Noodling a 500 Gallon Upgrade

jeremyjoslin

jeremyjoslin

New member
Long story short: I moved this fall and tore down my old 125g. I'm keeping 200lbs of LR alive in the basement while we remodel the downstairs over the next 2 months. When the remodel is done, I'm cleared by management to resume the hobby. I've been planning a 300DD with full basement fish room and accoutrements, but a local hobbyist happens to have an Envisions 500 gallon (92" x 36"/44" x 30" peninsula) acrylic tank I'm considering purchasing instead. The tank is sitting dry and in fantastic condition (see notes). I'm trying to play devil's advocate and consider reasons why I shouldn't buy the 500g instead of my planned 300g.

Points I'm pondering:

- Size. This thing is a monster. My contractor is sure he can reinforce the floor adequately to place in living room. I may need to cut a wall early where I was planning on changing a regular door to a sliding door anyway in the Spring.

- Shape. It's a peninsula design so it's not fully symmetric. One end is almost 4' while the other end is only 3'. This means I can't square it up exactly into the corner in the LR I where I'm planning to put it- see attached. Anyone else try fitting this square peg into a round hole before? I can't imagine it will look off by that much (8" between the wall and tank on the end sticking out (not in the corner).

- Acrylic. The tank just had 2 sides thoroughly buffed out to new condition. Of course, the OTHER two sides are the ones that will be facing outward in my setup so I'd want to spend the time buffing these 2 sides. I've done some preliminary reading, and it looks doable, but time-consuming. Otherwise, I'm all in favor of this size tank being acrylic.

- Stocking. With a 300DD I could imagine a few islands in the center where I practice my SPS husbandry (relatively new to SPS but long-time enjoyer of LPS). With a 500g I'm wondering if the tank will look dumb and empty unless I drop $10k in corals to "fill it in." Comments on this? I'd like to stay with a relatively open aquascape to exaggerate the size of the tank (without making it look empty). As for fauna, I'm going to go heavy on tangs and maybe a pair of "reef-safe" triggers. I'll add an obligatory humongous RBTA and pair of clowns. My heart wants to be able to add a lion fish, but my brain says all the baggage this beauty brings would just cause too many water quality problems for SPS (am I right?)

- Equipment. Great. Now I need to reconsider all my equipment and upsize most of it. I honestly think I could get away with my 300g skimmer until my bioload increases past a similarly stocked 300g tank bioload equivalent (right?). And who says I need to have high PAR in every inch of the tank either? I could just light for viewing in most places, and center high PAR fixtures over the few islands of corals. Consumables would be increased, but I could live with that.

- Humidity. Would I need to seriously consider some sort of HRV piped out of my living room, or am I going overboard. The dry, winter air of upstate NY could use some extra humidity. What about the summer though (we have central air)?

Would love some comments on these issues as I noodle them this week. This would be a big project, and I don't want to pull the trigger if I haven't thought everything through.

Jeremy
 

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Hi, Jeremy! Nice management approval.
125 to 300 is a big jump let alone 500!
Why the heck oddball aquarium shapes are built I don't know. Too bad it's wider at one end. OTOH, it might not be a big deal. Humidity will definitely need to be monitored and controlled. This 500 Envision sounds like a perfect fish only aquarium and a so so choice for reef aquarium. If you wanna grow SPS I'd go with the 300 DD. Fish and softies would be great in that 500.
 
Gary Majchrzak said:
This 500 Envision sounds like a perfect fish only aquarium and a so so choice for reef aquarium. If you wanna grow SPS I'd go with the 300 DD. Fish and softies would be great in that 500.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking this as well. I'll admit, my intent was to learn/practice keeping SPS but I'm not married to it. I haven't seen many great FO tanks as far as "looks" go, but maybe with some softies and an occasional LPS???...
 
Couple things that come to mind:

positives:

- size - I like large, the 300DD is large, this is bigger. tons of fish potential here for some of the larger species! it would be great to see it fill up, though it might take a while, so be patient!

- water flow - more size, more pumps, welcome to the MP60s, granted you should do that for the 300DD also.

- with this size comes turnover & pumps. at 500 gallons you should be moving about 2500GPH which calls for a commendable pump - is this going to be a basement sump? if so commit to dual return pumps, granted you should do that for the 300DD also.

negatives:

- height, i love the DD tanks, their height is a touch more than I care for and this is even more. for SPS you are surely into 400watt halide territory

- acrylic - I watched a friend buff his, that sealed the deal, I'll never have an acrylic display - frag tank yeas, just not a display
 
the 500g is probably a bad idea. if you willing to go into knowing it will most likely fail, have fun. i could think of worse ways to blow a bunch cash. if it were my house, i'd either plan a practical system, or have a good exit stategey.
 
Acrylic would be the showstopper for me, I'm not a fan of scratches. But some people don't care or aren't as bothered, so it's really a personal thing. And I think I'm missing the part about it not being square, so maybe that's a deal breaker, too.

Otherwise, I'd go for it. Bigger is better.

Many of your issues or concerns really depend on your overall approach to a tank's actual size vs. how you choose to use it. This is hard to explain in type so bear with me here - but you kinda hit on this yourself so I think you'll get what I'm saying. Just because a tank is 500g doesn't mean you have to treat it like 500g. If you choose your aquascaping and stocking appropriately, you can spend no more than you would on the 300g, but end up with something more interesting and desirable.

My 360g is a fledgling example of this. When stocking it and choosing equipment, I've basically "pretended" like it's a 180 or 240. I'm spending way less than a typical approach to a 360g might cost, but I'm getting something way more interesting than you could create with a 180, because I've got more space to work with. Equipment needs - lighting, filtration, and so on - are mostly tied to your stock choices, not the size of the aquarium.

Everyone loves a heavily stocked tank, but a tank with "open" rockwork and less dense stocking can look really dramatic (IMHO at least), especially in a larger size like you're considering.

As far as spending $10k in corals to make it not look dumb - instead, consider this approach - spend a minimal amount in frags and enjoy the process of growing your own reef over the next 3 or 4 years. It's not instant gratification but it's an approach that keeps things interesting in the long-term, which is important with that kinda investment.
 
Blurry said:
Couple things that come to mind:

positives:

- size - I like large, the 300DD is large, this is bigger. tons of fish potential here for some of the larger species! it would be great to see it fill up, though it might take a while, so be patient!

- water flow - more size, more pumps, welcome to the MP60s, granted you should do that for the 300DD also.

- with this size comes turnover & pumps. at 500 gallons you should be moving about 2500GPH which calls for a commendable pump - is this going to be a basement sump? if so commit to dual return pumps, granted you should do that for the 300DD also.

negatives:

- height, i love the DD tanks, their height is a touch more than I care for and this is even more. for SPS you are surely into 400watt halide territory

- acrylic - I watched a friend buff his, that sealed the deal, I'll never have an acrylic display - frag tank yeas, just not a display
Click to expand...

Yeah, Blurry. All these good points are fine with me.
Yes, on patience.
Yes, on MP60's.
Yes, on dual returns from basement.
Yes, on a 400w halide over the main coral island, and then a few LED's around it. They will be hung high in the canopy for even spread. I'd only plan to grow corals under the halide, with the rest being a FO area.
Good thing I'd only need to buff one side.
 
block head said:
the 500g is probably a bad idea. if you willing to go into knowing it will most likely fail, have fun. i could think of worse ways to blow a bunch cash. if it were my house, i'd either plan a practical system, or have a good exit stategey.
Click to expand...

Specifics? I'm going out on a limb with some honesty here.
 
der_wille_zur_macht said:
Many of your issues or concerns really depend on your overall approach to a tank's actual size vs. how you choose to use it. This is hard to explain in type so bear with me here - but you kinda hit on this yourself so I think you'll get what I'm saying. Just because a tank is 500g doesn't mean you have to treat it like 500g. If you choose your aquascaping and stocking appropriately, you can spend no more than you would on the 300g, but end up with something more interesting and desirable.
Click to expand...

YES, YES, YES... This is what I was trying to say. Thank you.
I appreciate that you've tried this and can attest it's not a stupid idea I'm having. I really want to go for the dramatic open water look.
 
Jeremy, I think all of the major points have been made. Micromanagement would then be the deciding factor if you went for it. I would LOVE to see a huge reef in Syracuse with large specimens most of us can't or shouldn't keep. As mentioned above, acrylic would be THE negative for me. Aside from that, the type of reef you'd like to keep is the real question.

The logistics of having to rapidly correct a problem in a tank of that volume can be prohibitive. Having enough water and salt mix on hand to combat a newly discovered irregularity might require a room all to itself. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. The old addage of "the bigger the volume of water, the more stable" is true. But, if it becomes unstable, regardless of biotype, whoa mamma.

Again, I give you a big thumbs up for considering it, just thinking out loud, as I'm sure that's what you're looking for with this thread. Where's 450reef when we need him? Grant, you wanna chime in on this one bud?
 
jeremyjoslin said:
Specifics? I'm going out on a limb with some honesty here.
Click to expand...

500 g is a big f/n tank. there's a reason you just don't see people running big tanks for long. it's a lot of work and cash. kent is a great example. you'll have to look long and hard to find someone with more faith and dedication. he has own forum, makes his own salt/chem/tank/diy equiptment. he has a large group of reefers willing to help/support him. in the end , it wears you down. it takes a special kind of devotion to maintain lg systems. everything is just harder and more expensive. with young children/career it's even harder . a 500g tank of poo isn't going to fly with mama. cutting corners is not going work. don't kid yourself, it's going to be hundreds of dollars a month and hours out of your week to maintain.
 
Again though, a lot of that depends on your approach. If you build a complicated system with lots of gadgets, you've got lots to maintain. If you stuff it full of corals and fish, you'll need lots of money in food and supplements. If you DIY lots of stuff, that means you'll be doing your own "support" when things go wrong.

On the other hand, if you stock lightly, take steps to reduce evap, and carefully choose your approach to equipment, you can have a lower level of effort in terms of time and money.

I'm spending about the same time maintaining my 360g as I did the 60g "temporary" tank I've had for the last year, and maybe $20 more per month in consumables (salt, supplements, food) and $30 more in electricity per month.

I'm not saying that other people do big tanks wrong, or that my approach is "better," it's just that there are different ways of doing things, depending on what your goals are. If long term time and money commitments are an issue for someone, they need to take that into account when they design their system, regardless of size. And that might mean compromising on stock choices or stock density, for instance.
 
Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. Just read through 450reef's posts from awhile back. Yikes...

I'm going to think about doing a FOwSofties and maybe a few hardy LPS in the tank. I think SPS in this size tank is probably not realistic for me. Maybe a nano in the office to fulfill that interest??

Does anyone know someone who has done a nice large FO tank that doesn't look brown? If I were to go FO+ would anyone see any problems with that? Mark's point is well taken as well, but probably not as important a consideration if leaving out the fragile species, right?
 
i hear you on cutting some costs. 8ft tank + basement sump. we're already past 500g. it's going to need a beast pump running 24/7. heaters suck. it's going to take bunch. 2000w+ 24/7. they will most likey burn out before a year, or be replaced yearly. bulbs / at least 3. rodi water out the ying. a undersized skimmer won't help. salt will be at least a box a month. evap/ humidity
will need to be addressed. on the low end, a dehumidifer will need to run often. i suppose you could get by without doseing two part or chemicals. i would'nt try it. it's dumb things like plumbing supplies that add up. or having to upgrade the electrical panel to support the huge draw. i'd love to see this happen. i've just read hundreds of big builds that go south.
 
it takes a special kind of devotion to maintain lg systems. everything is just harder and more expensive. with young children/career it's even harder... cutting corners is not going work. don't kid yourself, it's going to be hundreds of dollars a month and hours out of your week to maintain.

Block Head, you're right on with that. I'm recovering from my 3rd crash (precipitated by life's other demands) in a decade, which brings me back down to earth, when I think about putting in a mega tank. Spending $ isn't enough, you've got to have time too.
Jeremy-Best of luck, I'm cheering for you!
 
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