NO3:PO4-x conversion to vinegar
- Thread starter llandegfedd
- Start date
jason2459
Well-known member
Thread of great interest. Thank you.
Currently dosing just over 96ml of Vinegar daily but I ran into 1.75L bottle of Barton Vodka for just over $10 at Walgreens and figured what the heck. Going to cut back my vinegar dosing that I do through out the day and bolus dose some of the Vodka.
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RobTheReefer
Moved Elsewhere
Holy crap. That's a lot. My tank was covered in hair algae. I started dosing 8ml (total dose) of the rodi-free no3po4x version on 12/18 (went to 10ml on 12/23). Hair algae is gone as of now and can see my beautiful rocks again, 12/27. I have about 90-100 gallons of water.
I didn't have accurate tests at the start, but I'm now undetectable no3 and po4 on red sea pro and hanna. Going to order up some FlorinGro to raise up the nitrates, but keep dosing carbon to keep the phosphates down. Hopefully my chaeto will start growing again as well. Plus, some, not all, sps are a little pale.
jason2459
Well-known member
TMZ could you check out this post to give me a sanity check that I've got the numbers and thinking right.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24213506#post24213506
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24213506#post24213506
What are your numbers now. Its a 240g DT or total volume? How much LR do you have?Also what do you feed?
Thats quite a large tank. Carbon dosing alone may work for you; depending how you feed you may need other export mechanisms also.
In my 120g I noticed a gradual reduction in NO3 after about a week. PO4 came down quickly but hit a plateau as the PO4 in the rock started to leach (it forms an equilibrium). It was several months before carbon dosing alone got me under 0.1 ppm PO4. You may get some cyano for a while, but it goes away again.
Hopefully you can setup a dosing pump to automate the dosing for you.
-droog
Thats quite a large tank. Carbon dosing alone may work for you; depending how you feed you may need other export mechanisms also.
In my 120g I noticed a gradual reduction in NO3 after about a week. PO4 came down quickly but hit a plateau as the PO4 in the rock started to leach (it forms an equilibrium). It was several months before carbon dosing alone got me under 0.1 ppm PO4. You may get some cyano for a while, but it goes away again.
Hopefully you can setup a dosing pump to automate the dosing for you.
-droog
biecacka
Active member
240 gallons. 200-250 lbs rock. 21 fish and I feed a cube a day for now because my nitrates are so high. Around 75 or so. P04 was about 1.5 last time I checked, a month ago but will test again his week. Now that I have a skimmer online. I also put a marinepure block in he sump (the larger one)
Corey
Corey
Corey - You might want to create a new thread for your tank issues. You may get more input that way than on the homebrew NoPoX thread.
If this were my tank, and there was an algae problem, I would look at this as a two stage process.
1] Knock-down nutrients to reasonable level [3 weeks]
2] Stabalize to new levels [6+ months]
Step 1
- no3
Series of massive (40-50%) water changes spaced 3 days apart OR
Sulphur de-nitrator
- po4
Lanthanum chloride dosed carefully into fine filter sock or diatom filter for po3 OR
GFO in a reactor changed regularly (every few days)
Step 1 repeats until PO4 <= 0.1ppm ; NO4 <= 10ppm
Step 2
- Carbon dosing and optionally
- little GFO running in a reactor
If there is no algae problem step 1 could be skipped. Some systems run successfully at quite high nutrient levels, don't go to all this effort just to chase a number unless there is an actual problem.
Your levels are very high. Dosing is not bad. The marinepure I think will also help. But it feels like you're "taking a knife to a gun fight". I'd bring a machine gun (step 1), and then swap to the knife...
-droog
If this were my tank, and there was an algae problem, I would look at this as a two stage process.
1] Knock-down nutrients to reasonable level [3 weeks]
2] Stabalize to new levels [6+ months]
Step 1
- no3
Series of massive (40-50%) water changes spaced 3 days apart OR
Sulphur de-nitrator
- po4
Lanthanum chloride dosed carefully into fine filter sock or diatom filter for po3 OR
GFO in a reactor changed regularly (every few days)
Step 1 repeats until PO4 <= 0.1ppm ; NO4 <= 10ppm
Step 2
- Carbon dosing and optionally
- little GFO running in a reactor
If there is no algae problem step 1 could be skipped. Some systems run successfully at quite high nutrient levels, don't go to all this effort just to chase a number unless there is an actual problem.
Your levels are very high. Dosing is not bad. The marinepure I think will also help. But it feels like you're "taking a knife to a gun fight". I'd bring a machine gun (step 1), and then swap to the knife...
-droog
biecacka
Active member
Yea Jon, and for me he numbers would bounce back quickly. Part of the problem was 21 fish which require a lot of food and create waste and a skimmer that pulled nothing out of the tank. The skimmer has been replaced so a few larger water changes might come into play but more than anything just the normal sized ones. Then some carbon dosing, marinepure block, hopefully bring this back into good standings.
Corey
Corey
RobTheReefer
Moved Elsewhere
In my opinion and experience, a big arse skimmer, scarlet reef hermits, trochus snails and diy no3po4x will clean up any tank...quick. My tank is a 10 year old tank inflicted with chronic LARS, and that recipe worked for me.
I know there are people who say skimmers aren't necessary, but, man, a properly sized skimmer along with vinegar and vodka works miracles.
I know there are people who say skimmers aren't necessary, but, man, a properly sized skimmer along with vinegar and vodka works miracles.
Been offline for a few days.
11 ml 80 proof vodka and 25ml 5% vinegar are the same amounts per gallon of water volume I use . The optimal amount will likely vary some from tank to tank.
FWIW, I bolus dose 30ml of vodka an 80ml of vinegar to the 650 gallon system in the am. The pH drop from the vinegar is relatively small( - .1 ) and brief 15 minutes or less at that relatively small amount(.12 ml per gallon) . If I used more vinegar I'd spread it out.
I also dose 6 ml vodka in the pm . The heterotrophic bacteria are thought to split every twelve hours or so. The pm dose is a shot at sustaining actiivity .
11 ml 80 proof vodka and 25ml 5% vinegar are the same amounts per gallon of water volume I use . The optimal amount will likely vary some from tank to tank.
FWIW, I bolus dose 30ml of vodka an 80ml of vinegar to the 650 gallon system in the am. The pH drop from the vinegar is relatively small( - .1 ) and brief 15 minutes or less at that relatively small amount(.12 ml per gallon) . If I used more vinegar I'd spread it out.
I also dose 6 ml vodka in the pm . The heterotrophic bacteria are thought to split every twelve hours or so. The pm dose is a shot at sustaining actiivity .
I think you'll see a reduction in PO4 in days. Nitrate can take months ,sometimes. I recommend reducing nitrates before starting carbon dosing. Then a miantenace dose keep them low as the bacteria take ammonia without allowing it to produce them.
jason2459
Well-known member
Thanks a lot for the validation. I'm waiting to get back an Avast peristaltic pump I sent back under warranty for repair and will switch to using it as its rate is much faster at 25ml/m then the 1.1ml/m I'm using now. Once I get that I was going to try splitting into two doses. Interesting about the 12 hour timing. Maybe I'll split up the dosing to occur at 11am and 11pm.
Since I have the two mixed and automated would you suggest the bulk of it dosed in the am like you do now or evenly split between the am and pm?
I think your dose is about half of what I use in total organic carbon; not too sure of exactly what your are dosing though. In any case it PO4 and NO3 are zero it's obviously enough for your tank. Are other reduction methods also in use; gfo for example? I think your corals and chaeto would benefit from a little more phospahte and nitrogen.
I do a larger proportion in the am given higher pH and photosynthesis and CO2 uptake vs a smaller amount at night,.FWIW.
The image has been deleted. It was not working anyway and may have been spam.
To clarify ; there is an analyses of the product offered earlier in this thread by shermanator and his grad students
