next meeting?

It took long enough for me to **** you off so you would explain things. Thanks finally Fizz you get it! I am more relieved today than yesterday before your post! It is about time the pot was sturred. I really haven't heard from anyone else from the BOD except for Brad/BUBBA.

thanks,

Rick
 
Fizz please understand I am not trying to come down on anyone, you especially. Since you seem to be the only one willing to answer any questions or make a appearance things are getting directed at you. This was not my intention.

Carl
 
It's very tough not to take things personally as the "President" but I do know that most folks are relying on me to be the figurehead so I take the brunt and I'm the one they expect to explain things. There are times when I can't be on here for several days, so I know how it is for the others.

What needs to happen are things like Jon did...He came up with a good idea, worked it through, asked permission from the rest of the BOD, got it, did it and things are working out. We are always open to ideas, but people need to be willing to actually do the work too. We don't have enough volunteer support to fill the committees. We posted a thread a while back for help with that and got no response.

Hopefully things will get active again....but really my vision for this club on the short term was just to organize a few big events a year, and congregate here on RC whenever somebody has trouble and needs help.

Getting NPO was long and painful (and expensive) but we are there. But now that we are there, people seem to be calling it quits because we aren't throwing parades every week. :)

We'll get there...well..not the parades, but we'll get somewhere.

--Fizz
 
WOW another long post!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW another long post!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Fizz:

First. we don't have NCPARS swaps at people homes anymore. Between insurance issues and potential damage...it's just not a good idea. Picnics or general gatherings...sure. but not swaps

Isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t a picnic or general gathering a SWAP? Tricky rewording does not work for me. Are you an attorney by any chance. Do not take this personal Fizz, I like you as a person and as a hobbyist. I had a nice time talking to you at TFP oh so long ago. This is in the general direction of all. I mean everything I have been saying. It just seems like you went to the school of Malcolm or something.



Can you post, email, and call all members to make sure they know when the meeting is so there isn't any question why people do not attend? I think it is important. As for Mal, touchy subject with me, but if he is too busy he shouldn't be as involved as he is, and that goes for anyone who is involved. Items of interest need to be addressed so BOD meetings need full attendance, as well as input from all. Committees? I don't think anyone knows what these committees are for, or why ncpars needs them? I know that I don't know where you are heading with this. I think a lack of communication on the part of BOD and all members in charge are the cause of this dilemma. It really is a fault that needs to be looked at. I wouldn't slam people if there werenââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t a problem. Its not like I am coming out of the woodwork, I just can't sit by and let this happen any longer. Its not that I am unhappy you or NCPARS isn't throwing a parade or sending me a card, I am upset that once the NPO status was attained and I am still assuming that it happened because I see no proof as of yet, the people in charge have called it quits before the general assembly have. Your last swap in my eyes was a horrible mess. Actually it has been a mess since the beginning, but that is a whole different matter. I have sat in at one BOD house for a meeting some time back and you guys never agreed on anything, you chat and move off topic and cannot conclude anything important at these meetings. At least that is what I saw. I think all business related topics of NCPARS should be on the NCPARS website and not on RC. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s unethical. I am only posting here as NCPARS has made this our avenue of communication. Listen here Mr. Mystery or Mr. Sidestep; it is as though there isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t any initiative from anyone. We the general assembly would get more involved if we knew in advance, knew what involvement was needed, knew what was needed, and knew what went on behind closed doors. We are either told in a round about way or not told at all. There isnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t any formal announcement for anything (newsletter) other than swaps.

Your vision of the club is not what the general assembly is looking for. We are looking to do this together, make decisions together Fizz. We don't want just one guys vision or we would be involved in a Rulership or Domination club. I thought this was a democracy.

As for what Jon did, I dont know what he did. I wasnt there, I don't know what is working out. I just know you have been very vague about a lot of things. THIS GOES FOR THE CLUB AS A WHOLE! Don't defend people that are busy and can not make it, its tacky and unprofessional. Just say Mal can not make it. Let him defend himself. I know that he can not defend himself and won't explain my opinion of him here. I think its funny you mentioned Mal owning an accounting firm but conveniently left out the part of him owning an online retail shop that sells livestock and drygoods in the aquarium industry. You state, do you see a pattern here? Well why talk down about it and talk negatively toward it already, why make it sound like it will never happen when you haven't tried yet? Its as though this has already failed. I have never been negative about this or anything. If you think bad, bad happens.


Thanks,

Rick
 
I wish I could take credit for the idea of buying tickets for members of the club but that was embryoguy's idea. I was just able to put it in motion.


Our NPO status has just recently become official. I'm guessing it took 2 years to get the funds, get the paperwork, get everything signed, etc. So we are good to go on that side.

I don't want to say anything wrong or make anyone mad. But the members of the BOD aren't sitting in a dark room making decisions about the club and keeping people in the dark. We basically make the decisions on the swap dates, where we will hold the swaps. Decide on the budget for food, raffle items, door prizes, etc. That's it! Then we announce dates, get volunteers that are close to the area the swap will be held to set up, make the food, clean up afterwards and so on.

I think what we are finding out from most of you now is that you want more meetings. Which in the initial formation of NCPars was for NCPARS to hold large swaps 3 to 4 times a year. It was never the intention to hold monthly meetings due to us being so spread apart.

Now the hobby is getting bigger. There are more and more people coming into the hobby. So now under NCPARS status we can probably have more localized meetings but still have NCPARS hold the large swap events.

Jon
 
fizz--i have nothing personal against you but you have some nerve calling others sarcastic. every one of your posts is replete with sarcasm.
i am the treasurer at church and i account to all the members. each month i report the bal from last month ,, any expenses,, any profits,, interest,, etc. every member has access to all the records. all people have been asking for is information and after all the long posts i dont know much more than i did before.
the tone of your posts are condisending, arrogent and patronising.
the club should incourage more members to join, not chase the current ones away.
 
If you folks new some of the emails I've gotten for doing nothing more than trying to help people...you'd understand my defensive and often sarcastic tone. I've really had it with the whole thing. I hope somebody in here is planning on running for President because come July 1st I'm done. The old saying of no good deed goes unpunished holds true again. I can't keep getting myself upset over a club about reef keeping.

As for Mal..there's more going on than his business. I mention him and defend him because I do talk to him about what's going on..he just doesn't have the time to read through all the non-sense.

You know what Ricky...check this line out:
As for what Jon did, I dont know what he did. I wasnt there..

....What Jon did is listed in a post no more than 3 or 4 away from this one on the list. So obviously you haven't read the threads. We've also chatted up about making it to NPO, what committees are out there and lots of other stuff I'm guessing you didn't read. So stop complaining.

I'm through arguing.

--Fizz

PS. We chat here instead of NCPARS.org because here is where most of us found NCPARS...and we hope to find others the same way. You look at SV-SEAs chat room and the club looks dead..not that it is..it just looks that way because they keep there chatting on their site.
 
hey all
enough with the fizz bashing he's a good guy and tries to do the right thing but he needs to stay on neutal groud he is basiclly trying to give out some answers.i know i'm not the right person to give out all the answers because my intentions maybe good but the words come out wrong.
 
i made this thread to see when the next meeting was. wasn't bashing, just asking ?'s
Some others obviously have some concerns. I too would like more meetings, however set-up.

hey brad, you gonna stop by S.F. friday?
 
well, I see my name in every single line here. I got few phone calls, emails, PM's about this thread. I try to stay clams as I'm upset the way this club has turned. In Mid 2001 I was honored to meet Larry (Tagamet) and we traded xenias and corals and once every other week we used to get together and talk about fish tanks. Then we had another reefer Joe (Snookie) who was starting a new tank and needed help. I attended URS first meetings and learned that why not to have meetings and teach at the same time. I talked to Larry and Joe and told them that I will be hosting a meeting at my house. I posted in reefcentral, reefs.org about it and was not sure where exactly to post but got enough replies from people and you can go back to my old threads and see who attended. I believe we had about 42 people. I spent $300 on just food and more on drinks. Alot of people helped and brough food, everybody was invited and it was like a family meeting. Everybody helped cleaning too. I had some stuff in the basement for people to see how to build them like wavemaker and wanted to do more but time was tight. After that meeting and meeting everybody there we started to chat and I told them about another meeting at my house. I bought some corals at cost, salt (red sea was $24 a bucket) and did that to draw people to the meeting. I hate to say how much money I lost at that meeting but at the end we had twice more people and that made me happy. Brad meeting was another educational meeting where we drilled tanks, built skimmer. It was not enough for me because I always thought that clubs should be to educate members and to educate public about ocean. After talking to few who attended the meeting they offered to help with the meetings and it was not fair that I do and take all the expense. Tagamet told me ," Mo, don't do it and you are doing fine being in control" I told him , " I think it is great and if this club is growing like this with few people working it will grow alot faster with more poeple being in charge. " and his reply was," sometimes many people involve nothing is done ". I was happy to see a man at my house and his name was Sanjay who I had no idea that he is an expert in this area. After talking to Sanjay he thought like I did and thought the club will do well with group. One meeting at Hegins we had the same amount of people we did at my house. I had a vision if this club is active, show you are active the number of attendance will double. It started to drop and did not think much of it even if it upsets me. I tried and did everything and gave full credit to NCPARS, I was called to help with school and I told them that NCPARS is helping, I went fishing and I called it NCPARS trip, I went in vacation and called it NCPARS trip. Everything I did I made sure I said NCPARS. After seeing that the club is just planning swap dates and nothing else and all was in mind was to gather money and was not spent on anything. Club did not have money to go NPO and I offered to pay for that if that's what it needs to make it move but all I heard is , " you can't do that and is not fair ". and I said i don't care if that's what it takes to keep us moving and those at the meeting can confirm that too.

Club started to have membership, raffles ( and in many cases I bought stuff for the raffle, full corals for raffles, food for the meetings and we did not have many sponsors to start with except something fishy who helped us at each meeting. Brad, Tim and Sanjay did alot of contacts and got more sponsors that we did not have first and I had to spend on them to bring more people. Club started to save money that covers NPO, meetings. I finally told the club to help (not fully sponsor) with some of the schools since I have been putting NCPARS on the name and many sponsors have donated because we have been telling them we are helping education and schools. I did not ask the club to sponsor a whole tank and asked them for some like get me some salt, get me anything so it will be fair for me to give full credit to the club. This was before NPO. I asked to go to any sponsor like TFP and get something to help me with this but for some reasons this did not go through and even with everybody's vote we ended up with one vote that ruled all votes.

Members of the club acted well and helped at the last meeting and mainly was individuals here and there and nothing yet from NCPARS. Everytime I had a suggestion to do something it never went through. Many others in the club had suggestions and nothing was done. Sanjay told the club members (just note this is before NPO) that he will arrange a speaker, have him stay at his house and all expenses that the club would spend should help a school but that did not go through. Many try to help but nothig was done. I was trying to help NCPARS name and give them credit for helping education that they have been claiming to sponsors and I did not think is right to do that. The help that I asked is not even .10 of what I have spent on the club and schools. I needed the club to be more active, more educations, more meetings, less talk, help bring new people to the hobby, help public. And for those who say that we don't need to educate public or PA I say that," you are wrong big time". we do need to educate people and in my view we need to pass our reefing experience, fraging, breeding to everybody and more we educate more we have people in our side to protect ocean. And those who say I won't help a tank that I can't see, I tell them that sorry that I can't carry that tank around to your area so you can see. Everybody is welcome to come and see those tanks. There are plenty of pictures in REEFNEST. There are thousands of kids see those tanks and they are learning. Half of those tanks don't have live rock and have rocks that we made to protect the ocean (this is education by itself). Some say that all the tanks are mine and I'm gaining from it and my answer is that you are wrong again and those tanks are given to the schools and once they are there I'm not moving them out and if I did I will do it with school permission and replace it with a bigger and better one and you guys know that I did that too. Those who say corals are mine, you are wrong and I have given them to the school so they can sell frags to cover salt, expeses. I have placed an order of $1500 last week and guess what guys most of the shippment was dead or dead and did not ask a school for a $1 for it and we have people here will tell you about it since they work in that area and they helped me put them away. Last week I gave a whole nano setup to a student for free and I paid for it total cost $110 and you can call Montoursville High School and ask Mr Huff if they paid $1 for that. I have good hearted people support me, help me, and some who have seen what I have done don't mind making any contact for me to get me through any school and trust me thier voice is heard. When i get any help, donation I make sure I show the donnor sooner or later where his stuff went and most of the time with pictures to show everybody. REEFNEST started few months ago and you can go to our forum
and see what have we accomplished in the last few month with only few people working hard and we are doing it because we hear good stuff from people, kids ask questions, they tell us what they learned and maybe someday one of these kids take this to a bigger level and help protect ocean. We have monthly meetings, we are working to set next year fras swap date (looking forward to see everybody and your being there is a support itself), going to All Ohio Frag Swap to set a table to teach stuff, having May 6 frag swap.
We finally got teachers, students in Montoursville High School feed fish and working to teach them more about it. Everyday we see more interest in the tank and they always like to say, " I love ocean and this tank reminds me of ocean ",
Cousteau once said, "People only protect what they love, but they can only love what they know ." so there goes few who started to learn about the ocean. I really appreciate those who support us with all they can and we need every support.
I can talk all night about stuff we have done but you will see the info in REEFNEST forum. :)

guys I did not mean to offend anybody and sorry if I did and nobody offended me but the only offend I get is when somebody thinks that public education, schools, club education is not important.
 
you tell em mo....all i know if if it werent for mo, my little girl wouldnt be involved in aquariums...she adores him, not cuz his accent not cuz hes cut eto the ladies, but because he talks to her, he gives her responciilities, and im sure he would give her tanks loaded with corals and fish, but i wont allow that...my tasnk has been setup for 6 months lets say, now if i had to join a club so someone could tell me what im doin wrong, so someone could educate me and my 6 yr old girl about salt reefs then i would have stayed with a stupid frogtank....i give mo all props to what he does, matter of fact im glad i met mo we have good times talkin reefs goin on trips, and i dont mind spending what little money i have to help him with what he does...why swhould i eat, and have all these luxuries, when my 6 yr old girl and ebveryone elses children dont have it, thats where mo comes in play...he spends his families money for other children, that isnt right, and when he calls and needs something...ill do what i can to give it to him...im not a memeber of ncpars, thank god to that b/c everytime i go in there i never see anything on education or anything, people ask questions and they dont get replies..id rathyer be with a group of people who arent so worried about the political side of small orghanizations.....and focus more on the newcomers who need the help....if you want that attention come to reefnest, its free, you dont have to pay when you ask simple questions like what should the temperature of my reef be? someone in reefnest is always ready to help, not criticize like some other clubs i have seen...our monthly meetings are awesome, we dont cry about memberships, we dont cry about whos spending money, we all help, somehow someway...i went to the spend store spend 20 bucks once a month and give the stuff away.....other clubs make me pay 35 dollar membership so i can find out where the club is let alone learn anything for my 6 yr old daughter...so im sry for this i thinki its all childish...and im happy not paying for free literature, free knowledge in other clubs...thank god mo doesnt charge me everytime i have questions, i would be eating rice and ramon noodles for dinner everynight..Mo my little girl loves ya and so does everyone elses children, you gotta quit helpin people, its giving you good props....lol...need anything let me know...
 
Thank you and your little girl is like my kid and good to see her interested in the aquarium. Thanks for the good words. I can't cretisize clubs I don't belong to but NCPARS is my heart and maybe with a little move move we can get somewhere. We do what we can best and if we can't do it right and can't catch up with those who are working hard and willing then we don't start throwing rocks at them and step down and let somebody else take the job.
Spoon, with the rate we are going soon I will be inviting more people who have kids and learned from REEFNEST to come to our monthly meeting.
One more thing,, who said I don't charge you. Wait untill you see your bill $$$$$$$ good try :)

Guys lets just let this go and this is not the first time we go through this and lets plan the next meeting and hopefully we can learn to be more organize than we are. We know the dates for PMAS meetings for next year and we still don't know what is going on with Spring meeting which is few weeks from now.





Lets plan it guys and all the talk that was said about me in last night chat room was not nice and yes I'm not from here originally but this should not be a reason I should not be part of education. My English is not that good but I try my best. Most of you know me well and been to my house, seen my family and I don't want to discuss my personal life here or anybody else have the right to talk about my personal life. Nobody should speak about my personal life if they don't have **it idea about it. All I care about is I do the right thing and as a matter of fact I need to save my time and get out to go to Montoursville High School to get it ready to be 100% MOROCK.
 
:) grow your own tomatoes and as a matter of fact I do have to get few things for wife for her green house she is building(oops I forgot).
 
Thanks for the voice of reason Mo and your post was very well put. Believe me when I tell you that I am just as upset as you are about the whole ordeal. Whether people realize that or not is another story. I wish that politics didn't need to play a factor...but it does. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but there is something about signing checks of "other people's money" that makes me nervous. You are a do-er...no argument from me on that...I just know that doers can often get bit in the *** for what they do, no matter how noble the cause. ...I've been there with other things I've been involved in.

I hope we can get this sponsorship of your event to go through; we need to keep the dialogue going. We need to keep people like you in the club you started.

But we do need to walk the fine line of helping the "doers" but not upsetting other members because what you are doing may not be in their interest. It's a catch-22.

And I think it's important for those that don't already know....I didn't "hijack" the club like I've heard people say...the presidency was offered to Mo and he turned it down for personal reasons. I believe it was then offered to Sanjay because of his station in the industry and HE turned it down. It was offered to Tim (ByTor) next because his knowledge of reef keeping is paramount but HE turned it down. I didn't ask for the responsibility...nobody else wanted it...and foolish me..I thought I was doing something good by taking it. So please...anybody who wants to help "re-build" what you think NCPARS should be...run for an office.

BTW Mo...I only mentioned your name because you are pretty much known on here as the man who's actually doing something...so it makes you an easy reference...not just by me.

Keep up the good work.


--Fizz
 
WOW, its funny how your position has changed Fizz. I am glad to hear some sense coming from you. I am going to run in the election, that is if the club wants me there. I am here to help and not disrupt things. I really want to move forward, that is the reason and the only reason you have heard my voice. I keep pretty quiet in reality. Well unless I am talking about reefs. I am opinionated but usually keep that to myself as well. When something is going wrong, I can't shut up. Lets move forward, lets change things for the better. Finally communication is moving better than it has in months. Fizz don't hide from us, we are in this together. Even though we might not see eye to eye doesn't mean we don't like one another. Just look at Kelly from Corals N More, we really don't like each other, but we do believe in whats right. Even competitors or former competing businesses can get along for a good cause. See Kelly and Rich and I have similar visions of what we see out there. We also have a deep passion for the reef, thus our business ventures. We can work as a team even though we may not be on the same page!

thanks,

Rick
 
Thanks Fizz for the reply and lets go to the next step. I have the date of the meeting and if NCPARS wants to be part of this event then we need to know ASAP and not few weeks before the meeting. We are planning a little ahead of time to give everybody a chance to plan too. I'm sure there will be few excuses this time too but we will see if we can work together and get it going. Lets do something and lets change the way things moving.
 
I'm glad to see discussion of all this here too. The key is that we need people. Kevin has been the main person working to organize our events, and he has a life too; he's organized everything that has happened, but pretty much just gets grief. The problem is that each thing we've worked to do to lay a base has ended up taking us longer than expected. For instance, with elections, we were planning to have them by internet right after the last swap, but when we (credit Kevin here) looked at the bylaws, they didn't really allow us to do legit elections by internet. That's largely the BOD's fault (and mine as one of the main bylaw drafters)- when we put in a clause to allow internet voting, we didn't see how it clashed with other rules about election procedures. So, we have to wait for an in-person meeting. It's things like that have slowed some of the momentum of the group.

One note about one frustrating thing, when we posted threads to ask for volunteers for committees, and for the board of directors, we had exactly 1 person express interest. Not even ask a question like "what is this committee." Someone said they thought it was silly for members of the BOD to say they didn't have more time - why be on the BOD if you don't have time? Well, we all have other stuff to do; this is a hobby. But more importantly, if no one else wants to join the BOD or work on activities, then unfortunately busy people are what we have to deal with. I'd be happy to let someone else be on who wants to devote more time than me, we just need interested people. I haven't seen a flood of those people, I hope we get them.

The other thing I'd like to encourage is more specific suggestions of what the club should do, and then for the people suggesting the ideas to help develop them. The BOD needs to back those ideas, and some have been mentioned on this thread, but we need more to follow up on. We have the "support educational stuff" proposals nearly finalized, but after that? So bring ideas to the meeting, or post here (and then we'll recruit you to help with them, too).
 
Barney,
The problem for me is, in part, one of time. I spend a great deal of time with my students in and out of school. Additionally, I give a lot of my time to volunteering with the American Cancer Society. As both of those time consuming things are obviously very valuable in an obvious way, I'm certainly not going to give them up anytime soon. I also have a hard time justifying giving time to the club for two reasons: #1 As a member, I have no idea what the club is doing. I do not fault this to the President as, in any organization I have ever belonged to, disseminating information to the club members is not in the job responsibilities of the President. #2 I cannot justify the good that the club is doing at this point. We were once asked if we could go out and get donations for a swap. I, first off, have a hard time going to a store and asking for a donation when I do not have the ability to say how the community or humanity will benefit from their donation. My club at my school has kids doing community service all the time. When they ask for donations, it is my job to make a letter for tax purposes. I have yet to have problems coming up with the positive impacts of our projects. I cannot say that I'd be able to, in good faith, say what the benefits of NCPARS are.

I'm not very happy to read the negativity on this post. I feel, however, that communication is the key. Back in the beginning of our club, there was more information passed down to the rest of us. I remember having posts where we even voted on where and when to have our swaps. Our organization is getting slammed right now by members because it is only about swaps, but right now we're not even doing that. The idea of a swap seemed to be passed around and then dropped. I agree with Mo that people's schedules get pretty tight when it comes to Spring. I, personally, asked when the swap was going to be some time back. Mo answered me on his swap, but there was no response from anyone in NCPARS. At this point, I don't know that there would be too many weekends that I would be able to go. I've scheduled things around Mo's swap, but if I don't have a date for NCPARS', how can I possibly schedule around it?

My suggestion is that the secretary needs to put posts on the board telling us what is being done. We need to have some direction as to where our club is heading. We also need to stop bashing our own members, whether we agree with them or not. Perhaps, if we had direction and knew the good our club was going to do, we'd be more apt to put time into it. As it is, I just can't see giving up my time for something I truly don't understand. I, like many others that post, am starting to wonder why I'm even giving money to it. With good communication, a club member would know these answers.
 
My "position" hasn't changed Ricky. This is all politics. It's never been about my opinion of Mo or what he's done and continues to do. Mo is great guy...I have nothing against him at all.

Money complicates everything. All my suggestions/comments are based on what I feel is best for ALL and not just the ones that voice their opinions. We have one poster above that mentioned how they wouldn't want all our money going to tanks and people that they don't even get to see. I'm sure there are others that feel the same way. All it takes is one ***hole to start trouble about where the money is going. This is not the first NPO I've been a part of. I was VP of a volunteer first aid squad (ambulance service for several thousand people), I've seen what money can do and it's not pretty.

People complain about us not helping Mo out..and that's not true. NCPARS members ARE helping Mo out...NCPARS encourages people to donate to him, we gave him time to speak at the last swap, gave him 2 big tables to sell things, we let him hold a 50/50 raffle. At the last TFP event we tried to get people to donate to him...and put up displays of his tanks. Mo was supposed to come to answer questions but he gave us some lame excuse about his wife's birthday (Just kidding Mo! I can't believe you forgot, shame on you! :) ). From what I can see is people aren't satified with "what NCPAPS is doing" unless we're cutting him a check. I know Mo is about more than that. If NCPARS is the reason YOU found Mo and Reefnest, and YOU'VE donated to him, then NCPARS HAS helped Mo out. But nobody wants to count that. I've given Mo corals, I've bought some stuff from Mo...I know it's not a lot, but if everybody gives a little it helps. And Mo has always shown his appreciation for it too....

Making decisions to keep everybody happy is d*mn near impossible. Hence...why I hate politics. We do what we can.

--Fizz
 
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