Newbie Reefer

[352Reefer]

Hi everyone, new to the hobby, just setup my tank on the 7th of this month, been running since, have 2 yellow tail blue chromis & 2 false percs.

I made the mistake of getting beach sand (from Hernando Beach), not from the water as it is mud over here, but from where people lay, only to find out it is play sand or mostly silica.

This sunday someone is tearing down their tank and are giving me live sand and their water.

Any advice for a newbie on this transition I will make on Sunday would be appreciated.

Look forward to hearing from you guys.

Jon

Pictures:

 

[Steven M]

Silica sand is not bad. I have 150 lbs in my 210 gal. If the sand has been in his tank for awhile I would rinse it with saltwater.
Steve

 

[alfa1023]

Welcome to Anchor!

The thing I would be worried about with your friend's sand is that you will likely get a spike due to its being disturbed. Like Steve said, you will need to rinse it REALLY well with saltwater. Even then you probably will get a small cycle when you reset up your tank.

Do you have an extra tank that you can house the fish for a few weeks to make sure your main tank has fully cycled from the new sand? Even a cheap Walmart tote or 10 gallon tank would work temporarily. The alternative and what I would probably do is leave the sand you have alone and clean the new sand and put it in a container with a powerhead and keep it stirred until it stabilizes.

Jim

 

[reefrubble]

I concur , with Steve , and Jim . ( Very Good advice )

Ted

 

[352Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13367522#post13367522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by alfa1023
Welcome to Anchor!

The thing I would be worried about with your friend's sand is that you will likely get a spike due to its being disturbed. Like Steve said, you will need to rinse it REALLY well with saltwater. Even then you probably will get a small cycle when you reset up your tank.

Do you have an extra tank that you can house the fish for a few weeks to make sure your main tank has fully cycled from the new sand? Even a cheap Walmart tote or 10 gallon tank would work temporarily. The alternative and what I would probably do is leave the sand you have alone and clean the new sand and put it in a container with a powerhead and keep it stirred until it stabilizes.

Jim

Jim,
thanks for your response. Here's a newbie question: If I get this other live sand and this persons water from their already established tank, although I understand it's going to be disturbed...isn't it the same as if that person just added a fish to their tank, everything is remaining the same, I am taking their sand and water.

Wouldn't this be ready to go to get my damsels and percs in? I guess I don't understand why I would have to wait weeks to cycle already established live sand and live water, that persons tank is still active?

I appreciate your help.

Jon

 

[352Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13367180#post13367180 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steven M
Silica sand is not bad. I have 150 lbs in my 210 gal. If the sand has been in his tank for awhile I would rinse it with saltwater.
Steve

Steve,
Thanks for your response. I am "ok" with this sand, however everyone esle I have talked to, other locals with reef tanks, and LFS they have all said I shouldn't have used beach sand, definetly not from here in Pine Island....I only did it because I am new and have no patience and didn't see myslef paying $100+ in sand alone.

the sand I wanted from the get go was the sand most comonly used, not sure what it's called, but it's the same that the LFS use in their tanks.

This guy tearing down his tank, that is what he has, and it was an established reef tank, so he said I can get the sand I need and the water while I'm at it. So I thought I would just clean my tank out, put my damsels and percs in a bucket while I do the swap of my current sand and water with this other sand/water and put my fish in....just the same as if I gave my fish to you or you bought fish at the pet store and put them in your water....let me have some more input if you dont mind

Jon

 

[reefrubble]

Jon , you have a PM . Ted

 

[alfa1023]

Jon,

Unfortunately, when you take the existing sand out of his tank, it will stir up all the nasty stuff that is down in the sand. So you may get a nitrate spike and maybe even a full cycle (depending on how old his sand bed is and how often or not he "disturbed it" to clean it.) There really is no benefit to using his old water - maybe use some of it with some of your water. But if yours is freshly mixed (using ro/di water), I would be inclined to use it.

Your damsels and clowns are tough fish and may do fine. Maybe have an extra tank or tote on standby just in case your testing shows ammonia and nitrites after you put in the new sand.

Good luck with it and keep us posted as you go. I will send you a PM with my phone number.
Jim

 

[dmbedard]

Think of the "live" sand in the guys tank as a septic field. It has a filtering effect for the fish poop and other stuff. The "Live" part of it is that there are thousands of microscopic creatures living in it who like to eat fish poo and convert it to a usable substance.

Simply putting a cupful or several cupfulls of "live" sand in with your beach sand will seed the beach sand with the living creatures who process the bad stuff into good stuff.

This may be too simplistic, but may also help you visualize why when you stir up the "live" sand, you stir up lots of fish poo. It's already in there being quietly changed over to good stuff.

The guys can explain this much more technically than I can.


HTH, Diane

 

[alfa1023]

Diane,

You did a much better job than I did trying to explain what happens when you disturb an existing sand bed. And no better technical term than "poo" to describe what's in there! LOL.

Hope all is well with you, your swimming and non-swimming family.

Jim

 

[akwtampa]

If you get past the sand, your next concern is rock.. It looks to me like you've got all brand spanking new base rock in there.. Can you tell us the history on your rock? It is important because the bacteria and other organisms that make up a successful tank take time to form and if that is base rock, there is no way you have what it take from a biological standpoint to support anything alive in your tank..

From a sand standpoint, you really need to rinse the sand well once it is removed from the other tank especially if it was part of a Deep Sand Bed. The reason being, if it was very deep, there could have been no-oxygen zones in the sand which can bleed sulfates into your tank when you move it.. The downside being that your sand is really no longer "alive", however, you can get a small cupful of sand to "re-seed" that bed and it will come to life over time..

Finally, if you are impatient, get out of reefing now before you dump THOUSANDS into your tank before selling it all in frustration.. This is not a hobby for impatience.. Everything needs to happen in it's own time and by it's own schedule in these little glass worlds.. I'm frankly quite irritated that your LFS did not advise you against adding animals to an enviornment that has little to no biological supports.. Basically, without them, you have just doomed these animals to death.. If I were you, I would empty the tank, return the fish, get the sand over the weekend, and let the tank sit for a month or two with NO animals and just a couple of storebought shrimp in it to help seed the biologicals.. That would be the best course of action..

But, that's my 2 cents..

Aaron

 

[dmbedard]

Whoah Aaron. Awfully strong words, although your point is well taken. Don't need to scare the new folks off. Nearly everyone makes mistakes with their first tank.

Maybe you could be more gentle with your words...

Diane

 

[dmbedard]

Oh, and btw, I think it's illegal to take sand from the beach, so I wouldn't be posting it too many places 325 reefer : ).

 

[352Reefer]

Jim/Dianne/Aaron:
Thanks for all your helpful answers, I have however made yet another decision about the sand, tell me what you guys think:

I dont want to keep the sand I have now as it was a bad move to begin with due to impurities, runoff, or whatever else maybe in there, I was impatient, this tank was actually for a surprise for my 3yr old and I wanted water, sand, and a damsel in there when he saw it....but I dont like how this sand looks at all.

So, instead of using the sand from this guy who is tearing his tank down, I am getting reef sand straight from a diver, from the gulf, not sure where from, but not from our neck of the woods up here in Hernando, this guy says it is from minimum 50ft depth, from a reef, says it has all kinds of "life" in it, snails, small life, possible tiny stars, corraline bits something or another, but he emphasized it is full of life.....I did read here on RC that reef sand is good....I should mention, I put a dose of Biozyme a week ago, and another dose today, just so you know more about my water when replying.

So, I'd like to hear back from you guys if this sand will be good.

What I plan on doing is emptying out my tank, totally removing the old sand....also, my water I currently have has been cycling since the 7th of this month, almost 2 weeks ago, should I keep that water, or should I dump it, and use fresh RO/DI water and start from the top?

I appreciate all the comments above....oh Dianne, the sand was from a homeowners property out in Hernando Beach

On a side note, everyone else I have talked to locally and fish stores as well, all told me I could dump damsels in right away after salt, that they are hardy enough, so far no casualties, and my clown is doing great, going on a week and is very active in the tank.

Oh, regarding the history of my rock, the person I bought this setup from they had emptied out the tank a couple days prior to me buying it, and the rocks had were dry....I bought locally the brown rocks you see in the tank to seed the old rock.....however just today I found a big patch of hot pink coraline on one rock that wasn't there, and some small sections of the rock have pink on it, I know it's new because I looked at every square inch of this rock when I got it and saw the old dead coraline as dark purple and I can still see it, and it's different that the new stuff I am seeing.....so something must be going on right in my tank (for an impatient noobee ), there is also alot of dark rust coloring going on on my rocks similar in color to those small brown rocks I have in there.

I hope to hear back from you guys regarding the reef sand and if you think that is good sand for it's properties, and also let me know about dumping the current water when I get this reef sand.

I appreciate all your advice/help.

Jon

 

[gatorolsen]

Welcome to ANCHOR and the sw hobby!

please bear w/ my long post

I think the main thing is determining if your tank has cycled.

when you add live things they create waste and ammonia which builds up until a bacteria kicks in to lower it, while they build their levels up you get nitrite then some more bacteria kick in to lower the nitrite and you get nitrate -

basically to have a tank cycle means you have slowly let the levels of each type of bacteria build up to establish its own filter system

ammonia eaten by bacteria= nitrite
nitrite eaten by bacteria = nitrate
algae eats or water changes remove nitrate

so, if your tank has not cycled then fish could be fine until ammonia builds up

(think of your septic tank system if you don't have the right combination you have to keep pumping it out - if the right bacteria is in there it eats the waste -- if too much poo, too much water or too much bleach then your biological system is not in balance and you can't add all the poo without having bacteria ready to eat it and it takes the bacteria a little while to increase their numbers to meet a larger demand of poo)

when people talk about feeding or seeding a new tank they mean creating ammonia so that the bacteria that eats it builds its level and starts the cycle (think RidX for septics)

by putting seeded sand and used water you may create the cycle but you need established live rock and balanced amounts of the different bacteria in order to have a balanced system and keep the cycle in balance

basically adding things slowly and giving it time helps you establish the levels you need for long term health and stability

rapid growth and unbalanced levels often means a tank will crash, livestock can tolerate high levels of ammonia or nitrate (up to a point) but become more susceptible to diseases, "bad" algae blooms, etc.

Hope that info helps

re: sand from the gulf, I would check on requirements most live things (live rock, certain types of inverts and fish) require a collectors permit - penalties can be heavy depending on what you are harvesting if fws board

also when people talk about disturbing the sand - it is the same if you stir and established sand bed - each layer has different bacteria and organisms - if you disturb the layers you could create a cycle and/or release toxins that could crash a tank.

Hope that helps
Gatorolsen

 

[gatorolsen]

p.s. Nice tank!

and your info looks like you did some research re: lighting and brands for filter and heating.

 

[352Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13373605#post13373605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gatorolsen
p.s. Nice tank!

and your info looks like you did some research re: lighting and brands for filter and heating.

Gatorolsen,
Thanks for your post, I have learned alot about that in the past couple of weeks.

As far as the sand from the reef the guy who I am getting it from he gets it through suppliers who have the permits....what is your opinion though on using this sand? and if I use it, should I dump my current water that has been cycling for the past 2 weeks and start with new RO/DI water and salt? or keep my current water?

thanks for the comment on the tank, it's my 1st tank ever, I love it.

Jon

 

[alfa1023]

Jon,

The sand from the Gulf should be fine. I would still rinse it with some saltwater if possible, just as a precaution. There is still the risk of a cycle even with the Gulf sand, because as others have said, even the Gulf sand has nasty stuff down in it working as a bio filter.

As to water, if your existing water wasn't mixed using ro/di water, I would try and do as many water changes as possible using water newly mixed with ro/di water.

Not unusual for a LFS to say that Damsels are ok from the start. Many people use these fish to cycle their tanks. It is hard on the fish, but they do usually survive it. Of course you will catch heck from people for subjecting the fish to the stress.

Good luck with everything and hang in there - this hobby can get frustrating at times.

Jim

 

[akindbro4u]

352 you got pm