Not treating SPS for Red Bugs, Anyone?

[menard]

blstravler
Whats wrong w/ that tank ? RB ?
Looks great man.

 

[clkwrk]

How's this for a healthy non mille/tort/chips/pocci/BN/stylo/monti

 

[clkwrk]

BTW I left these photos out because I knew the mille/tort comments would follow.

 

[blstravler]

clkwrk-

Amazing tank, thanks for you input.

I agree that in dealing with the bugs a few times they are only an issue when other issues arise in your tanks, ie water quality, etc.


King Kong-

If you can't get certain crustaceans out of your tank, then it can be difficult to balance the moral issues of "which is more important" (sps or the inverts). I can understand not wanting to continue killing your inverts attempting to treat, however you shouldn't cast aside the FACT that they are affecting some of your SPS corals.

LOL

Is it a FACT? Do you see my corals on a daily basis like I do, is your tank exactly the same as mine? My corals are doing great and grow like weeds. Why would it be unfair to show pictures of coral and say look how good they are doing with red bugs, this is the exact same measuring stick you would use to say, "look at how good my corals look and I don't have Red Bigs" Would it not?

Jiggy-

although ive never had them, i think anything parasitic should be treated. IMO, i think you are looking for people living with red bugs to justify the fact that u dont want to go through the hassle of treating your tanks.

First off let me say Jiggy that I have had the bugs before- and I have treated them before as well as treat new corals before I put them into my tank, the hassel is not the issue. The issue is, and if you had read my second post, which it looks like you didn't, instead just making a pointless comment about something you have NO experience with, when I have stated several times I do not want this to get ugly...and now it will..

What I did say in my second post was...

So regardless I am about to go in for some surgery and I think I am going to leave the bugs alone this time. In a few months time from now when I would be able to do all of the major work needed to kill them off I might, but if my corals look like they do now, nothing is changing.

This is the issue, I am about to go into the hospital for many weeks for major surgery. The issues does not have a thing to do with me not wanting to deal with a hassel, it has to do with me putting my health and having a an entire organ removed in front of the treatment of red bugs for a few weeks; or possibly for good b/c I have had them before and killed them off before and they never did any damage in the first place. Who knows maybe you also know more about my health then I do.


So for now my tanks remains as is----

I will post after picks in 3 months form now when I get home from surgery and physical therapy. This should show any impact, but like I said I think I have had them for about 2 months because that was when my health issues started and I stopped examing my corals up close on a daily basis.

For everyone that did post pics of their tanks and there feed back I apprecaite it, if there is anyone else that is livinng with the bugs please post and let us knwo your experiences.

Sorry for the b!tching but I am under a lot of stress right now with my pending surgery in 5 days.

 

[clkwrk]

blstravler- Thanks ! your tank look great also

 

[menard]

Clkwrk
Tank is filling up nicely......looking better and better every time I see it. Pretty soon they'll be on top of one another, fused all together like I experiencing now.

 

[blstravler]

Menard-

Thanks for the kind word on my tank, hope my is as nice as your one day...

No effect on my tort or mille----

I need to take some more pics of them they have grown so much since these were taken.

 

[exoticaquatix]

i just noticed them in my tank and am guessing i have been living with them for at least a few months now. the onlt coral i can find them on is my lokani and it looks just as good now as it ever has. if it starts going down hill i will consider treating the tank but for now i just dont see a reason. like menard said these bugs have been here for much longer than we have know about them.
it has been said many times that as long as your water quality is up to par there is really no reason why you cant live with them.
in nature these bugs probably inhabit most of the colonies on any affected reef and have yet (to my knowledge) been recognized as a source of problems. thats because they have evolved along side the corals they prey on. there is a balance that can be acheived as demonstrated by many tanks, not just the ones pictured here.
all that said, when i move all my corals to my 120 i will be treating them and all my rock, minus all the inverts. not because i have seen any damage caused by them but because it will be conveinient and provide me with a little lee way if i should experience a problem.
-nick

 

[King-Kong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7998966#post7998966 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blstravler
King Kong-

LOL

Is it a FACT? Do you see my corals on a daily basis like I do, is your tank exactly the same as mine? My corals are doing great and grow like weeds. Why would it be unfair to show pictures of coral and say look how good they are doing with red bugs, this is the exact same measuring stick you would use to say, "look at how good my corals look and I don't have Red Bigs" Would it not?

So I guess you just skipped over the part or the meaning. Let me say it again: posting a photo of a mille and proclaiming your tanks resilience to RBs is not an indication of anything.

That aside, read up on what Eric Borneman has found in researching their behavior. RBs are programmed to avoid killing their host, and when they arent seen with their heads buried in the flesh and digging (yeah that sounds harmless) they can be found trying to locate healthier hosts whom can further supply them their needs.

http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Research.html

 

[menard]

In the ocean.............".Nothing goes to waste."

If one, or two becomes ill, injured or dieng, the cleaners steps in and finish the job, thats how it always works.

One great example is what U see in our tanks..............PEACE

 

[blstravler]

I guess we are all screwed...

Evidence exists that resistance to ectoparasiticides occurs, and the development of doramectin is an example of a product developed because of resistance. I have found many references to suggest that arthropods can become desensitized, resistant or immune to various pesticides or parasticides. This has important implications in the use of drugs and chemicals to treat Tegastes infestations. It is very important to make sure that any treatments impart a 100% kill rate using a given substance. If resistance genes are turned on or evolve, the treatments now available may soon become ineffective as the parasites are transferred between tanks. My most recent experience whereby dose levels that had previously effected a 100% kill rate and left some copepods alive may be an indication that some resistance is already developing.

Maybe just another reason not to treat or not to treat to many times...

 

[Chicago]

help me out on this related thread... will interceptor kill these.. i have red bugs for year or so... but havnt done the treatment.. large tank large water exchange... and so far sps look good.. but these gastropod.......

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=8142903#post8142903

 

[blstravler]

According to the link-

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rs/index.php

The conclusion is -

"In many reef tanks, some of the most abundant animals are these small snails that often appear to be calcareous tube worms. The larger species are rather rare in aquaria, but the abundance of the larger vermetids on some Indo-Pacific reef flats is truly striking, and gives an indication of the amount of the appropriate detrital or particulate food available. Similarly well-adapted for reef aquarium life, the smaller species are sometimes prolific to the point of being nuisances. However, in most tanks, they simply remain an example of a small, but highly successful, component of reef biodiversity. "

So I am not sure they are even that bad....

 

[clkwrk]

If you wanna kill them then stab them with something or cover with epoxy. Intercepter wont kill them.

They aren't bad unless their web covers sps then it can cause problems.

 

[Chicago]

not bed but looks like somo of the sps are covered in heavy spider webs.. and yes the coral although it does not die does not thrive and does not looke well covered in web...

these guys can definetly mutliply... they have gone from oneor two last year to dozens in my tank

 

[taflaw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7998552#post7998552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk


In the end it is our responsibility to QT or treat our incoming corals . So if an unwanted infection happens its our own fault not the person/etailer/wholesaler. Since our tanks are our responsibility.

Agree 100%. Long-term ramifications for treating red bugs with dog worm medication is unknown and I personally seen acros thriving with red bugs in the system. Until scientific data states that red bugs harm acros, I am not willing to kill all the other inhabitants like shrimp, amphipods, copepods, and crabs in my system. I am all for QT or treating incoming corals .

 

[poknsnok]

I have no scientific data suggeting red bugs harm acros. I had them. i treated and most if not all of my corals look better and grow faster. that said the proof is in the puddin and if my tank had the color and growth of menard's I would target feed the red bugs . so obviously they can be lived with. My case of bugs never killed any corals but they definitely retarded growth, color and polyp extension on my tri colors especially. and Im a stickler for water quality (1025, 450ca, .01 phos (colorimeter).. 0 nitrate, 1300 mag, 9kh) and all has been stable for months. So maybe as has been stated there are bad bugs and good bugs?? I dont know. All I know is my corals are happier without them and 6 weeks after I have had no negative consequences so far.

 

[Stoney Mahony]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8004690#post8004690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by blstravler
I guess we are all screwed...



Maybe just another reason not to treat or not to treat to many times...

Just a reason to treat at a relatively high dosage. They don't stop spraying for misquitos, thwirps, nematodes, or a million other insects just b/c a few develope resitance. You find a stronger, more effective pestacide or method of bilogical control. I guarentee you guys interceptor is not the only thing that kills Red Bugs. Has anyone tried Dimilin(Diflubenzuron)???? Theres tons of other pestacides specifically designed to kill parasitic copepods, people just havent tested them. I am not convinced that interceptor is going to be the favored treatment forever, but for now it works.

Ill post a pic up as soon as I get home of my Yellow tort which was severly effected by the RB's. Didn't Meynord say that he has had some frags that don't fare good with rb's but his colonies do just fine?? People keep missing the point b/c they have RB's and awesome tanks. The fact is that there are plenty of people on here that have them and they ARE effecting corals, just not ALL corals. Even Borneman says it, I mean cumon! Unless you can show me a before RB's and after RB's close up/macro of every single coral in your tank, I don't believe it. I could pick out 30 different SPS in my tank that couldn't care less but I could also VERY easily pick out the 5 or so that were heavily infested. It's like people have them and just don't want to admit that any(not even 1) of their corals have any problems with the RB's. People would be trading them and innoculating there tanks with them if that were the case. It would just be one more micro critter for the complete reef....unfortunately thats just not the case. Sorry, but after having them, your not gonna change my mind. Theres nothing like first hand experience.

 

[clkwrk]

I agree nothing like first hand experience and I have got rid of tthem and did live red bug free for some time . The difference has not been enough to make me treat my display again .

Sorry after having them and getting rid of them to having them again latter down the road with no problems your not going to change my mind .

 

[blstravler]

\

I agree nothing like first hand experience and I have got rid of tthem and did live red bug free for some time . The difference has not been enough to make me treat my display again .

Ditto, I have treated twice, three doses each time and massize water changes after each one.; because that's fun to do on a 180. And I can say the only difference I have seen is a bunch of dead acro crabs and dead red bugs. But some how they made a come back, even though I did Interceptor dips and QT'd the corals.

Stoney Mahony--

It's like people have them and just don't want to admit that any(not even 1) of their corals have any problems with the RB's. People would be trading them and innoculating there tanks with them if that were the case. It would just be one more micro critter for the complete reef....unfortunately thats just not the case. Sorry, but after having them, your not gonna change my mind. Theres nothing like first hand experience.

So if my first hand experience is different and I can live with red bugs does that make me wrong then?