wastes chemicals and you can get the same effect if you don't swirl the solution

As far as your calcium maintaining 400
could be the salt mix you use with the water changes and or there is very little draw on calcium in your system


as Tom states in his article--all salt mixtures are not the same:

here is a good comparsion:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1287118

 

[Paul B]

Its only a rumor that Paul and I are getting serious

We haven't even dated

 

[WaterKeeper]

I believe Scott he was talking about using a broader vial with the same amount of sample.

Phil,

The reversion may not happen in every case and they are always improving the indicators used in the test. If you are practicing frequent water changes, and your loading is low, then you may be adding enough with just the water changes to satisfy demand.

 

[texhorns98]

I thought this was going to be a feedback thread for this forum?

 

[WaterKeeper]

Not really Tex; it is supposed to be a feedback thread for Newbie Corner articles in [rk] but it does get a little side tracked. Have a question you can post it here even if it is unrelated to this month's column. Have a gripe! Then I'll rip your heart out!

 

[texhorns98]

Aaahhh..I see now. Thanks! I DID have a small gripe (please don't tip my heart out)...

It seems like the "New to Hobby" forum moves really fast because so many people who are CLEARLY not newbies post questions. I hardly think anyone posting about a phosban reactor in their 300G with 150G sump is new, do you? We TRUE newbies need a "fuge", if you will!

 

[WaterKeeper]

Actually Tex,

There are Non-Newbies that show up here that read the column.

Actually, that is one of the assets of the NTTH form. We have experienced reefers who try to help out the true newcomer. If you check out the number of Mods that are on the forum we have the greatest number of any forum. It isn't that they don't trust the Newbies (well I'm and exception) but we try to cover all the posts that get posted in this forum. Hopefully, we can hand feed the Newbies, without losing a finger. :eek1:

 

[texhorns98]

Understood and appreciated. I still think you should start your own on-line consulting business!

 

[WaterKeeper]

Waterkeeper's On-line; Mis-information Page.com. Put your credit card number, and mother's maiden name, (first born's name info is optional) and I give you all the bad info that you can possibly handle Newbie!.

I LIKE it!

Need a catchy logo however? Maybe-

Look familiar Newbie?

Just the 9.95 shipping and handling would pay off.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13732888#post13732888 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by texhorns98
Aaahhh..I see now. Thanks! I DID have a small gripe (please don't tip my heart out)...

It seems like the "New to Hobby" forum moves really fast because so many people who are CLEARLY not newbies post questions. I hardly think anyone posting about a phosban reactor in their 300G with 150G sump is new, do you? We TRUE newbies need a "fuge", if you will!

Actually the New to the Reef is a little bit of a misnomer.
I learn new concepts everyday here, no matter which forum I am in.

 

[Alaska_Phil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13730358#post13730358 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WaterKeeper
I believe Scott he was talking about using a broader vial with the same amount of sample.

Phil,

The reversion may not happen in every case and they are always improving the indicators used in the test. If you are practicing frequent water changes, and your loading is low, then you may be adding enough with just the water changes to satisfy demand.

Thanks. I do 20% changes every 2 weeks since I have almost no natural filtration (yet) and only a cheap skimmer. I did start using Kalk to top off with about a year ago to keep my Alk in line, so that's helping my calc too. And I need to start testing for Magnesium.

I'll be starting a "Alaska Phil's 50 gal Upgrade" thread in a few weeks as I build a new stand to house a sump and drill the tank for an overflow.

Phil

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13734938#post13734938 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Alaska_Phil
Thanks. I do 20% changes every 2 weeks since I have almost no natural filtration (yet) and only a cheap skimmer.

Phil

how much live rock and do you have a sand bed--these are both natural filtration(biological)

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13727633#post13727633 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Alaska_Phil
So should I switch to a broad vile? I do swirl the vile after each drop now, but I've never noticed it reverting back to pink after the entire solution has changed.

That passage really caught my eye since my calcium always tests right around 400 and I'm not dosing it. So now I'm wondering if I've been low and didn't realize it.

Phil

Bertoni stated this is a very good way tonight:
"The solution will turn purple, and then finally a clear blue. When it turns to the clear blue, stop. You might need to wait a bit or swirl well between drops towards the end of the titration."

(talking about the salifert calcium test)

 

[Alaska_Phil]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13735986#post13735986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
how much live rock and do you have a sand bed--these are both natural filtration(biological)

I have about 40lbs or rock total. Only about 10lbs started as live rock, the rest was dry white base rock. But they've all been in there for nearly 3 years now, and judging by the tiny feather dusters, sponges and worms in all the rock I think I can safely say it's all live now.

I have a very shallow sand bed, only about an inch or less, and mixed with course crushed coral. Just enough to cover the bottom. Not enough for any denitrification.

I've been reading a lot on this forum and all the articles in Reef Keep for those 3 years now, so I'm going to start applying some of what I've learned. I"m going to add a 20 gal sump (29 if I can fit it), fed from a drilled overflow box, with a refugium, plus add 5 to 6 inches of sand in the display at the same time. Watch for the thread, I plan to start it in the Reef Discussion forum this weekend after I take some photos of it as is.

Phil