Aquarist007
New member
won't it still have chlorine in it?
Newbie Corner Feedback Thread
- Thread starter WaterKeeper
- Start date
won't it still have chlorine in it?
No Scott, the carbon block prefilters remove chlorine. If chlorine reaches a TFC membane RO it is gone in pretty short order. That is why you do want to make sure you provide maintenance for the prefilter stage on your RO/DI.
Aquarist007
New member
thanks great mentor
:lol:
And now I shall impart on you some other water keeping secrets. Most people don't know why you have all those stages on a RO/DI. Each serves a purpose. The initiatial prefilter is just to block sediment that would come out of the plumbing when the water comes on. Those solids would clog up the next stage, the carbon block filter. The carbon block serves three purposes. First it removes chlorine that will destroy a thin film composite RO membrane; they also remove some organic material that might pass the RO and DI stage. Lastly, they also provide even finer filtration to remove particles that would plug the RO. In the case of chloramines, very common in tap water these days, the carbon block also catalyzes the breakdown of chloramine into ammonia and chlorine. The chlorine reacts with the carbon and is removed but the ammonia passes on to the subsequent stages.
The RO membrane is the ultimate barrier filter. It can remove things as small as bacteria and viruses and also many molecules themselves. Calcium and Magnesium, the two most prevalent ions in most tap water are, in essence, filtered out and flushed to the drain with the by-pass water. So are a great many other chemical compounds. Some, like ammonia, are too small to be effectively blocked and are moved in to the DI section.
DI is not the same as the upstage sections as it is more of a chemical barrier that a filter. It can remove almost any ion, including ammonia, and substitute either hydrogen or hydroxide in its place. Those two ions then interact and also form water.
The end result is that nothing leaves the unit other than water, very pure water at that.
End of lesson, my young Padawan.
And now I shall impart on you some other water keeping secrets. Most people don't know why you have all those stages on a RO/DI. Each serves a purpose. The initiatial prefilter is just to block sediment that would come out of the plumbing when the water comes on. Those solids would clog up the next stage, the carbon block filter. The carbon block serves three purposes. First it removes chlorine that will destroy a thin film composite RO membrane; they also remove some organic material that might pass the RO and DI stage. Lastly, they also provide even finer filtration to remove particles that would plug the RO. In the case of chloramines, very common in tap water these days, the carbon block also catalyzes the breakdown of chloramine into ammonia and chlorine. The chlorine reacts with the carbon and is removed but the ammonia passes on to the subsequent stages.
The RO membrane is the ultimate barrier filter. It can remove things as small as bacteria and viruses and also many molecules themselves. Calcium and Magnesium, the two most prevalent ions in most tap water are, in essence, filtered out and flushed to the drain with the by-pass water. So are a great many other chemical compounds. Some, like ammonia, are too small to be effectively blocked and are moved in to the DI section.
DI is not the same as the upstage sections as it is more of a chemical barrier that a filter. It can remove almost any ion, including ammonia, and substitute either hydrogen or hydroxide in its place. Those two ions then interact and also form water.
The end result is that nothing leaves the unit other than water, very pure water at that.
End of lesson, my young Padawan.
Aquarist007
New member
another use for a spaghetti strainer--up here in the great white north we call them protein skimmers:lol:
thanks Tom--more info for my blog:smokin:
Aquarist007
New member
I'm getting alot more algae build up on the sides of the glass now--green and brown
I'm assuming the declining wave length in the halides and attinics--14 months now since a change---all other variables of nitrate and phosphate importing still in check.
I'm assuming the declining wave length in the halides and attinics--14 months now since a change---all other variables of nitrate and phosphate importing still in check.
Paul B
Premium Member
I still don't know how I feel about the changing shift of halides and algae. My halides are about twice as old as yours and for one of the few times in my tank's history, I have no algae.
I don't like to leave them too long because I fear the new spectrum may have deleterous effects on the corals but as far as algae goes, I don't know. I do know that if I leave a bucket of NSW out in the sun it will grow algae and as far as I know, the sun still has the correct spectrum. I know there are rumors that old lamps promote hair algae, but I am not big on rumors.
Hey Watersnorter, what do you think?
Alaska_Phil
New member
Don't listen to that southern boy, he's way down there at 43 Degrees Latitude. We do no such thing up North here at 64 degrees.
Phil
craignshari
New member
How do I do a new POST to a forum
You can also go to the first or last posts in any thread and hit "New Thread" on the blue bar on the top or bottom of those posts to add a new thread to that forum.
As to the spectral shift theory, it is theory not fact. I know that blue starts to fade out faster than yellow-green on an older tube but it that leads to algae problems I do not know for sure. Dana Riddle is the expert on biological spectrum effects so you might Google a search on the papers that talk about the subject in depth.
As to the spectral shift theory, it is theory not fact. I know that blue starts to fade out faster than yellow-green on an older tube but it that leads to algae problems I do not know for sure. Dana Riddle is the expert on biological spectrum effects so you might Google a search on the papers that talk about the subject in depth.
Paul B
Premium Member
The problem with this hobby is that it is 50% is theory and the rest is guesswork.
The theories are usually formed by people that have less experience than you and I, and the guess work is formed by "experts"
The simple explanation of an expert is someone who went to enough school to achieve a PHD. Unfortunately, there are no Doctorates for aquarium keeping. Marine biology comes near it but not really. I have a cousin who is a marine biology professor at a prestegeous college on the east coast and when he looks in my tank I am extreamly amazed by what he does NOT know.
I would imagine if I had a porpoise in there he could give me the scientific name and he is very good at naming worms, but I doubt he could keep a goldfish, and a plastic goldfish at that.
He had to SCUBA dive once for that degree.
This is not meant to mean I have anything against schooling or marine biologists, but IMO, the more time you spent in college, the less creative in that subject you will be.
Now don't all you doctors beat me up at once. I don't want a high school drop out operating on me. Schooling is great but in my opinion, I would rather have someone operate on me who has been doing it for years or who has learned from someone who is good at it than someone with the best grades in Med school who has never operated on a real person.
Another example, I have been a construction electrician in Manhattan for 40 years. For that I went to trade school for 4 years and was an apprentice for 7 years. For those 7 years I had to go to school, which means sit in a classroom with a blackboard.
We learned theory. Theory is great if you want to be an engineer but it is totally useless for an electrician. OK maybe you need a little but if any time was spent actually teaching me how to bend pipe or install wiring it would have been much easier. Also I feel that the methods taught are generally for the masses and not necessarilly the best way to go. (The Capn knows this) a teacher has to teach to the general intelligence of the class. Some students are far superior and some will not get it no matter what you do.
OK where am I going with this?
Be careful with the information you get on these boards or any boards. Be careful with the information you get in books. Read all you can and try to think into what you read and don't just blindly believe it. I don't care if Julian Sprung or Jock Cousteau tells you, but their information is probably better than my marine biologist cousin.
I have written and published articles in all three aquarium magazines. Everything I have ever submitted was published.
No I am not an expert by far. I have lost more animals than there are people on this forum.
I have no credentials and could be making this stuff up.
No one ever even asked me how or where I got my information.
The best way to go is to find someone who has what you want or is breeding what you want to breed or is keeping a coral you want for many years and ask him (or her) what they do.
There are fantastic looking tanks on these sites, look at the age of the tank before you go with their methods. Anyone can throw a few thousand bucks at a tank and make it look like Tahiti but if it looks like crap in ten years their information may not be the best way to go.
If I offended anyone. I guess you will have to get over it or just offend me :lol:
I can take it. There are many things I don't know and I am afraid I will not live long enough to learn them all. :bum:
After that diatribe, I need time to digest its full meaning.
Alaska_Phil
New member
Hey, what the heck is a blackboard?
Just kidding, I think I saw one of those in grade school. As an electrical engineer I actually agree with you. The electricians I work with actually respect me more than most other engineers because I've pulled wire and even bent a little EMT. Plus, I ask for their input frequently. I tell them "You're the guys that actually have to install this, what looks good to me on paper might not work in the field, if you have a better idea I want to hear it." Probably comes from having an electrican/instrument tech/gunsmith for a father. :thumbsup:
Phil
Just kidding, I think I saw one of those in grade school. As an electrical engineer I actually agree with you. The electricians I work with actually respect me more than most other engineers because I've pulled wire and even bent a little EMT. Plus, I ask for their input frequently. I tell them "You're the guys that actually have to install this, what looks good to me on paper might not work in the field, if you have a better idea I want to hear it." Probably comes from having an electrican/instrument tech/gunsmith for a father. :thumbsup:
Phil
I dated a girl that they called "Live Wire" for awhile. She short circuited me for a low voltage lover. He was AC/DC I think.
I have no idea what this has to do with chemistry. The subject of the last Newbie Corner article?
I have no idea what this has to do with chemistry. The subject of the last Newbie Corner article?
Alaska_Phil
New member
Electrolysis maybe?
Paul B
Premium Member
As an electrical engineer I actually agree with you. The electricians I work with actually respect me more than most other engineers because I've pulled wire and even bent a little EMT. Plus, I ask for their input frequently. I tell them "You're the guys that actually have to install this, what looks good to me on paper might not work in the field, if you have a better idea I want to hear it.[/QUOTE]
Thats great that you have that attitude.
I once was the foreman of a large high rise in Manhattan where I had 125 men and the engineer was a real snob and he had no respect for working men.
I asked a question once in a job meeting and he said for me not to question him just install it like he drew in his prints.
Fine.
He had on his print a measurement for a receptacle and phone that came out ten feet outside the building on the 60th floor.
I told my man to install it just as it showed.
So we installed the outlet and phone line on the end of 2 galvanized conduits sticking 10 feet outside the window. I told him to finish it off with a finished plate and all.
When the engineer saw it and started yelling, I handed him the estimate it was going to cost him to change it.
He was never a wise guy again.
Thats great that you have that attitude.
I once was the foreman of a large high rise in Manhattan where I had 125 men and the engineer was a real snob and he had no respect for working men.
I asked a question once in a job meeting and he said for me not to question him just install it like he drew in his prints.
Fine.
He had on his print a measurement for a receptacle and phone that came out ten feet outside the building on the 60th floor.
I told my man to install it just as it showed.
So we installed the outlet and phone line on the end of 2 galvanized conduits sticking 10 feet outside the window. I told him to finish it off with a finished plate and all.
When the engineer saw it and started yelling, I handed him the estimate it was going to cost him to change it.
He was never a wise guy again.
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