NO3:PO4-x conversion to vinegar

[tmz]

Possibly -- it seems plausible, but:

1. I've never heard of a bacteria that cannot use acetate as a carbon source and many, many (nearly all) bacteria can utilize ethanol.

2. We have no idea what the denitrifying bacterial strains found in a reef tank "prefer" in terms of carbon source.

I agree we don't and it may vary from tank to tank. .Anecdotally , however, reports of reactions by reef organisms including corals and anemones to more complex carbohydrates vs ethanol or acetic acid are not favorable. Sugar for example has caused browning and recision ,ime and that of others.

3. I've seen no evidence that mixture =diversity even in wastewater publications. And there is a LOT of research in that area compared to reef tanks.

More carbon sources might mean more diversity. But if that is the case, why stop with two sources? We could be using methanol, isopropanol, benzoic acid, citrate, PHAs, etc etc.

Some folks don't ,they use bio plastics, sugar ,ascorbic acid , rice potatoes, soy, milk etc. Often with poor results in terms of coral vibrancy and overall tank health.

Varied and more complex sources of carbon will involve more bacterial activity before acetate is available . " Bacterial diversity" is a term that often implies a benefit but is more of a potential negative ,imo, in dosing organic carbon.
I prefer to take the shortest least complex routes to acetate .

Ethanol does involve an extra step via bacteria(AABs) vs vinegar . I'm not sure this oxidizing bacterial acitivity is of any benefit but doesn't seem to do any harm.The primary reason I've been using it along with vinegar for a long time is not for any increased bacterial diversity occurring but because ethanol lends itself to bolus dosing without the pH spikes vinegar brings when bolus dosed. The bolus dosing not only suits my routine but it seems the bacteria in my tanks function well with the burst afforded by a bolus dose , likely in terms of increased anaerobic activity.

 

[droog]

Guys,

How do you ensure the carbon source does not evaporate over time?

My dosing is automated with a dosing pump but the container I use for storage (filled about once per month) has a very loosely fitting lid. Just realised the ethanol and/or vinegar may be evaporating from my container.

-droog

 

[alexander_ktn]

I don't use a doser but I would guess that evaporation from a covered (even loosely covered) container won't be an issue.

If it was an issue you would very probably smell it in the room as a strong alcohol scent (I am so confident with that since I can smell the ethanol evaporating from my office tank for hours after dosing, and those are minuscule amounts).

 

[tmz]

I bolus dose so can't answer definatively ; most use covered containers when slow dosing with just a feeder tube poked through the cap.

 

[luisagos]

I am going to assume this is ok to use?

Going to make a batch this weekend, this was the only thing I could find.

Smirnoff Triple Distilled Vodka

 

[alexander_ktn]

Yes, should be ok (though I used cheaper stuff) - what's important for mixing is to know the alcohol concentration.

 

[luisagos]

Yes, should be ok (though I used cheaper stuff) - what's important for mixing is to know the alcohol concentration.

Thanks, but i couldn't find anything else that was not flavored or said distill on it.

Cost me around $16 for 1.75 liter at walmart.

 

[alexander_ktn]

Ok then it's cheaper than buying alcohol here in Europe.

If it's 80 proof or 40% alcohol content you can use the recipes like they are described here in the thread without any need for adapting them.

 

[dartier]

Yes, should be ok (though I used cheaper stuff) - what's important for mixing is to know the alcohol concentration.

Thanks, but i couldn't find anything else that was not flavored or said distill on it.

Cost me around $16 for 1.75 liter at walmart.

Holy cow that is cheap. Here in Canada this ...

costs $107.95 (plus 13% tax) for 3L.

So I use this ...

costs $21.50 (plus 13% tax) for 4L.

Dennis

 

[biom]

I don't want to discourage denatured alcohol users but they should choose type of denatured alcohol very carefully - in different countries alcohol is denatured with different chemicals some of which could be toxic or dangerous for our reefs - pyridine, petroleum oil, acetone etc. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

 

[dartier]

I don't want to discourage denatured alcohol users but they should choose type of denatured alcohol very carefully - in different countries alcohol is denatured with different chemicals some of which could be toxic or dangerous for our reefs - pyridine, petroleum oil, acetone etc. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

Totally agree with biom here. The denatured alcohol products should be considered unsafe and only used if you can get the needed information as to what the ingredients actually are (and you confirm they are safe).

For the Captain Phab alcohol pictured I called the manufacture and spoke to their chemist. Their product contains 90% ethanol and 10% methanol with a hint of food safe blue colouring.

Other products could have anything in it.

Dennis

 

[tmz]

Methanol at 10% of the small amount of dosing we do should be ok, though it is toxic paricularly to humans.

The Smirnoff should be ok . Is is 80proof /40% alcohol? ther are a number of 20 proof /40% alchol vodka products.
I get Bartons plain distilled charcoal filtered vodka at the liqour store @ $14.13 for 1.75 liters,btw.

 

[luisagos]

Its 80 proof at 40% alcohol.

Says it triple distilled, and x 10 filtered.

 

[tmz]

Sounds good.

 

[luisagos]

What will be the new ml dosing, when I switch from NoPox.

I am doing 8 ml per day on 200 gallon with NoPox.
I have 0-2 nitrate with the 8 ml with NoPox, so its about perfect.

Now that I am switching to this; 700 ml 5% vinegar + 300 ml 40% vodka recipe.

What would be my new ml per day will be with the new recipe.

Just want to make sure i get close enough.
Thanks.

 

[alexander_ktn]

I'm not sure we know the exact concentration of Nopox, but I'd start with the same dose (8ml) and observe.

 

[s2nhle]

Wow, very good information here. I will it a try on my system. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Fant4]

Hi, if i have pure alchool 95° and glacial acetic acid what is the dose for a solutions of 1000ml?

25 ml AcOH
157 ml alchool
818 ml water

is right? Thanks

 

[shermanator]

Hi, if i have pure alchool 95° and glacial acetic acid what is the dose for a solutions of 1000ml?

25 ml AcOH
157 ml alchool
818 ml water

is right? Thanks

Yeah, that is close enough... the acetic acid is somewhere between 2.5 and 3%, so anything between your recipe above and the one below is close:

30 mL glacial acetic acid
210 mL 95% ethanol
760 mL RODI water

 

[msderganc]

Hi, if i have pure alchool 95° and glacial acetic acid what is the dose for a solutions of 1000ml?

25 ml AcOH
157 ml alchool
818 ml water

is right? Thanks

At this point, why wouldn't you double or triple the strength?