Noisy Vortech DrySide FIX!!

[dahenley]

There are 2 bearings in your vortech, YES

You are taking it apart to fix it, and since it is apart and your in there, YES you should replace both.

On bearings, most of the bearings listed were for the MP40. A few pages back,someone did a MP10 and posted pictures as well as bearing sizes for the MP10.

If you find that part, it will say which bearings you need.

Also, when you take yours apart, look for washers and make sure you put them back where they go.
have fun

 

[slammin]

here it is guys the write up it fairly simple close to what the mp40 is but the only difference is that the base plate will need to be cut off and when you done reglued.

If your worried about cosmetics need not do the repair yourself as your going to do some damage to the casing

Fist you need to peel the sticker off ( once you do this it will void your warranty )



then you will see the four screws that hold the motor to the shell i removed these first when i was taking it apart but found out that the plastic on the other side just doesnt come off so easily

I would recommend leaving those on. First your going to need to cut off the plastic cover on the side that touches the glass. I used a kitchen knife for this because i can flex it a bend it without worrying about it shattering like an x-acto or box cutter might.

http://images9.fotki.com/v1618/photos/6/210466/9213694/IMG_0355-vi.jpg

now you remove the 3 motor screws. I used a torks t15 but i believe its a 2.5 or 2 allen key

be careful with the power cable as it is flimsy and the wires are thin. Just shimmy the motor out being careful not to pull on the cable.

First remove the magnet from the motor this is the hard part, you might need a second person for this part, what your going to need is the allen key on one side and have someone hold the motor and useing a flat head screw driver hold the shaft on the oppisite side of the magnet as you unscrew the magnet off. There might be what you think is debris on the magnet whatever you do don't clean it off it will help center the magnet upon reassembly

then your going to remove the 3 screws that hold the 2 motor end caps together

then you pry the cap off ( the side with out the power cable) which shouldnt be to hard to reveil the internals and the first of two bearings. you will cafefully pull the center section which is the magnet and the bearings. (careful with the magnet that part is proprietary and will not have a replacement)

carefully remove the two bearings (sorry i dont have a picture of this procedure as i got kind of angry that i couldnt remove it easily)

this is what i did i had a cheap fork laying around i bent one of the prongs out of the way and put the fork between the bearing and the magnet, being careful not to hit the magnet i slowly rocked the bearing back and forth and it slowly came off. The bearings aren't pressed on or anything its just and exact fit. You can also try the rocking motion with just using yout fingers. I could after i took it off the first time.

Once your done just replace the bearings and start the reassembly process. When i took mine apart i noticed there are 2 washers and a spring washer at the bottom for anyone that drops it or it sticks the the magnet. the order is washer, washer , spring.

when its time to put it back together find where the plastic fits together best and using a little bit of epoxy( i used a two part) and a toothpick dab and cap it and your done

thanks for the reply Dahenley, i've reread this a few times, not being able to find the correct bearing model#. although he does mention in one post that he used 687zz, I was just curious if both bearings are the same model?

 

[dahenley]

687 is your bearing number.
On the MP10, both bearings are the same. (the MP40 uses 2 different bearings)

I see where you got confused, he speculated the other bearing was what he needed. (he was the first to do the MP10, so he thought it was the same)

Them MP10 uses totaly different bearings then the 40.

hope that helps.
(page 5 at the top few posts, have the confirmation to this.)

If you do it, let us know how it goes.
Good Luck!

 

[dahenley]

also, the letters after the Bearing Number just speculate if it has metal or rubber seals or what not. so the actual number is the important part. not the letters. (although, if you get the option, i would get a "sealed" bearing verses a "sheilded" bearing.

 

[dahenley]

MP-40 BEARINGS
(note, the MP-40 uses 2 differrent beraings. 1 for the front and 1 for the rear)

"698 - XXX"
and
"607 - XXX"

are the bearing numbers. the letters after the number describe the seals/sheilds that they come with.
there is no letter or number for ceramic. its the same number, just labeled as ceramic.

the size of the 607 bearing is " 7 X 19 X 6 "
and
the size of the 698 bearing is " 8 X 19 X 6 "


MP-10 Bearing
(note, the MP-10 uses 2 of the same bearings)

"687 - XXX"

the size of the 687 bearing is " 7 x 14 X 5 "


are the bearing numbers. the letters after the number describe the seals/sheilds that they come with.
there is no letter or number for ceramic. its the same number, just labeled as ceramic.

i hope this helps explain to everyone what they need.

 

[slammin]

Thank you very much dahenley!

clears it up completely, i'm going to locally source the bearings and will post how it works out.. <- hoping for the best here!

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

you may get lucky and find them at an rc hobby store or a skate shop.

 

[dahenley]

dont use skate shop bearings.......
They arnt HIGH speed rated. (i did this when i re-built a blueline 10 pump on my CA reactor, and THEY WERE SOOOO LOUD!!!!

skate bearings are made for lower speeds/rpm's and are made to be lubed frequently...

(just my experience with them.... )

 

[jeffreylam1132]

Awesome thread! Great job, dahenley.

 

[FiReC]

I tried a couple of these in my mp10

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7471

still loud as hell. if anybody knows any quiet bearings for the mp10 let me know please!

as a side note.. one of my original bearings (thing is only 1.5 years old!) was totally bound up.. and takes lots of force to rotate it compared to a good bearing. I believe this is why its loud + plus I was never able to crank it up all the way without the driver powering down.. probably because of a disconnect overload from the bad bearing! at least with the new bearings I can crank it up all the way.

 

[dahenley]

my bearings got quieter after a little use. (breaking in i guess)

Is your vortech noisy, or loud.
Noisy like the bearings are growling, or loud because the motor is on the outside where you can hear it.

If you take the wetside off, and run the vortech, is it more quiet? if so, it can be a miss alignment. or noisy wetside.

 

[FiReC]

when its just the dryside guts.. even without the circular magnet.. it still has a 'whiny' noise that is nowhere near to what it was new.

 

[dahenley]

do you have a local bearing place?
if so, ask if they carry "NTN" bearings in that size. they are good quality bearings.
I have gotten some mass manufacturered beraings from a local place, and they were nasty loud, but i have never gotten a NTN bearing that as noisy.
its a thought.

 

[FiReC]

what kind of places in texas there sell bearings? i'm sure somebody in phoenix has bearings I just don't know who?

 

[dahenley]

If you have a mom and pop auto parts store, they can help you. (New parts stores can't help you unless you have a VIN number)

Depending on how industrialized your city is, just look up bearings in the yellow pages.
There were 2 major ones back home, and here in Lubbock, there are 10 or more. (Has to do with industry and farming )

Hope that helps

 

[psykobowler]

I love this thread. Now, if someone could do a mod that will improve the wetside and not have it break every so often it would be a real money saver. I just could not believe ecotech is not saying or doing anything to improve the wetside on the mp40. They got the wetside right with the mp10 and mp60. Why not make one for the mp40? I guess they want to make more money on the parts. In fact, they raised the price on a lot of the parts in their replacement store. It just does not make us a happy customer.

 

[Gill_bucket]

Yikes!!! I have read this is a sure fire way to burn out the motor on you vortec.

i had an interesting issue....

i had a rather noisy dry side. i got me some bearings(ended up being ceramic after all), put them in, put it on.... 10x louder than before(not nasty knocking loud, just a louder wirring sound). i was mad. let it run on full blast all night to see if it would quiet down, nope. woke up this morning, took it apart 2 more times... nothing looked out of place. so i switched one of my 3 washers from one side, to under the spring washer (testing something) same noise.

then i took it off and let it run when NOT attached to the glass. it was silent. put it on the glass, noisy. hmmmmm. so i started to move the wet side ever so slightly away from the glass, it got quieter. so i remembered when i first set it up and measured my glass, i set it to one thickness more than i measured my glass to because the wet side fell off twice. started her back up at the correct thickness, viola! no noise. i guess the increased magnet force pulling the dry side motor was enough to put stress on the bearings to cause noise. phew. user error. now i can enjoy my vortech finally!

 

[dahenley]

I love this thread. Now, if someone could do a mod that will improve the wetside and not have it break every so often it would be a real money saver. I just could not believe ecotech is not saying or doing anything to improve the wetside on the mp40. They got the wetside right with the mp10 and mp60. Why not make one for the mp40? I guess they want to make more money on the parts. In fact, they raised the price on a lot of the parts in their replacement store. It just does not make us a happy customer.

How many wet-sides have you gone through?
i still have my first one. (its as old as this thread)
I have never had a problem. (except once) i had a snail climb in and stop the propeller, which spun the magnet on the screw and melted the screw. less then 20$ worth of parts and i was up and running... and has been ever since)

I clean my wetside 2 times a year. take it out, and take the wetside apart, and soak it in PURE vinegar over night. then, i use lots of Silicone Grease on everything when it goes back together. (i even put it on the screw that goes through the impeller so it all comes apart easily in 6 months when i do it again)
When i put the wetside and the Dry side together, i put my ear on the glass, and move the wet side. you can physically hear when its lined up. you cant hear it away from the glass, but if your ear is on the glass... you can deff tell. its the best way to do it in my opinion.


Please, let me know your experience.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

wow. you're one of the few that have had their wetside for so long. it seems like every 6 months I have to replace the inards of the 40's wetside. the problem I see with them is that the prop and magnet aren't balanced and because the prop shaft is only supported on one side it wears the bushings very quickly. I have 2 extra wetsides that I need to replace the inards so I can be ready to replace them with the dirty ones. they are a pain and would also like to see a new wetside that has the shaft supported on both sides. who knows maybe they are working on it.

 

[dahenley]

maybe im' just lucky........

but next time anyone re-builds or takes their wet side off for a clean, when you put it back on, place your ear on the glass and do that method for centering.
(because i cant place my ear on the side glass where my MP40 is, i place my ear on the front. the harmonics are trasfered so you can still center it. if your like me and dont have enough room to place your ear on the same side as the glass.)


If you want to try and center it your way, and the place yoru ear on the glass and move it to see if it helps or if you can hear a better adjustment, then feel free to post and let me and others know.

and if you do it your way and then my way, and mine is better, feel free to let others know as well.
that way more people have better luck.


BUT, i do agree, that a double supported wet-side could help. but even if not centered well, it can wear on the wet-side