bigfoot610
New member
excessive po4 will kill stuff BTW especially corals
No one can figure this out so far........
- Thread starter luv2dive
- Start date
Lack of iodine supplements will not kill corals. In fact, the majority of experienced RC reefers do not dose iodine.
Polyfilters (maybe different than what you mean by a polyester filter) will not release substantial phosphate into the tank, especially if you use them for only a few days as a test. Elevated phosphate seems to only be a big problem for calcifying organisms (like hard corals or coralline algae), not soft corals, typically.
Polyfilters (maybe different than what you mean by a polyester filter) will not release substantial phosphate into the tank, especially if you use them for only a few days as a test. Elevated phosphate seems to only be a big problem for calcifying organisms (like hard corals or coralline algae), not soft corals, typically.
I just tested for phosphates (using the drops) and they are 0 now. The ph is normal too but the new zenias I just put in are dying already.
There is allot of coraline algae in the tank and it seams to be growing well. I forgot to mention this earlier but i don't know if a possible copper problem would matter to the coraline. And like Randy said, were not sure if it is copper yet. I sure wish I had a better test kit to read copper so I could rule it out or not.
There is allot of coraline algae in the tank and it seams to be growing well. I forgot to mention this earlier but i don't know if a possible copper problem would matter to the coraline. And like Randy said, were not sure if it is copper yet. I sure wish I had a better test kit to read copper so I could rule it out or not.
I don't know if copper impacts coralline algae at levels that might kill other inverts.
boxfishpooalot
Active member
I suggest you stop putting in organisms untill you correct the problem/figure it out. 
Just getting caught up on this thread. I think the copper resin..i.e. seachem cuprisorb, might be something to consider as it will provide a positive color change. Be sure to put it where it will get active water flow.
Where did you get your substrate from? Any chance it came from a used fish tank...that used copper at one time? Anything else that might be leaching Cu?
One last suggestion. I might consider taking an R.O. sample to another place to be tested. In fact I recommend taking 2 samples...1 R.O. and another straight tap. And don't tell them which is which. Wait for the results. Kinda like going to a mind reader and telling them about your problems before you even get started.
Where did you get your substrate from? Any chance it came from a used fish tank...that used copper at one time? Anything else that might be leaching Cu?
One last suggestion. I might consider taking an R.O. sample to another place to be tested. In fact I recommend taking 2 samples...1 R.O. and another straight tap. And don't tell them which is which. Wait for the results. Kinda like going to a mind reader and telling them about your problems before you even get started.
Ok, now I am using the drop style test kit which tests for everything and some things were reading incorrect when I was using the test strips which I will explain in a minute.
Even though the copper test was negative, I put in 3 cuprisorb-205 pads. They are still the same color but have only been in for 24 hours and I will leave them in for awhile to see if the beads change color. I thought if there was copper, enough to kill the clam and zenias, it would have shown by now but we'll see. I have nothing to lose by leaving them in for awhile.
I have done so many water changes I thought the best thing would be to get the water chemistry correct then go from there. So here are the latest test results. 77 deg, SG-1.025, NH4-0,
NO2- 0, NO3-5, Ca-450, PO4-0, and I even tested for Fe (iron) and it was 0. Now here is where it gets rough for me.
I'll list these three seperate 'cause I think they are way out of whack. This test kit reads a low and a high PH. On the low test it reads over 7.6 and on the high range it didn't read a correct color. Where it was supposed to be dark blue it was purple and the darkest blue on the chart was 8.7 which tells me it was way over that, I think. The KH (alk) test was 170 which is way high also. The KH is supposed to be 105-125 according to the test instructions. So here is my question: Isn't pH a measuring scale with KH (alk) at the higher end and acidic reading at the lower end? And If this is true my pH is very high and would this kill the snails, clams and inverts but not the fish?
Now how do I lower the pH and get it within tolerance?
Even though the copper test was negative, I put in 3 cuprisorb-205 pads. They are still the same color but have only been in for 24 hours and I will leave them in for awhile to see if the beads change color. I thought if there was copper, enough to kill the clam and zenias, it would have shown by now but we'll see. I have nothing to lose by leaving them in for awhile.
I have done so many water changes I thought the best thing would be to get the water chemistry correct then go from there. So here are the latest test results. 77 deg, SG-1.025, NH4-0,
NO2- 0, NO3-5, Ca-450, PO4-0, and I even tested for Fe (iron) and it was 0. Now here is where it gets rough for me.
I'll list these three seperate 'cause I think they are way out of whack. This test kit reads a low and a high PH. On the low test it reads over 7.6 and on the high range it didn't read a correct color. Where it was supposed to be dark blue it was purple and the darkest blue on the chart was 8.7 which tells me it was way over that, I think. The KH (alk) test was 170 which is way high also. The KH is supposed to be 105-125 according to the test instructions. So here is my question: Isn't pH a measuring scale with KH (alk) at the higher end and acidic reading at the lower end? And If this is true my pH is very high and would this kill the snails, clams and inverts but not the fish?
Now how do I lower the pH and get it within tolerance?
rascal,
All of the substrate is the same and some of the small rocks were out of friends reef tanks which are very healthy. All of the large rocks are original. Time will tell if it is copper but I tested it again and it tested negative. If the beads change I think we'll know for sure.
All of the substrate is the same and some of the small rocks were out of friends reef tanks which are very healthy. All of the large rocks are original. Time will tell if it is copper but I tested it again and it tested negative. If the beads change I think we'll know for sure.
The KH (alk) test was 170 which is way high also.
That is fine. I recommend 125-200 ppm CaCO3 equivalents for alkalinity. Forget the recommendation in the instructions. That might be FO, or it might just be nonsense.
I do not believe that you pH is likely too high. While not a fan of pH kits, usually you can get a ballpark reading. Reef aquarium pH is essentially never above 8.5 without dosing limewater or a large amount of other high pH additive.
That is fine. I recommend 125-200 ppm CaCO3 equivalents for alkalinity. Forget the recommendation in the instructions. That might be FO, or it might just be nonsense.
I do not believe that you pH is likely too high. While not a fan of pH kits, usually you can get a ballpark reading. Reef aquarium pH is essentially never above 8.5 without dosing limewater or a large amount of other high pH additive.
wmam
New member
Xenia can be fun to keep. I have heard that not everyone will have success in trying to keep it. If clam and polyps seem to be doing good then water should be fine as clams are filter feeders and filter the water somewhat. If water was bad then I would suspect the clam to have a problem quickly. The snail may have been harmed in transport or wasn't a healthy snail to begin with. Wondering if you have made so many water changes and there is no algae problems then why is the nitrates at 40? Taking out all the bio-balls would not have made your nitrates go up but rather if you had not had enough bacteria then wouldn't you have seen an increase in Ammonia and Nitrite? Nitrate being so high tells me you have plenty of bacteria but now wondering if maybe by you taking the rock out if you may have accidentally killed some of the microorganisms in the rock and caused a cycle where now your nitrates are high and who knows maybe this killed the snail.
As far as 8 months ago............ Wow, many things could have been the problem but I seriously find it hard to believe that after the tank had been up for 3 years and all was well that copper just decided to say ................ I think I will just leach myself out of whatever now after 3 years and tick somebody off.............. I am no scientist but this seems far fetched to me. A number of things could have happened then and would have been nice to have known about it then but as one once said we should cry over spilled milk so we should look at doing our best to get the system under control now for the future.
How deep is the sand bed? I saw where you said that the substrate was all the same so can I assume that it is all the same grain size? what type is it? When you do water changes you said you vacuum the sand so do you stick the tube deep into the sand bed and clean it real good or do you just clean the top inch or so? Have you smelled the system to see if it smells bad like a rotten egg oder?
I have coraline out the yen yang as well and have had trouble with it taking over some zoa colony's I have. Is your coraline growing like that?
As far as 8 months ago............ Wow, many things could have been the problem but I seriously find it hard to believe that after the tank had been up for 3 years and all was well that copper just decided to say ................ I think I will just leach myself out of whatever now after 3 years and tick somebody off.............. I am no scientist but this seems far fetched to me. A number of things could have happened then and would have been nice to have known about it then but as one once said we should cry over spilled milk so we should look at doing our best to get the system under control now for the future.
How deep is the sand bed? I saw where you said that the substrate was all the same so can I assume that it is all the same grain size? what type is it? When you do water changes you said you vacuum the sand so do you stick the tube deep into the sand bed and clean it real good or do you just clean the top inch or so? Have you smelled the system to see if it smells bad like a rotten egg oder?
I have coraline out the yen yang as well and have had trouble with it taking over some zoa colony's I have. Is your coraline growing like that?
wmam, I sure agree with you and thought about that very same thing today. I am going to forget about the past and look at whats going on with the system now.
With what Randy said, I think the water chem is good. The clam and zenias are gone. The pollop rock only has a few open fingers left and is declining every day. So I'm still losing everything except the fish.
The sand bed is from 1.5 - 2" thick and I do suck out the nasty stuff out of the sand with an acrylic tube. It is the same grain size through out and is crushed shell substrate. I don't have any rotton oder at all. The coraline is just creeping not taking over even though there is nothing for it to take over, there is nothing left but fish and crabs.
Randy, I did dose it with kalc to get the Ca up but didn't do anything lately because the ca level was good. Could this have brought the pH up?
With what Randy said, I think the water chem is good. The clam and zenias are gone. The pollop rock only has a few open fingers left and is declining every day. So I'm still losing everything except the fish.
The sand bed is from 1.5 - 2" thick and I do suck out the nasty stuff out of the sand with an acrylic tube. It is the same grain size through out and is crushed shell substrate. I don't have any rotton oder at all. The coraline is just creeping not taking over even though there is nothing for it to take over, there is nothing left but fish and crabs.
Randy, I did dose it with kalc to get the Ca up but didn't do anything lately because the ca level was good. Could this have brought the pH up?
Randy, what would you recommend for pH? A meter? If so, how accurate are they if they are calibrated?
A properly calibrated pH meter is more than accurate enough. Certainly good to 0.1 pH unit or better.
This article has more:
Measuring pH with a Meter
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2004/chem.htm
A Comparison of pH Calibration Buffers
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-02/rhf/index.htm
Randy, I did dose it with kalc to get the Ca up but didn't do anything lately because the ca level was good. Could this have brought the pH up?
Adding kalkwasser (limewater) will raise pH for a few days (or less), but the effect of it and all other additions disappears as CO2 re-equilibrates.
A properly calibrated pH meter is more than accurate enough. Certainly good to 0.1 pH unit or better.
This article has more:
Measuring pH with a Meter
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2004/chem.htm
A Comparison of pH Calibration Buffers
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-02/rhf/index.htm
Randy, I did dose it with kalc to get the Ca up but didn't do anything lately because the ca level was good. Could this have brought the pH up?
Adding kalkwasser (limewater) will raise pH for a few days (or less), but the effect of it and all other additions disappears as CO2 re-equilibrates.
Thanks Randy, I just ordered a meter. The cost of the meter will pay for itself in the long run.
There is one thing I totally forgot to mention because it happened a while back. My wife mentioned it this morning and I never thought about it but I tried to make a chiller during the summer and used a thermocouple to control the pump. I put it in the sump and it was a copper piece. it wasn't in for very long, maybe a week and I don't think it would let off enough copper to matter but now I'm not so sure. This was the time I started having trouble keeping the inverts and snails. But I have done so many water and charcoal changes I can't believe it would still be in there. Even though I tested for it, and it was negative, could there be small traces still in the system? And if so, can I ever get it out?
There is one thing I totally forgot to mention because it happened a while back. My wife mentioned it this morning and I never thought about it but I tried to make a chiller during the summer and used a thermocouple to control the pump. I put it in the sump and it was a copper piece. it wasn't in for very long, maybe a week and I don't think it would let off enough copper to matter but now I'm not so sure. This was the time I started having trouble keeping the inverts and snails. But I have done so many water and charcoal changes I can't believe it would still be in there. Even though I tested for it, and it was negative, could there be small traces still in the system? And if so, can I ever get it out?
It was a bare copper wire in the tank for a week?
Yes, a bare thermocouple which is about the size of a small cigar. I forgot about that and I know it was stupid but I thought copper liquid was different than copper fixture. It was in the sump for a week or so. I can't really remember because the chiller didn't work so I took it out. I can't remember exactly how long it was in the sump. I do remember the problems started shortly after that though but why doesn't the test show the copper? I ordered a higher end copper test kit also. It tests to .01 so maybe it will show something. If there is copper can I ever get it out?
