No one can figure this out so far........

Could be the snail killer....or more likley a combination of things going on. Instability/copper/pH/Alk fluctations and possibly something we havent come up with yet. Best bet is to try to get things to stabilize, dont keep changing things evertime you get advice on what it is. The cuprisorb was a good idea IMO.

Keeping a scavenger resin in the tank like cuprisorb will absorb copper if/when it was ever released from the substrate/silicone of the tank.

One last thing to point out is to make sureyou are really careful to acclimate your snails (and echinoderms) throughly. Many LFS dont acclimate so dropping new animals into your tank at home is one more shock their (delicate) systems. Acclimate your snails very slowly, drip-acclimate or self acclimate (search for how to do this on here).

Worse yet, a lot of LFS keep their salinity low (as low as 1.020) to combat parasites. While that isnt really bad for fishes, I have seen LFS that keep their inverts in hypo as well. The shock of going from the ocean at 1.026 to a holding tank at who knows what to a LFS at 1.020 and then into your tank at 1.025+ often leaves the animal super shocked and dying.
 
The copper wire could be it. Copper will absorb onto sand, rock, and into algae growing on those rocks, etc. Snails can get it be eating contaminated algae, and not just from the water.\

From big known copper contamination issues, like a FO where copper was used, I suggest that folks discard the substrate and usually the rock too. But I'd stress we still aren't sure it is the problem here.

This article has more on metals:

Reef Aquaria with Low Soluble Metals
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-04/rhf/feature/index.htm


Are you the one with the most?

At RC, yes. Here's the top 50 posters:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/memberlist.php?s=&what=topposters&perpage=50
 
Excellent article on metals in reefkeeping.

I did drip acclimate the snails for 1 1/2 hours. I guess for now I'll keep the water chem within perameters and change out the carbon and keep skimming. I'll also leave the absorbent beads in for awhile. I'll test for copper with a better kit when I get one to see if the one I have been using was off.
 
How much cuprisorb did you use? In this case less would be better, in that at trace level Cu it would be difficult to see a distinct color change in the resin. Using less media might take longer, but there's a better chance for a positive color change.
 
Again I am no scientist nor an alchemist nor that of a metallurgist but I find it hard to believe that a copper thermal couple would dissolve any worthy amount of copper in only a weeks time. Again I do not claim to know what I am talking about. ;)
 
Rascal, I used 3 packets for a 180 g tank. I agree with you about the color change but I wanted to rid the tank of copper if it was the problem. I just checked the color and they are the same as when I put them in new. but if it just traces of copper will they even change color much? I just don't know.

wmam, I also agree with you, only a week but I sure don't know what else could be going on. I am just one step away from just discarding the rock and sand all together and starting over with new. But I am going to let ride for a short time to see if I can get it turned around. Another thing is if I do start over, I'm affraid I could have the same problem and back to square one.

It just has me so puzzled I don't know what to do next. I want to thank everyone who has offered information to help me resolve this, especially Randy. Maybe in time I can resolve the problem. Please keep the thread going. I need all the help I can get. If anyone has anything to add please let me know.

One more thing I might mention is when I put a snail in, it only lasts a day or two. The clam I had lasted about 3 weeks and died slowly. The star pollop has just a few fingers out and is also dying slowly. All of the fish are doing great so it is still just the inverts and they just die slowly.
 
I wouldn't expect much of a color change with 3 bags of cuprisorb, though like you suggested it would have the greater effect of removing copper more effeciently and quickly.

One other idea...do you have any 'weird' types of algae. I have seen dinoflagellates bloom in an aquarium. One in particular was Gambierdiscus toxicus. It was quite nasty. Snails hated it.

If that's possibly the case, you need to look at what is 'fueling' the bloom. Maybe consider changing/upgrading your salt...I prefer Tropic Marin.

Just throwing out another idea (at 4:30 am)...
 
As of now there is no algae bloom at all and has been that way fro 6 to 8 months now. I have 2 lawn mowers and they clean most of what grows now.

The ca level and ph are right on as far as the drop tests show. All perameters are correct and have been for a couple of weeks. I was thinking about doing a total water change but I'm not sure cause I don't want to shock the fish. I think I'll let it sit and keep testing for now.
 
im not sure but does high calcium causes low ph?

Not directly no. If alkalinity is normal, the pH is unrelated to the calcium.

One more thing I might mention is when I put a snail in, it only lasts a day or two. The clam I had lasted about 3 weeks and died slowly. The star pollop has just a few fingers out and is also dying slowly. All of the fish are doing great so it is still just the inverts and they just die slowly.

I'd still try that in a different test tank using the same water. :)
 
I have a 30 gal I was using for a refugium and I might just use it for a different test tank. But what will I gain by doing this? If I use the same water, a snail will die for sure beacause it's the same water, right? Or if it lives, then what might be wrong?
 
If we all were so worried about something dying so much then none of us would be in this hobby to begin with. Sometimes things happen beyond our control and knowledge. I personally would set it up and try it. Maybe even a damsel. You know ................ you might find that it might just have been something to do with flow and lighting for the xenia. Maybe even the high nitrates. The snail...... like I said it could have had problems before. Who knows. You will never get through this unless you try. Go for it. ;)
 
I have a 30 gal I was using for a refugium and I might just use it for a different test tank. But what will I gain by doing this? If I use the same water, a snail will die for sure beacause it's the same water, right? Or if it lives, then what might be wrong?

If it dies, it proves it wasn't something physical in the tank (electricity, etc), and not something it ate in the tank (like contaminated algae).
 
I had another 60 gal setup I sold a friend of mine. He also had the same problem with his tank. We were both using some charcoal we aquired which is supposed to be lab quality. He quit using it when his problems started because he didn't want to waste it. He wanted to solve the problems and then continue to use it. He did a few water changes and never used the charcoal again and his tank is doing great now. He thinks the charcoal could have been the broblem in his. Could there be something about this charcoal that is messing up the chem of the tank? When I put it in new it crackles and looks like it's working.
 
One other thing I forgot to say. I got my ph meter and probe for a ca reactor I'm in the process of making and they don't read the same. The hand held reads 7.8 and the probe controller reads 8.1. I don't know which one is off. They are both Milwaukee brand. Looks like I'll have to cal one of them.
 
I re-calibrated both meters and they were both off. They both read 8.1 now when I put them in the tank and sump. The hand held was no problem but the instructions for the probe/controller said to use 7.0 fluid and 4.0 fluid and I didn't quite understand that. I did cal it for the 7.0 fluid though. Also, the instructions to the hand held said to store it in water but not ro/di water. Why store it in water at all? How do you store it?
 
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