next meeting?

[Fizz71]

I don't think more meetings will really work for us. People complain about the drive as it is...so my answer is...it's only a couple times a year.

Really....we meet every day...here..that's kind of the purpose of us using RC and not our club site. We want to be public here..if you need help, ask questions, etc. We really just SWAP a few times a year.

--Fizz

 

[rickyfins]

non-profit wHaT????????????????

non-profit wHaT????????????????

So then why do we pay dues? I mean why be official if there isn't a benefit for the members? If thats the case, I am not going to charge people who want to attend a swap at my house 4 times a year. Only stipulation is bring a covered dish or something to eat. Wow, hard huh. Anyone else up for swaps at their houses. We can nip this one in the butt real quick. Don't mean to be a goof about it, it just seems like we pay dues for nothing. Whats the sense in being a not-for-profit if you don't do the things a not for profit is supposed to do? There isn't a newsletter to keep us up to date, or is there? We do not even get informed of whats going on. Big deal you posted the financial records on ncpars.org. Thats my piece and I am sticking to it. Anyone wanting to attend a non fee, non member swap, keep the posts coming or email or pm me.

thanks,

Rick

 

[rickyfins]

Plus ++++++++

Plus ++++++++

I don't think this is what the founders, other than some members that are elected and involved right now, wanted for the club to be! In addition to that, if the purpose of our club is to meet here everyday and only swap a few times a year without any other benefit, please refund my membership dues or put me on the ballot so I can help fix this ungodly mess! Can anyone say, ORGANIZATIONAL SKILLS???? Anyone have any ideas to fix this? This is unbelievable. Busness men running a club and don't have enough time for it. PMAS, which I had belonged to and came here to make a difference, is more organized and has lots of benefits than we currently do not offer. I thought that this club was going to utilize its resources and make a difference in helping all reefkeepers within the club. If our only purpose is to swap a few times a year and meet here on RC, then I think it would be just fine to hold elections on here as well. Since this club seems to utilize this site for all its activities and most of its actual function then this would be the proper forum to host elections.

RICK

 

[Fizz71]

Take a deep breath...grab a coffee..long post ahead...

Take a deep breath...grab a coffee..long post ahead...

My original vision for NCPARS was to hold 2 or 3 big swaps a year using membership dues and raffle proceeds to pay for event expenses and speakers. That seemed to be the common vision of "the founders". Down the line I had hoped to get enough volunteers to start doing presentations with traveling tanks to schools that would stay a month or two then move to another school. That sort of project takes money, an NPO to get equipment donations, and most importantly VOLUNTEERS.

When Mo started his project NCPARS was ill-equipped to handle such a large endeavor. We all know what it takes to maintain the tanks in our home, maintaining huge tanks in a school is a major expense and time taker. I believe Mo STOPPED keeping a reef in his house and put everything into the schools.

The biggest problem we have right now is everybody is talking, but nobody is doing, and to make it worse, the ones not doing are complaining about others not doing. It is a mess, I'll admit it, but don't give up on the club yet. Get involved...run for office...help us out. Jon has made a great effort with the Calfo event..we need more people doing that sort of thing on the board and in committees. But right now...we don't have enough people to even FILL committees...all people want to do is complain.

The reason we meet online, the reason we only hold a few swaps is because there are plenty of local groups out there to meet monthly and hold small swaps. By trying to pull people in from all over the state at our swaps we are trying to broaden the corals available to trade. That was what was happening and that is what we were hoping would continue to happen. Now add cash flow from a large membership, donations from corps, and we can afford speakers as well and nobody is out of pocket.

Ricky made this comment:
I thought that this club was going to utilize its resources and make a difference in helping all reef-keepers within the club

.....the key to that sentence is "within"....that's what I thought too Ricky...but as soon as Mo started his project, everybody was like: "Hey..let's help Mo's project....give our money to Mo" Guess what folks...Mo's project has nothing to do with our members. We are going to have a hard time pulling in rookie reef-keepers who need our help if our money goes to the education of others and not our members. It's a noble project, and he's doing an awesome job, but it's not what I thought was the original goal of NCPARS.

That's when all this became a mess....because now we had all the old-time reefers who don't necessarily need a whole lot of education for themselves thinking we need to focus on setting up school projects. I honestly don't think we're ready for that yet. People aren't going to want to pay membership dues to a club that isn't giving back to THEM..that's what you get DONATIONS for, not dues, and then SUPPORT clubs like Mo started. And right now our donations are limited to certain BOD members (Brad and Tim) soliciting products to raffle..we're not get $1000 dollar donations from people.

I think doing things with schools is great, but it needs to be planned, thought out and controlled financially and NOT our primary goal. Our primary goal should be to OUR members. Supporting projects like Mo is running is great, but it is too expensive to fund completely. Mo is putting WAY to much out of pocket. People think donating a coral here or there is doing their part....I know it's a nice offer, and he appreciates, and I've done it myself, but I know what little I've given is nothing compared to what Mo has to put out.

IMO...We need to be more focused on our membership, but too many people are pulling in other directions and this club is going to fall apart if we don't stay focused.

If you want to help us out...run for an office or even volunteer for a committee. Please don't just complain....Most of the BOD members have at least one if not 2 or 3 regular jobs, some have families, their own businesses, etc..we don't get paid for this, we don't get benefits from this..we do this because we enjoy the hobby and want to help.

If the new Board wants to take this club in a direction that focuses solely on educating kids in the schools..do everything from donations and not have membership dues...so be it...but I'm out....I'll help out, but it's not what I thought this club was going to do. It takes A LOT of work to do what Mo is doing and you will have a hard time getting support for it because if you think like the common person...."Why would _I_ want to give money to help out a school that is 75 miles away from me? I need help with MY tank...I guess I'll just join the local club."

Think about it folks...what should our focus REALLY be? I think we have enough money saved up that we can "sponsor" things like Mo is doing but it can't be our sole focus. If it is..then I wish you all luck with it, but it wasn't what I thought the "founding members" had as a vision.

--Fizz

 

[CarlC]

Well said Rick!

The one thing that has always kept me from joining was not knowing what I would get for the money. I can think of alot of frags I could buy for the $24.

I am also not to into driving across the state for meetings a couple times each year. I would much rather pay an entrance fee or donate to one of the other clubs that are within a few hour drive. It is easier to drive up for a PMASI meeting and make a weekend out of it.

I am not trying to take anything away from the members who live upstate but it sure seems like the majority of active posters are from the Reading/Lehigh Valley area. Maybe something can be worked out that the club can be split in two (north and south). The two groups could set their own meeting schedule but have combined meetings and swaps a couple of times each year.

And yes I am NOT interested in supporting a tank or tanks that I do not have access to. Schools have their own way of getting finances. You get bombarded all the time with sales that the school groups are putting on. Donations in my opinion are fine but in no way should the dues be spent on such projects without a vote by all active members.

I have no problem giving my time to help out. I work 2nd shift so I am limited to weekends and weekdays.

The focus should be educating the members. The focus should be providing benefits to members. The focus should be making the general public aware what is happening to the reefs of the world. The focus should be sharing idea's. The focus should be sharing what works and what doesn't. Making the members happy and giving them something to show for their dues should be the focus.

Carl

 

[Fizz71]

Thank You Carl!...you're the first person I have heard speak up about: "I am NOT interested in supporting a tank or tanks that I do not have access to" ...I'm sure you're not the only one. I don't mind throwing some donations around, it's a good cause, but I agree that the focus has gone away from what I thought we should be doing...which is what you mentioned at the end of your post. But it was the membership that pushed for it...only the squeaky wheel gets greased and that sort of thing.

And yes..there are a handful of us in the Reading area, and another handful in PSU main campus area. We've had one swap that was less that 1 1/2 hour drive from my house...and that was in Allentown. The rest I've hiked anywhere from 1.5 to 3.5 hours...which I wouldn't do more than a few times a year!

Thanks for the comments.

--Fizz

 

[EMBRYOGUY]

very excited to see all the "equipment donations and volunteers because of the clubs NPO status".........

 

[JonK]

I think now that all the paperwork is done and we have our NPO status we can get our feet under us and start running. I know it took a long time but I think we can focus our efforts and get this club more active.

I think we should have more meetings but it will have to be localized groups of us. Our large swaps/meetings can only be held a few times a year due to the large area we cover.

If you have ideas or suggestions get them out in the open.

Jon

 

[CarlC]

First maybe someone from the BOD should state what was decided at the meeting for the BOD's on 1/7. Was it just a meeting for the BOD's to get together? Was anything set in stone? The only thing I got from the post was that some things were talked about.

On 3/5 Mo brought up elections. How many differant positions are there?Maybe it could be posted somewhere what the responsibilites of each position are? It might be easier to get people interested in running for a position if they knew what they would be responsible for.

Carl

 

[bmkindig]

hey
bod meetings are held online in a aol chat room and half the bod didn't even attend,i think there were 5 of the 9 of us and this is proboly the reason we are struggeling trying to organize things now.when we have bod meetings online we ask one of the board to accept the task at hand and commit to it.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

i agree....while Mo's iniative is nice...it in no way helps our struggling club. My $ was paid for the betterment of the club for its members...not to try to educate PA on reefs.

*Splitting the club to east/west, not north/south, sounds like a good idea....or maybe starting a Reading/Lehigh Valley club would be best, considering there are SOOOO many local reefers who:
a. have to drive hours to meetings
b. want to meet more often

***My house should now bw considered available for at least one meeting a year AND i would like to have some input and resposibilities laid on me.

I just want to take this to the next level.

Local powers that be....LMK
-Matt D.

 

[rickyfins]

ANOTHER LONG POST!!!!!!!!

ANOTHER LONG POST!!!!!!!!

I am in agreement with everything stated thus far. I think a small portion if at all, effort to be placed on MOs school projects. It would be nice to see NCPARS help a little and with limited interest. I am not just complaining, I want to help out. I was told there might be a problem with me running, why? I know that I have a business or used to have a successful business in the aquarium industry. I will not get into all the details as the people who know about why are the only people who need to know right now. I will state my failure is due to my willingness to share information freely and without reserve. I did not know the concequences. Other than that, I am still not sure what there is available for me to do. I am willing to put many hours into a club like ncpars and help in any way I can.

This shouldn't turn into a secret society where there isn't a single person in the general assembly who doesn't know whats going on. Division of the club is fine with me if it is needed. I would like to put an idea out there for ya. What if the club met in two locations on the same day? Web linked each meeting together to hold elections. Each body would vote and we could converse through the internet. We seem to do most of our actual function through multimedia anyway. One club, two locations but still one outcome.

As far as direction the club should go, we should decide that the same day as elections as one persons idea may not be the same as the general assembly. Fizz it seems as though you are the only one with an inkling of whats going on. Or maybe you are the only one posting that does know whats going on.

We should be education based in my opinion, but it is not neccessary to take it as far as putting our club money up for schools. It could on the other hand be to help schools educate their students or help them with the setup and attaining knowledge. I am more than willing to do a presentation for any school that would like it, FREE of course, and I am willing to put the clubs name to it if the club would agree to it. I am not in this to make money any longer. Maybe in the future when everything settles down, but as for now my knowledge is going to be put to use for education and research. Is there anyone who would also like to put some energy toward research and education?

We could probably work together with some businesses to help educate people on saltwater and reefkeeping. I may have a few contacts a Petco if the club would be interested. I also have contacts with many other companies I used to do business with. I have a vast amount of information I have attained through my work in the industry and am willing to use it for the better of all.

Lets just all work together so this club does not fall apart. Most of us are in this together.

Thanks for your time,

Rick

 

[eastonreef]

there have been a lot of very good points made. we are all so spread out it in for reasonable to have meetings period. i for one will not drive more than an hour to go to a meeting or swap. i will admit i am lazy. i dont have time to commit to taking on many responsibilities of the club that is why i did not. i paid my dues at the last swap and still do not know what they went for.
it was said we meet here on line every day. not really. this forum has been dead since the last swap. i have only seen a small handful of people posting at all. it seems more like we are the "2 swaps a year club".
i know last year after the last swap someone asked about the money. how much was raised ,, how much do we have,, what are we doing with it,, where is it,, is it in a bank drawing interest?????.
as far as the non for profit statis: i have spoken to several of local businesses and they could not care less about that status. i was told that will not determine for them whether or not they contribute to the club. the money could have been used to buy the stuff.
i also agree the school project is wonderful, but not a club effort. you cant have the club support 1 school out of the many , i am not in any way saying that mo's efforts are not wonderful, they just dont have have much to do with the club.
anyway,,,, i just feel that even when there is a meeting only the bod knows what is going on. any club i have ever supported has told me where the money is and i had a say in what to do with it.

i find myself going on the nj and the philly sites much more than here. those sites seem to have much more life. if anyone wants to have a smaller club in the allentown area i would be interested.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

more involvement, more meetings ... i think is more or less what many are saying. the many reefers in and around lehigh valley could use a closer meeting.(between philly and central/western pa)
just trying to help, this club was here before me and will probably be here past my reefing time ......i'll see a bunch of you at Calfo's speach
-are they serving?

 

[rickyfins]

Well put! I am willing to help with these issues, but as for now I have no say as I am not on the BOD or an elected official. I am though ready and willing to help, listen to club members and take all into consideration for the elections and whether or not I run. At this point I will say I am interested in running as I can not do a worse job than has already been done! Sorry, and no offense to those in charge, but I feel I could have done a better job thus far. I would for sure have the general assembly more involved. Most members not elected do not know what is going on behind the scene. Is this the MOB? Only get what you are told in as little detail as possible. I am really not up for belonging to a mob type club. I do want to help fix the gaps we have in communication. I also want to see what members really think. I can take criticism without getting mad. I am also easy to get along with and willing to work with others. So when is the next swap? OR is that not decided yet either? I think it is inportant to decide now because alot of folks are planning vacations and may need time to prepare for an event or get vacation time. Yes some may actually take vacations to do this, I have seen it before. Its all up to you, the club members, to willingly want a change and make the change happen. This is a club with elected officials. Is there such a thing as an impeachment? Just kidding and getting out of hand. I am just mad at what seems to be hush hush when its just a club and all members would like to know whats going on and have a say.

thanks hopefully,

Rick

 

[CarlC]

I really can't add much to what has already been said.

Once my dues are paid I am willing to give as much time as I have available. This might not be enough to make a change but I am willing to do what I can. Working nights puts a damper on things.

After speaking with the wife last night I can say my house is open for meetings. We'll be located in Pottsville in the next month or two.

Would it be possible to get the BOD together Friday for some questions and answers. Not an interrogation just some questions. This would probably be the best time since it will put alot of the members in one place.

Carl

 

[Fizz71]

Ok...let's see what kind of update I can give here...there were a lot of comments to address.. We'll start at the top...

embryoguy....Thanks for the sarcasm, it's really helpful at this point. Volunteers are up to you folks..and it has nothing to do with NPO status, as for donating equipment, there is something that I've been holding back on posting but I really need to say it so here it goes....

The issue with giving Reefnest money/equipment:
Bottom line...<i>Reefnest is not a legitimate organization!</i>....now....put the stones down..let me explain.... Reefnest exists because Mo says it exists; he invented it, he runs it, he IS it. Mo can correct me if I'm wrong but I do not believe the club has been registered with any official agency or given a legit fictitious name. That means that in the eyes of the government, the eyes of the law, and the eyes of general society Reefnest is no different than anybody going to a school or schools and starting a "star trek club" or "homework club" and holding bake sales to raise money. Now obviously what Mo is doing is FAR more valuable than most "clubs" I'm just using those examples so that you understand what it means to give Reefnest $1000...it means it's really being given to "Mo". If Reefnest closed up shop tomorrow, all the equipment and materials would still officially belong to Mo. He would no doubt give it away, but that's not the point..the point is that legally HE owns it, it is HIS income.

As a legit organization (NPO or otherwise) we need to keep track of who actually benefits in the eyes of the IRS. It's part of NCPARS bylaws that no one person can financially benefit from the organization. I don't have the official bylaws on hand..I only have one of the drafts, but here's the section:
Income ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ Whenever the lawful activities of the Corporation involve among other things, the charging of fees or prices for its services or products, the Corporation shall have the right to receive such income and, in so doing, may make a profit. All such profits be applied to the maintenance and operation of the lawful activities of the Corporation, and in no case shall be divided or distributed in any manner whatsoever among the Directors, officers of the Corporation, or its members.

Look at it this way...what if another NCPARS member says "hey..I have an extra tank lying around, I'm going to start a club at my kid's school...I'll get NCPARS to give me the rest of the equipment."...then the idea falls through and he walks away with equipment. I would think our members would get quite ****ed about that not to mention the BOD can get in trouble because that person now "profited". And before somebody says it..that is different from winning something in a raffle. Me personally...I trust Mo is doing the right thing...The IRS is not so trusting...And quite frankly..it's my signature on the checks so who do you think they talk to first about missing money and misused funds?

NCPARS isn't any one person..it's a collection of people run by a Board of Directors. If NCPARS falls apart tomorrow it'd be the Board's responsibility to give the leftover equipment and money to somebody else who will not profit from it either.

I hope all this makes sense...I'm not trying to belittle what Mo is doing in ANY way so if you think that I am...read it again. I'm leaving some details out out of respect for Mo...so I've said about all I can. I hope you folks understand it. Helping "Reefnest" can be a little more complicated than you think.

Now stuff like the Calfo event that Jon organized buying tickets for....we are providing education to our members and nobody in NCPARS will financially profit from it. We even agreed that we wouldn't take any of the tickets so nobody complained...I would have loved to get my hands on one..but I want to be "fair." Jon bought his own.

Having said all that...we are currently trying to decide if NCPARS can "sponsor" Zooqi's upcoming event instead of holding our own spring event and wind up being in competition with people not wanting to drive to 2 places. Instead of giving Mo money..we'd be covering expenses for the club's event....there is a difference, I hope you can see that. Conversations are being passed around between the BOD and Mo about setting this up and seeing if it's doable.

As for splitting the club...it sounds reasonable, but really if you want a small group, you should look for the smaller local clubs. That wasn't really the goal here with NCPARS...we are different from your local clubs by trying to meet a few times a year as a large conglomerate.

Oddly enough...the concept of splitting the club is a different way of wording what the board considered a while back: Create small clubs, and incorporate them into NCPARS as "members" or "chapters" and invite existing clubs as well. So what happened with that? I got a sh*tstorm of complaints that NCPARS was trying to control and take over all the clubs in PA.....You know who you are....Thanks for the heartache. So now you folks are asking to do the same thing...just rewording it differently. Sounds good to me...but I've been down that path before...no thanks.

The idea of doing 2 or 3 swaps but still asking for dues was to help support the events and speakers. We started out with free speakers or with people who didn't charge us much. And once we had money saved up to pay for speakers everybody started complaining about why we have money in the bank. Sigh. That is where it is right now..in a bank account under the organization's name. It requires two signatures to remove money so I know it's not going anywhere.

As for the "Mob" mentality....That's certainly not what we're trying to do. It's no different from any "board" really. We do want to get more people involved, but right now, the folks that stepped forward to volunteer 2 years ago are the ones who make the decisions. That will change July 1st if more people get involved. Just make sure that if you DO want to be involved that you make an effort to make our internet meetings so that we can officially vote on things. At the last meeting we didn't have enough to make any official decisions, but we got the ball rolling on looking into local schools to host the event. That's not going to happen in time so we're back to either PSU, Leesport or now...joining Mo's club event. We didn't discuss much more than that to my knowledge (I'd have to read the logs).

The bottom line is..if you want to know something..just ask. But I know I feel like I'm talking to a wall most of the time when I start threads asking for NCPARS participation and I get NO responses. Since I know folks are reading this...I'll post it.

As the president it's my responsibility to be the figure-head of what is happening. If you have questions..just ask me...PM, email, thread, whatever. But I do ask that you please ASK me, and not wait until you're p*ssed off and then B*TCH at me. That happens more often than I'd like, but it's usually from a few key people.....but it's enough that I'm really not sure if I'll run again. It's not as easy as you folks think...it's impossible to get everybody to understand what's happening let alone agree. If you don't trust me, then I don't want to be a part of it.

Anyway....

As for the positions....I don't have the official bylaws at my disposal (I'm at work), but I believe this is it:
1. President
2. Vice-President
3. Vice-President of Public Affairs
4. Secretary
5. Treasurer
6. No more than ten Directors elected at large from the Society membership

1 through 5 will be elected officials, #6 are the additional people that will sit on the board (and vote) but not be an "officer". We need to keep an odd number total...the president has no vote on issues, except to break a tie. When the dates are set we'll try to explain more....I'll also look into getting the bi-laws on our website since it's in our bi-laws that we do that!..then you can just read for yourself.

I hope I covered everybody's questions..if I didn't...please let me know. These last few days have been very stressful for me...I'm reading things that just make me straight out upset. Internet based organizations are not easy to run... All I expected to get out of being president is the satisfaction that I'm helping people with their reefs (education)....all I've gotten out of it is stress and mean-spirited people telling me I have hidden agendas and that I'm trying to control everything. SIGH....yeah..that's it. All hail King Fizz...now go paint my house. Jeez.

--Fizz

 

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6908761#post6908761 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CarlC
After speaking with the wife last night I can say my house is open for meetings. We'll be located in Pottsville in the next month or two.

Would it be possible to get the BOD together Friday for some questions and answers. Not an interrogation just some questions. This would probably be the best time since it will put alot of the members in one place.

First..we don't have NCPARS swaps at people home's anymore. Between insurance issues and potential damage...it's just not a good idea. Picnics or general gatherings...sure..but not swaps.

And meeting on Friday?...It won't happen..too short notice, too many people all over the place. Most of our schedules of "free" time don't coincide, which is why forums and emails are the best way to communicate.

How about I do this...how about I pick a Friday night sometime soon and we can just open a chat room. Whoever shows shows..whoever doesn't..their loss. I'll pick a time I know that _I_ can make it and we'll see who else is free. You can probably forget about Mal...he's working 12-16 hour days...he owns his own accounting firm and this is tax season. Sanjay can be tough to get because he travels a lot. I think Brad works odd hours so he can be tough too.....see a pattern here? But if it's what you want, then we can TRY to set something up...but not in 2 days...too soon and I personally already have plans...I'm sure other folks do too.

--Fizz

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

could posts be made as to when the net meetings are? are they only held in AOL chatrooms?(i don't have aol)

i appreciate the work you and the other board members do, just want to see if any help is needed to try to make improvements.

happy reefin:smokin:

 

[Fizz71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6908878#post6908878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by E-A-G-L-E-S
could posts be made as to when the net meetings are? are they only held in AOL chatrooms?(i don't have aol)

i appreciate the work you and the other board members do, just want to see if any help is needed to try to make improvements.

happy reefin:smokin:

The BOD meeting was in AOL Instant messenger. AIM (as it is called) is free..you don't need to me a member of AOL.

--Fizz