next meeting?
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richard snyder
New member
NCPARS
NCPARS
Hello out there
I am currently not a member of any reef club, although I was a member of the now defunct Lehigh Valley Reef Club
The short time I was a member before it shut down I enjoyed it immensley.
I was hoping someone in the Lehigh Valley area would once again start a club. I've thought about NCPARS but the broad geographical area scares me away. If I join a reef club
[ along with my 3 married and 1 single son who all keep reef tanks the largest being 450 gallon]
we want to be active and participate in the meetings and events.
I am a firm believer in monthly meetings. First to keep the interest, second to handle problems ,work out solutions before they get out of hand. Also to keep the club opperating smoothly so as to entice new members to join.
If I didn't have so much on my plate I would dive in and be willing to opperate such a club. Since that would be an immpossibility the best I can do is give my support.
That is why I am dragging my feet about joining NCPARS I want to be active and I don't feel I can do it justice with its wide area.
I did read however that someone suggested splitting the club in North and South or East and West. That sounds like a possibility
and maybe something to be considered.
Please let me via email or if you want to call me @610-972-2780
I'll be more than glad to assist
Rick
NCPARS
Hello out there
I am currently not a member of any reef club, although I was a member of the now defunct Lehigh Valley Reef Club
The short time I was a member before it shut down I enjoyed it immensley.
I was hoping someone in the Lehigh Valley area would once again start a club. I've thought about NCPARS but the broad geographical area scares me away. If I join a reef club
[ along with my 3 married and 1 single son who all keep reef tanks the largest being 450 gallon]
we want to be active and participate in the meetings and events.
I am a firm believer in monthly meetings. First to keep the interest, second to handle problems ,work out solutions before they get out of hand. Also to keep the club opperating smoothly so as to entice new members to join.
If I didn't have so much on my plate I would dive in and be willing to opperate such a club. Since that would be an immpossibility the best I can do is give my support.
That is why I am dragging my feet about joining NCPARS I want to be active and I don't feel I can do it justice with its wide area.
I did read however that someone suggested splitting the club in North and South or East and West. That sounds like a possibility
and maybe something to be considered.
Please let me via email or if you want to call me @610-972-2780
I'll be more than glad to assist
Rick
richard snyder
New member
Thanks for the encouragement CarlC
Joining a reef club has been on my mind alot lately
It's just that I don't want to join and not attend meetings because of the distance
I see your in New Ringold just alittle outside of Tamaqua, so if the club sub divided and met somewhere in the LV it wouldn't be to bad for you would it?
It would be interesting if the club did a geographical survey of the club members and plotted it out on a map.If your so inclined ,email me with some details of the clubs ativities and your feelings on things
Thanks Rick
Joining a reef club has been on my mind alot lately
It's just that I don't want to join and not attend meetings because of the distance
I see your in New Ringold just alittle outside of Tamaqua, so if the club sub divided and met somewhere in the LV it wouldn't be to bad for you would it?
It would be interesting if the club did a geographical survey of the club members and plotted it out on a map.If your so inclined ,email me with some details of the clubs ativities and your feelings on things
Thanks Rick
Rick,
I hope you don't mind but instead of emailing you privately I am going to add this to the current thread.
I have the same feelings as you about the distance. The drive to the LV for me is no big deal. I am at Something Fishy every weekend. Taking the back roads I can be there in 35-40 minutes. This is alot differant then a Interstate for 2 or 3 hours. I don't mind doing it once and awhile but more often would probably be a bit much.
Your idea of a survey would be a great starting point to decide if the club should be split. By split I mean maybe under a central BOD with regional meetings. The whole group could get together for the big events. Having the BOD far apart isn't really a problem if the internet is used. There is no reason why the BOD couldn't meet for a bit before a general meeting.
Hopefully tomorrow night a lot of things will get talked about. The current BOD hasn't had a lot of support from what I see. Maybe they deserve more support or maybe they don't. I don't know. I have not been a member. Just take this thread for example. With 90+ members under 10 have posted.
Some great idea's have been proposed so far. It will most likely be the next BOD that will get the chance to put those idea's to the test.
A few of the current board seem to really care and have put their hearts into it. Their hard work and efforts should not be put to waste.
Carl
I hope you don't mind but instead of emailing you privately I am going to add this to the current thread.
I have the same feelings as you about the distance. The drive to the LV for me is no big deal. I am at Something Fishy every weekend. Taking the back roads I can be there in 35-40 minutes. This is alot differant then a Interstate for 2 or 3 hours. I don't mind doing it once and awhile but more often would probably be a bit much.
Your idea of a survey would be a great starting point to decide if the club should be split. By split I mean maybe under a central BOD with regional meetings. The whole group could get together for the big events. Having the BOD far apart isn't really a problem if the internet is used. There is no reason why the BOD couldn't meet for a bit before a general meeting.
Hopefully tomorrow night a lot of things will get talked about. The current BOD hasn't had a lot of support from what I see. Maybe they deserve more support or maybe they don't. I don't know. I have not been a member. Just take this thread for example. With 90+ members under 10 have posted.
Some great idea's have been proposed so far. It will most likely be the next BOD that will get the chance to put those idea's to the test.
A few of the current board seem to really care and have put their hearts into it. Their hard work and efforts should not be put to waste.
Carl
bmkindig
New member
hey carl,
no offence but have you ever setup a large meeting?there is no time to have a quick official meeting it takes hours before and after a swap if the poeple that show up could just help an extra hour there would be a lot less stress on everyone
and yes it seems that members only care about swaps but won't help orginize anything.
no offence but have you ever setup a large meeting?there is no time to have a quick official meeting it takes hours before and after a swap if the poeple that show up could just help an extra hour there would be a lot less stress on everyone
and yes it seems that members only care about swaps but won't help orginize anything.
richard snyder
New member
needs help
needs help
without being a member of the club it is next to impossible for me to sit here and judge their integrity and accomplishments
I will say however that I am fully convinced that those that have the circumstances must not be passive members but get involved ask what help is needed and to the extent individually possible pitch in and help
The swap meets are the last thing on my mind, they are just a little icing on the cake
more important is comradery share with fellow reefers and the experiences shared with one another at the meetings
Since the inception of Reef Central,[ which I enjoy very much]
maybe individuals are content with the activities and forums found therein
I feel with a structured club it becomes much more personable
with true friendships being developed
PS please advise me of the out come of the meeting even though I am not amember yettttt
Thanks Rick
needs help
without being a member of the club it is next to impossible for me to sit here and judge their integrity and accomplishments
I will say however that I am fully convinced that those that have the circumstances must not be passive members but get involved ask what help is needed and to the extent individually possible pitch in and help
The swap meets are the last thing on my mind, they are just a little icing on the cake
more important is comradery share with fellow reefers and the experiences shared with one another at the meetings
Since the inception of Reef Central,[ which I enjoy very much]
maybe individuals are content with the activities and forums found therein
I feel with a structured club it becomes much more personable
with true friendships being developed
PS please advise me of the out come of the meeting even though I am not amember yettttt
Thanks Rick
Brad I have been a member of clubs much bigger and smaller than this on. The BOD of any of those clubs always meet privately before any meeting or event. The minutes of the meeting were recorded and posted for everyone to see and read. Whether I was in Germany, Belguim, Holland, Norway, or the US it was always done the same.
I guess I don't understand why the BOD feels they should be doing all the work. It is a club with members. Everyone helps to make events go well. Not just the BOD.
Carl
I guess I don't understand why the BOD feels they should be doing all the work. It is a club with members. Everyone helps to make events go well. Not just the BOD.
Carl
Carl, I very much appreciate that attitude, and we can/should try to get more setup/takedown help from more people. I know that at the meetings people are always willing to help move tables, etc., but the planning (venue, food, speaker, donations) have just been handled by the BOD. We certainly hope that if there is a functioning committee system, that there will an event committee to help with much of that, while the fundraising committee (or somesuch title) can share the work of contacting vendors for donations for raffles, etc.).
There's really no particular reason for the BOD meeting transcripts to be private other than the BOD is charged with running day-to-day operations/organization of the club, and it's nice sometimes to have a place to chat privately. The bulk of the meetings are mostly us arguing over whether dues and swap fees should be $10/12/14/24 etc. We haven't met in person just because we are spread out over the eastern half of PA. It takes those of us in State Colleg almost 3 hours to drive to the Hegins swap, for instance, and it takes Brad 2+ hours to drive to State College, which makes for a very long day after you add setup, cleanup, and 5 hour swap. So we've met electronically on AIM. More always gets done in person, but it's just been logistically hard.
There's really no particular reason for the BOD meeting transcripts to be private other than the BOD is charged with running day-to-day operations/organization of the club, and it's nice sometimes to have a place to chat privately. The bulk of the meetings are mostly us arguing over whether dues and swap fees should be $10/12/14/24 etc. We haven't met in person just because we are spread out over the eastern half of PA. It takes those of us in State Colleg almost 3 hours to drive to the Hegins swap, for instance, and it takes Brad 2+ hours to drive to State College, which makes for a very long day after you add setup, cleanup, and 5 hour swap. So we've met electronically on AIM. More always gets done in person, but it's just been logistically hard.
Fizz71
FragSwapper
I was talking to Tim or somebody last night about posting BOD meeting minutes and such... When I was the VP of the first aid squad in Jersey the Board meetings were pretty much taboo to discuss with anybody else. The RESULTS are told to the members or appropriate committees, but the conversations and minutes of the meetings were private. And the few years before when I was just a member and not on the BOD...I didn't have a problem with it.
This isn't that uncommon. The whole point of the BOD is that they are elected to that position so you need to trust they are looking out for the best interest of the club. In the case of the current BOD...it was open to anybody who wanted it when the club was formed. Starting this July the BOD will be elected like we put in our bylaws.
Let me give you a good example why BOD meetings should be private. Let's say one member thinks that another member might be doing something that violates the policy of the club. If that member has what they think might be proof, but they're not sure..they should be able to bring it to the BOD. The BOD can then meet privately to discuss what actions if any need to be taken. This is the sort of thing that you don't want public because until there is proof, you don't want that person being accused or to be ousted for something they may not have done.
This sort of thing actually happened on the BOD I was on in Jersey.. ....although NCPARS BOD meetings are usually simple stuff like Brad mentioned, there are reasons that BOD meeting are generally kept in the BOD. It has nothing to do with a secret society or mob tactics, it's actually pretty common business practice.
Occasionally an open BOD meeting is a good idea, but like I said...our stuff is pretty boring. The problems occur when people lose trust and rouse others to lose trust. And BTW..that is the real reason I won't run again. I don't want to be part of something if I'm not trusted..especially when I've done nothing wrong.
Gotta go..I'm at work..
Take care.
--Fizz
This isn't that uncommon. The whole point of the BOD is that they are elected to that position so you need to trust they are looking out for the best interest of the club. In the case of the current BOD...it was open to anybody who wanted it when the club was formed. Starting this July the BOD will be elected like we put in our bylaws.
Let me give you a good example why BOD meetings should be private. Let's say one member thinks that another member might be doing something that violates the policy of the club. If that member has what they think might be proof, but they're not sure..they should be able to bring it to the BOD. The BOD can then meet privately to discuss what actions if any need to be taken. This is the sort of thing that you don't want public because until there is proof, you don't want that person being accused or to be ousted for something they may not have done.
This sort of thing actually happened on the BOD I was on in Jersey.. ....although NCPARS BOD meetings are usually simple stuff like Brad mentioned, there are reasons that BOD meeting are generally kept in the BOD. It has nothing to do with a secret society or mob tactics, it's actually pretty common business practice.
Occasionally an open BOD meeting is a good idea, but like I said...our stuff is pretty boring. The problems occur when people lose trust and rouse others to lose trust. And BTW..that is the real reason I won't run again. I don't want to be part of something if I'm not trusted..especially when I've done nothing wrong.
Gotta go..I'm at work..
Take care.
--Fizz
Kevin and Brad,
I don't think that most of us want a real detailed description of everything that is said at the meetings. We'd just like a general idea of what is being discussed so that we feel we're in touch with our club.
As I work in a school, I've obviously had a great amount of dealings with meetings and meeting minutes. Our area is so small that our school board minutes are pretty much a discussion in the newspaper. When there is a touchy subject, the board meets in private so that the media is not printing peoples' names and such that would be inappropriate. For the event that you described Kevin, I'd certianly think that it would apply as a "private issue."
I do extensive work with the American Cancer Society and their Relay for Life. I can tell you that this non-profit organization requires us to have minutes for any meeting that takes place. There are some things that we probably don't add....such as gripes about ACS staff members, but the majority of what we discuss is there in case someone wants to know what went on.
I hate that some of the people on the board are making you feel this is personal. Personally, I just want to be informed as to what is going on. I think that people are quick to say nothing is going on if they don't see any minutes. I think if you kept the club members aware of meeting content they'd be less likely to accuse the BOD of doing nothing. I don't feel you're not doing anything. I do, however, feel we're not informed enough about what is being planned and accomplished.
I don't think that most of us want a real detailed description of everything that is said at the meetings. We'd just like a general idea of what is being discussed so that we feel we're in touch with our club.
As I work in a school, I've obviously had a great amount of dealings with meetings and meeting minutes. Our area is so small that our school board minutes are pretty much a discussion in the newspaper. When there is a touchy subject, the board meets in private so that the media is not printing peoples' names and such that would be inappropriate. For the event that you described Kevin, I'd certianly think that it would apply as a "private issue."
I do extensive work with the American Cancer Society and their Relay for Life. I can tell you that this non-profit organization requires us to have minutes for any meeting that takes place. There are some things that we probably don't add....such as gripes about ACS staff members, but the majority of what we discuss is there in case someone wants to know what went on.
I hate that some of the people on the board are making you feel this is personal. Personally, I just want to be informed as to what is going on. I think that people are quick to say nothing is going on if they don't see any minutes. I think if you kept the club members aware of meeting content they'd be less likely to accuse the BOD of doing nothing. I don't feel you're not doing anything. I do, however, feel we're not informed enough about what is being planned and accomplished.
bmkindig
New member
hey
maybe since nothing has been accomplished since oct and noone has be chating on here there they once did some people are corcerned.
i personally work in foodservice management and put in 50-60 hours on the average week and work all kinds of weird hours,i'm basiclly gutting my house in accomadate a 280 gallon tank,and proir to a swap i bet i put in 2-3 hours/day trying to get sponsors,i have 3 kids and basically maybe since the last swap i'm a little burnt out. all i can say is i try to push to get the ball rolling sometimes but this last week or so i needed the push!!!!!!!!
maybe since nothing has been accomplished since oct and noone has be chating on here there they once did some people are corcerned.
i personally work in foodservice management and put in 50-60 hours on the average week and work all kinds of weird hours,i'm basiclly gutting my house in accomadate a 280 gallon tank,and proir to a swap i bet i put in 2-3 hours/day trying to get sponsors,i have 3 kids and basically maybe since the last swap i'm a little burnt out. all i can say is i try to push to get the ball rolling sometimes but this last week or so i needed the push!!!!!!!!
richard snyder
New member
Fizz and Brad
Fizz and Brad
I'm not a member of the club yet
So if I'm out of place tell me to mind my own business and no offense will be taken
But after reading some of your comments here are my humble thoughts
#1 for members to get involved they must first be informed
[ even if the minutes of the BOD meeting must be made available to the members]
#2 It's called delegate [ you guys should know or maybe you don't, if monthly meetings are not being held ] who the reliable regulars are that can handle responsibilities at these events, then delegate
if more members pitch in events will become more plentiful
I still feel the the bigger problem is the vast geographical area covered by the club
To keep the club stronger financially the advantage would be to keep the club as one but sub divide for monthly meetings, especially since some of your BOD members are in the LV and can report back and visa versa
Again tell me to mind my own business if I stepped on any toes
A concerned reefer wanting to join a quality club
Fizz and Brad
I'm not a member of the club yet
So if I'm out of place tell me to mind my own business and no offense will be taken
But after reading some of your comments here are my humble thoughts
#1 for members to get involved they must first be informed
[ even if the minutes of the BOD meeting must be made available to the members]
#2 It's called delegate [ you guys should know or maybe you don't, if monthly meetings are not being held ] who the reliable regulars are that can handle responsibilities at these events, then delegate
if more members pitch in events will become more plentiful
I still feel the the bigger problem is the vast geographical area covered by the club
To keep the club stronger financially the advantage would be to keep the club as one but sub divide for monthly meetings, especially since some of your BOD members are in the LV and can report back and visa versa
Again tell me to mind my own business if I stepped on any toes
A concerned reefer wanting to join a quality club
Brad,
You said "maybe since nothing has been accomplished since oct"
Are you suggesting that I'm implying nothing was done since October's swap? If you read my last two sentences of the last post, you will see that is certainly not what I said. Or are you saying that nothing was done since the last swap? That would also be wrong to say since I at least know from reading posts that one member worked to give out tickets to last Friday's event.
I'm sure you could respond and tell me what all has been done since last October's swap. You would then be adding proof to my point that the members do not know what is happening. That is not personally your fault. You should be credited for coming on these posts and discussing what you as a BOD member feel. I do think, however, that you need to take one large step back, one deep breath, and stop taking this all so personally. Just because people have suggestions for improvements for the club does not negate everything you have done for the club.
I've read some posts where people are criticizing the work of individuals and naming them. I'm also not really giving credit to what those people are saying. For all I know, they may have personal agendas or vendettas for those people. Really Brad, please don't take this personally as I have not even read where someone mentioned your name in a bad light. May I repeat: It's not that the club has done nothing, it's that we as members would just like to be better informed. As far as I know, disseminating information wouldn't exactly fall under your job title.
You said "maybe since nothing has been accomplished since oct"
Are you suggesting that I'm implying nothing was done since October's swap? If you read my last two sentences of the last post, you will see that is certainly not what I said. Or are you saying that nothing was done since the last swap? That would also be wrong to say since I at least know from reading posts that one member worked to give out tickets to last Friday's event.
I'm sure you could respond and tell me what all has been done since last October's swap. You would then be adding proof to my point that the members do not know what is happening. That is not personally your fault. You should be credited for coming on these posts and discussing what you as a BOD member feel. I do think, however, that you need to take one large step back, one deep breath, and stop taking this all so personally. Just because people have suggestions for improvements for the club does not negate everything you have done for the club.
I've read some posts where people are criticizing the work of individuals and naming them. I'm also not really giving credit to what those people are saying. For all I know, they may have personal agendas or vendettas for those people. Really Brad, please don't take this personally as I have not even read where someone mentioned your name in a bad light. May I repeat: It's not that the club has done nothing, it's that we as members would just like to be better informed. As far as I know, disseminating information wouldn't exactly fall under your job title.
Fizz71
FragSwapper
I do appreciate the civil tones and comments such as these are always welcome. I guess my biggest reason for not "communicating" with the membership is that in the past I've always felt that all communications were falling on deaf ears and nobody really cared. I would post about NCPARS going to TFP and ask for photos or any help and I would get limited responses. Even to emails. I've asked for other things as well..simple things..and just got nothing back. You eventually reach the point when you say..."Why bother?! I guess all people care about are the swaps." Of course..then when 2 or 3 people finally care, you get the sh*tstorm of complaints that outsiders will read as the whole membership complaining. When really it's just a handful of people who are concerned.
I will also say that the majority of our BOD discussions are about swap details and appearances (as in..showing up someplace, not "how we look"
). Which of course we technically DO communicate when we advertise the swaps and I've always put up threads about NCPARS going to a TFP event. The only other issue that comes to my head that the BOD has discussed is the issue about how to legitimately support other ventures with NCPARS funds. And I can say that internally the BOD has had a rough time with it and making it all public would just make things worse because it's about rules and politics, not about doing the right thing which is all that most people think about.
As for the smaller clubs/meetings... I'll mention this since some of you probably don't know about it, but please people..no more nasty emails from those who do.... One of things that NCPARS looked into doing was becoming an NPO that would have "chapters" that would be local clubs like SV-SEA or anything that somebody would want to create. It would allow small clubs to have regular meetings and still be part of NCPARS to get the benefit of NPO status. This would mean the club would be a member of NCPARS and have certain rules to follow to make sure it's all legal, but the club would run independently..hence the term "chapter". NCPARS would be responsible for filing their taxes and they would have a vote in the future of NCPARS like any other member. This is a lot like what people are talking about right now, but worded differently. So why didn't we do it? Because people thought that NCPARS was trying to take over the world of reefkeeping. We received nasty letters that made it sound like we were friggin' Nazis.... We tried to explain our goals and how we certainly weren't forcing anybody to join and at certain points in time people seemed to understand it, but then 2 weeks later the nasty-grams would resume from those same people. The potential was there, but the paranoia won. If the next set of elected officials want to try to do this sort of thing, they are welcomed to try.
I hope I got to all the comments. Oh..and Richard...I have to say I got a chuckle out of the "delegate" comments...it's hard to delegate to the wind..and that's what it felt like to me.
--Fizz
I will also say that the majority of our BOD discussions are about swap details and appearances (as in..showing up someplace, not "how we look"
). Which of course we technically DO communicate when we advertise the swaps and I've always put up threads about NCPARS going to a TFP event. The only other issue that comes to my head that the BOD has discussed is the issue about how to legitimately support other ventures with NCPARS funds. And I can say that internally the BOD has had a rough time with it and making it all public would just make things worse because it's about rules and politics, not about doing the right thing which is all that most people think about.As for the smaller clubs/meetings... I'll mention this since some of you probably don't know about it, but please people..no more nasty emails from those who do.... One of things that NCPARS looked into doing was becoming an NPO that would have "chapters" that would be local clubs like SV-SEA or anything that somebody would want to create. It would allow small clubs to have regular meetings and still be part of NCPARS to get the benefit of NPO status. This would mean the club would be a member of NCPARS and have certain rules to follow to make sure it's all legal, but the club would run independently..hence the term "chapter". NCPARS would be responsible for filing their taxes and they would have a vote in the future of NCPARS like any other member. This is a lot like what people are talking about right now, but worded differently. So why didn't we do it? Because people thought that NCPARS was trying to take over the world of reefkeeping. We received nasty letters that made it sound like we were friggin' Nazis.... We tried to explain our goals and how we certainly weren't forcing anybody to join and at certain points in time people seemed to understand it, but then 2 weeks later the nasty-grams would resume from those same people. The potential was there, but the paranoia won. If the next set of elected officials want to try to do this sort of thing, they are welcomed to try.
I hope I got to all the comments. Oh..and Richard...I have to say I got a chuckle out of the "delegate" comments...it's hard to delegate to the wind..and that's what it felt like to me.
--Fizz
richard snyder
New member
Fizz
even the wind can be harnessed for good purposes and results
but I do know where your coming from
even the wind can be harnessed for good purposes and results
but I do know where your coming from
I think it's clear everyone agrees that more should be posted in the future about what's going on. I agree with someone's comment (lost it now) that perhaps the whole transcript doesn't have to be posted, but at least the gist and any decisions/plans that were made. I hope after the elections we have a secretary or someone who can help correct our problems in that regard.
Clearly, there is something of a chicken and egg problem with help/volunteers/delegation and information. We can start to fix that at the elections meeting [to be announced soon]. I appreciate the several positive comments here and urge everyone to consider running to be on the BOD, or just to volunteer when we discuss committees/options/etc.
Clearly, there is something of a chicken and egg problem with help/volunteers/delegation and information. We can start to fix that at the elections meeting [to be announced soon]. I appreciate the several positive comments here and urge everyone to consider running to be on the BOD, or just to volunteer when we discuss committees/options/etc.
